# And yet ANOTHER Ebay pet peeve **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 25, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639 "2005-01-25T20:52:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/21 "2005-01-27T03:47:51Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I think you forgot the next step > > 1. Blowero tells the seller to piss off, he can have it at $26, relist the item, or send a second chance to someone who will pay $25 or less. Surely this is the answer, Blowero? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/22 "2005-01-27T08:02:11Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Surely this is the answer, Blowero? Um, was I asking a question? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/23 "2005-01-27T13:23:28Z")
Chill, dude. What I mean is, isn’t the annoyance you describe avoidable by doing what Cheesesteak suggested? ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/24 "2005-01-27T16:08:50Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > You can see the _bids_, but not the maximum bid. The maximum bid is shielded. The only time it becomes public knowledge is when someone outbids you, because the system will automatically bids for you up to your maximum amount. But if nobody outbids you, your maximum amount is known only to you. > > I’m pretty sure that’s how it works. In every completed auction I’ve ever seen, the high bid is equal to the selling price. People quite often win auctions for _less_ than the maximum amount they entered, but the bidding history never shows a final bid that’s higher than the selling price. Ah, gotcha. Right, you can normally see the max bids of everyone _but_ the winner of the auction. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/25 "2005-01-27T16:37:13Z")
> [@](#): > > **blowero** said: > So why should I have to pay more just because Bidder B is too stupid to retract his bid before the auction ends? Then there’s the possibility that Bidder B is not stupid at all. Bidder B is a friend of Auctioneer, and Auctioneer has already arranged with Bidder B to drive the price up by making high bids, but then not actually take the item after the auction ends. It’s probably not always stupid and flakey, but probably sometimes downright deliberate. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/26 "2005-01-27T18:38:16Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Chill, dude. What I mean is, isn’t the annoyance you describe avoidable by doing what Cheesesteak suggested? It’s just that we _already covered_ this. I already read and responded to what Cheesteak said. Your question has already been answered. Of course I could email the seller and ask him to sell the item to me for less\*. That is beyond obvious, and isn’t the point. I’m not asking for advice. If I just wanted advice, I would have posted in GQ. \*However, it’s no guarantee that he _will_. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/27 "2005-01-27T20:45:23Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > It kind of goes hand in hand with my _other_ Ebay pet peeve: The fact that they aren’t serious enough about discouraging non-paying bidders. In a _real_ auction, your bid is a contract. If you win a live auction, you better believe you’re gonna be paying them. Really? I have been to Live auctions, and I failed to notice “Vinnie “the Kneecap” Capitutu” sitting there with his tire iron. :dubious: They _could_ sue you, but unless you were bidding on a zillion dollar item, they won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/28 "2005-01-27T23:41:34Z")
Why not just make it so the person who retracts the bid has to pay the difference between their bid and the previous bid? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/29 "2005-01-28T07:40:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Really? I have been to Live auctions, and I failed to notice “Vinnie “the Kneecap” Capitutu” sitting there with his tire iron. :dubious: They _could_ sue you, but unless you were bidding on a zillion dollar item, they won’t. I went to an auction where they required all participants to submit their credit card number ahead of time. I’m thinking they didn’t do that for no reason in particular. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/30 "2005-01-28T08:59:41Z")
yes, but a charge is hardly valid without your signature. You could easily & successfully dispute it. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/31 "2005-01-28T18:33:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > yes, but a charge is hardly valid without your signature. You could easily & successfully dispute it. You can dispute _any_ charge, whether it bears your signature or not. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/32 "2005-01-28T19:17:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > yes, but a charge is hardly valid without your signature. Every purchase I make on Amazon is invalid? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/33 "2005-01-28T22:39:46Z")
> [@Rysler](#): > > Every purchase I make on Amazon is invalid? What a moron. :rolleyes: There are special rules for Mail Order- where you get to dispute unless the merchant can show you recieved the item. We weren’t talking about Mail Order- we were talking about an in person live auction- although that might not be so obvious to the functionally illiterate. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2005, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/34 "2005-01-29T03:51:15Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Then there’s the possibility that Bidder B is not stupid at all. Bidder B is a friend of Auctioneer, and Auctioneer has already arranged with Bidder B to drive the price up by making high bids, but then not actually take the item after the auction ends. No. The seller just has a million of the items for sale, and will make the most money by offering the losers the item at the price they were willing to pay, no additional listing, waiting, answering stupid questions. It makes almost no sense to “shill” bid in the hope of getting someone to take a 2nd chance offer, as the seller will still have to pay listing and final value fees based on the winning bid amount. If you can price descriminate and sell 2-3 items with one listing, getting the maximum amount from bidders A and B, plus B’s high bid plus one dollar, the seller wins, as well as bidder A and B in my book. They got the item at the price they were willing to pay and didn’t have to play the “pissing contest” with last minute high bids. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2005, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/35 "2005-01-29T09:30:17Z")
> [@gatopescado](#): > > No. The seller just has a million of the items for sale, and will make the most money by offering the losers the item at the price they were willing to pay, no additional listing, waiting, answering stupid questions. It makes almost no sense to “shill” bid in the hope of getting someone to take a 2nd chance offer, as the seller will still have to pay listing and final value fees based on the winning bid amount. Well, that’s not true. Leaving aside the matter of how much it’s actually occurring, it _does_ make sense to do it that way. Your point about the final fees doesn’t make any sense. The fees are a _percentage_ of the final value; they do not _completely negate_ it. Hypothetically, if say someone was set to win your auction for $20, and your shill succeeded in bidding him up to his max of, let’s say $50, and he buys your item as a second chance offer, you still made more money than you would have without the shill. Yes, even including the fees. Or more succinctly: If X\>Y, then [X minus Z percent of X] \> [Y minus Z percent of Y] if Z\<100. > [@](#): > > If you can price descriminate and sell 2-3 items with one listing, getting the maximum amount from bidders A and B, plus B’s high bid plus one dollar, the seller wins, as well as bidder A and B in my book. They got the item at the price they were willing to pay and didn’t have to play the “pissing contest” with last minute high bids. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/36 "2005-01-29T16:20:54Z")
Shill bidding for second chance is a waste of time, because your bid isn’t binding, as it is with a regular auction. You don’t have to honor a second chance offer. It doesn’t pay for me to shill an auction that doesn’t require you to pay up. Does it happen? I guess, but there seems to be much more predictable methods of using a shill. I use the second option all the time, as a method of maximizing my profits with a minimum of work. I have an item that I think will be a big seller, but I’m not sure how much, so I only list the one as a teaser. Turns out I’m right, in fact the item that I listed at $15.00, ends at $40, with 20 different bidders. It’s win-win. What do I do? I contact all the second chancers and offer them the item at their max which is still less than the final bid was. If you’re the guy that bid at $20, you’re getting a bargin. I win because I don’t have to deal with relisting and tipping my hand that I have another 10 and i don’t have to pay listing fees, just the final value AND I have people who have a vested interest in my product. You win because you’re not paying $40. Ebay wins because they still get some fees, but don’t have to host the auction again. It’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/37 "2005-01-30T09:15:32Z")
That sounds dishonest to me. ---
**Author:** ![Selkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Selkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Selkie)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/38 "2005-01-30T16:59:53Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I just wish that sellers would look up the definition of ‘rare’. > WOW! Sand from the Sahara! RARE! After said sellers finish looking up “rare” they should proceed directly to “unique.” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/39 "2005-01-31T00:25:23Z")
> [@Ruby](#): > > And while we’re on the subject, > L@@K > is NOT spelled correctly. Certainly not. Any fool knows it’s spelled LQQK. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639/40 "2005-01-31T01:24:40Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Shill bidding for second chance is a waste of time, because your bid isn’t binding, as it is with a regular auction. > > I use the second option all the time, as a method of maximizing my profits with a minimum of work. > > If you’re the guy that bid at $20, you’re getting a bargin. I win because I don’t have to deal with relisting and tipping my hand that I have another 10 and i don’t have to pay listing fees, just the final value AND I have people who have a vested interest in my product. Exactly what I meant to say if I wasn’t an, or “a” moron. 😉 It works, its good and it makes money for ebay and the seller and “saves” money for low-bid buyers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-yet-another-ebay-pet-peeve/286639.md?page=3)