# And you guys always think you're getting ripped off at the repair shop **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 19, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597 "2016-03-19T23:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/21 "2016-03-21T02:01:52Z")
Of course they’re ripping you off, that’s what they do! They can make up anything; nobody knows! “Why, well you need a new Johnson rod in here.” Oh, a Johnson rod. Yeah … ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/22 "2016-03-21T02:18:43Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Of course they’re ripping you off, that’s what they do! They can make up anything; nobody knows! “Why, well you need a new Johnson rod in here.” Oh, a Johnson rod. Yeah … can you come up with a trope which isn’t 40+ years old? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/23 "2016-03-21T03:07:01Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > can you come up with a trope which isn’t 40+ years old? Are you posting from the future? It was only 21 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/24 "2016-03-21T03:16:53Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > can you come up with a trope which isn’t 40+ years old? That’s from a Seinfeld episode. So it’s probably only 20-25 years old. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/25 "2016-03-21T04:31:55Z")
> [@Mr.Greenjeans](#): > > In my experience, it won’t cover anything that’s likely to happen. Anything that does happen will somehow be excluded from the warranty. > [@jz78817](#): > > if it’s a factory extended warranty (i.e. it came from Toyota) it’s probably pretty good. If it’s a third party service plan, those can be a minefield of gotchas. It would be fun sometime to break out the exact warranty and let dopers take a look at the terms, see what they think. I bet $1 I am not the guy on here that knows the most about warranties. Coincidentally, tomorrow I take my new car to the dealership where I bought it for its first maintenance checkup and software upgrade. ~11000 miles, only a rice-grain sized chip of paint missing from the edge of the driver’s door, and it always says my tire pressure is too low, even after I have fully inflated the tires. People say that is because it is winter and the air in the tires contracts, but I wonder… It will be interesting if I am billed for this. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/26 "2016-03-21T16:43:57Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > can you come up with a trope which isn’t 40+ years old? Seinfeld is timeless 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/27 "2016-03-21T16:49:34Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > can you come up with a trope which isn’t 40+ years old? There is a difference between a joke and a trope. Though jokes probably do age faster than tropes. So a 20 year old joke probably is 40 in trope years. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/28 "2016-03-21T18:15:33Z")
I wrote about a similar repair procedure on my car back in 2010. The supposed culprit was the “thermal expansion valve”, which was clearly the most important part of the car, inasmuch as they appear to put one on the ground and build the rest of the car around it. The valve was a $35 part that required seven hours of labor to replace, including removing the dash and both front seats. And my AC still leaked afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/29 "2016-03-21T18:26:43Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > It seems like the heat exchanger for the air conditioner needed replacing. > > Well, this sounds like a simple job; the exchanger costs a little over $100, so it shouldn’t be to expensive to put in a new one. Yeh, right. > > These are the steps required: > Remove dashboard. This requires that the center console (where the gear shift stuff is located) be removed. This requires that both front seats and the floor carpet be removed. > > The following two photos show what the car looked like after these steps were completed. Looks like a grenade went off in the car. > > The poor guy is going to pay well over a thousand to get his air conditioner working again. > > [http://s564.photobucket.com/user/Trygolyte/media/20160318\_140931.jpg.html?o=1](http://s564.photobucket.com/user/Trygolyte/media/20160318_140931.jpg.html?o=1) > > [http://s564.photobucket.com/user/Trygolyte/media/20160318\_140921.jpg.html?o=2](http://s564.photobucket.com/user/Trygolyte/media/20160318_140921.jpg.html?o=2) Air conditioning? Probably should have just sold the car to someone in Seattle and bought a new one. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/30 "2016-03-21T19:08:49Z")
> [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](#): > > That’s from a Seinfeld episode. So it’s probably only 20-25 years old. it’s much older than that. “Johnson rod,” “muffler bearings,” “headlight fluid,” “framistan,” etc. have been around for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/31 "2016-03-21T20:02:07Z")
I’ll be 60 in a couple of months, but I’m still blonde, and I’m still a single female. Every time my car goes in to the shop, it’s a battle. My dad taught me a few things about cars when I was a teen, but cars have changed so much that most of what I know is useless. I know just enough to toss a trade word in here or there to hopefully defray a little of the predation heading my way. A year ago, I had my car in for the third time for a recurring issue. After looking it over for 3 hours (or at least having it in their facility for 3 hours), I got a long spiel about what they had finally found to be the issue. I asked them to write down the name of the big expensive part for me. I then grabbed my smart phone and punched the info in. I was rewarded by the information that this particular pricey part was NOT included in my vehicle’s guts. After sharing this with the mechanic, I asked for my keys to leave. They made some noise about my paying a diagnostic fee, but I gave them the ‘look’ and tapped my phone again. I wished I’d had the presence of mind to do that the first time I took it in. I am very suspicious that they were playing me the first two times I took it in as well. Since then, the smart phone has become my best friend at the auto shop. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/32 "2016-03-21T20:29:04Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Modern vehicles are not designed with an eye towards preventive maintenance or repair, they just aren’t. The high level of fuckery involved with even basic repairs with components like… …headlights. I’ve literally replaced them in 90 seconds in the past, & that includes: 1. Open driver’s door. 2. Pull hood release handle. Now it pull a bumper or turn the wheel just so so you can access the plastic “screws” holding the wheel well in place. Don’t forget to procure a third grader because the hands /arm of anyone older is simply too large to fit in that tight space. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/33 "2016-03-21T20:42:20Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Looks about like most cars these days. The AC evaporator and/or heater core (they usually live inside the same box) is very deeply buried and requires an ungodly amount of disassembly to reach. > > Having to pull the seats is a bit more than usual but taking out the steering wheel and dash is normal. Replacing the blend doors in my pickup was billed as something like nine hours book labor. Quite different from my 1965 VW beetle. A lot of repairs required removal and replacement of the engine, which sounds time-consuming and expensive, but it only took 45 minutes (nominal) for each task. A 1.5 hour labor charge on the bill isn’t that hard to swallow. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/34 "2016-03-21T20:46:49Z")
Yes, I’d neglected to mention headlights. It sure seems like there would be a ready market for a truly bare bones vehicle, but it would not be in any kind of federal compliance with a gazillion mandatory this and mandatory that. For all that even a standard golf cart would suffice for many people as a secondary vehicle, if not their primary daily driver. I’m not leaving earth orbit, just picking up a loaf of milk and gallon of bread. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/35 "2016-03-22T00:11:33Z")
I remember when the biggest headache in headlight replacement was when the manufacturer placed the screw that released the headlight housing right next to the screw that adjusted the angle of the light. And to make things even more fun – most dashboards and interior trim pieces are now held in place with hidden ‘clips’ rather than screws, drastically increasing the amount of time required for disassembly. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/36 "2016-03-22T00:26:20Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > no, what it is is that cars are increasingly put together via sub-assemblies. one sub-supplier takes the heater core and A/C evaporator and installs it into the HVAC box/manifold. Then they ship those HVAC manifolds to the supplier who builds the instrument panel (dashboard.) The supplier assembles the entire dashboard and ships _that_ to the automaker’s assembly plant, where they just pull the completed dashboard off of the carrier and bolt it into the car. > > unless you’re a premium brand, making cars is a low-margin business. cars are designed to be rapidly and efficiently _assembled._ > > if it’s a factory extended warranty (i.e. it came from Toyota) it’s probably pretty good. If it’s a third party service plan, those can be a minefield of gotchas. This is true. And knowing just how the car is assembled often makes disassembly easier and faster. Case in point not long after the Volvo 850 was introduced there were some AC evaporator failures. Job paid 4 hours total and I had a couple of tech grumbling that it took over two hours just to get the dash out. I knew this was wrong, so I asked how they were doing the removal. Well we take off the dash top, remove the instrument cluster, remove the vents (and proceeded to tell me how they were disassembling the dashboard piece by piece in place.) I looked at them and told them I could have the dash on the floor in 20 minutes by myself. They called bullshit so out to the shop we went. I pulled out the repair manual and turned to the section on dash removal complete. It took 17 minutes and that was with hand tools and reading the instructions out loud. A modern car is the most technologically advanced piece of hardware \>90% of the public will either ever own or operate. Yet we are Rodney Dangerfield to the public. No respect. Look at some of the responses in this thread. Take **Airman Doors** for an example. He is grousing about paying $75 before being told what is wrong with his car. The perception continues to be that a technician should be able to diagnose the car with a glance from across the parking lot. Now I am very good at fixing cars but even with my level of expertise there are very few things I can diagnose from across the parking lot.\* Now **AD** I’m not trying to pick on you, but do also object that your Doctor charges you for an exam, and doesn’t diagnose you while you are checking in with the receptionist for free? That shop owner needs to be paid for his training, experience, tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in tools, not to mention rent, heat, lights etc. when you look at the entire picture $75 is cheap IMHO. \*flat tires. I can diagnose a flat tire from across the parking lot. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/37 "2016-03-22T00:49:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Look at some of the responses in this thread. Take Airman Doors for an example. He is grousing about paying $75 before being told what is wrong with his car. The perception continues to be that a technician should be able to diagnose the car with a glance from across the parking lot. Now I am very good at fixing cars but even with my level of expertise there are very few things I can diagnose from across the parking lot. yep. there _are_ shady shops out there, but in my experience, when someone says “I was ripped off!” they really mean “I have no idea how a car works but something was wrong and the shop said it was really expensive to fix.” Whatever **Airman Doors** does for a living, I’m pretty sure he’s not all that eager to work for free. but when you complain about a “diagnostic fee,” that’s what you’re doing. you’re expecting the mechanic to work for free. 'cos the time spent on trying to find the problem you’re complaining about is time not spend on billable labor actually fixing someone else’s car. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/38 "2016-03-22T04:27:58Z")
Its _free_ to go without A/C. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/39 "2016-03-22T05:46:25Z")
To update, I paid nothing for my diagnostic checkup at the dealership. They corrected the air pressure sensor (a tire was actually overinflated, which means the air pressure gauge on the gas station air pump is bad, but it would probably cost $300 for someone to come out and fix that :rolleyes:) I have to call back another time about the chip in the paint, their paint guy just wasn’t in. Chips in the paint may not be covered by warranty… But that’s two lifetime visits so far, both free. The first time, the car did not have the clear protective bra off the lot, I had to schedule a visit to put it on. It is a little bit amazing how exactly perfectly it was applied! ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597/40 "2016-03-22T14:51:43Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Look at some of the responses in this thread. Take **Airman Doors** for an example. Take [mine](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19195149&postcount=14) for example. How was my experience NOT a ripoff attempt? I paid whatever the diagnostic fee was (about $50 at that time) for them to tell me pure lies. I got nothing for my money! **Rick** , you sound like you run an honest shop. If you were in my area, I’d take my work there. But you’re not. You must realize there are dishonest shops, and we on the outside can’t tell the difference until after the visit, if at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-guys-always-think-youre-getting-ripped-off-at-the-repair-shop/749597.md?page=3)