# ...and you wonder why Bush thinks he needs so much security. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 19, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091 "2003-11-19T14:00:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/41 "2003-11-19T17:42:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\*Northern Ireland is a different matter but you said Ireland. \*\* To be fair, I suspect that **Boo Boo Foo** is referring to the Irish Rugby team. Which is yet another different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/42 "2003-11-19T17:54:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FairyChatMom \* > \*\*I can’t work up any rage at anyone who can breach “security” - seems to me they provide a valuable service. In the last 30 years, I’ve spent a lot of time on a lot of military bases, and for the most part, the security is a joke. > > I have a barcode sticker on my van window and a base sticker on the windshield and I stop to show the guard my ID. Never once has a guard looked to see if anyone is crouched in the back of my van - not even during the high security conditions. And if I used a boat, there are lots of places I could land on the river side of the base and get onboard undetected. > > As far as I can see, “security” is an illusion. Anyone bound and determined to undermine it can do so fairly easily. \*\* Preach it, sistah! Aaron goes to daycare on an Army base. When I go through, I have to stop and show my ID. It’s the rare guard who actually bothers to see if the ID matches the person driving. OTOH, my car has been searched rather intensively. During the last search, the guard asked me to open the gas-tank door so he could check behind it. My stuff has been tossed. There have also been times, especially during the winter, when I was asked to turn the engine off while the guards searched. No big deal, except that I had Aaron in the car, and did not want him exposed to freezing temperatures. I asked if I could at least keep the heat on and was told no. Finally, I raised the windows on the threat of a call to the military police office to complain that my son was being placed in dangerous conditions. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/43 "2003-11-19T18:02:43Z")
Psst…Robin. I think you forgot to sign out **Airman’s** username. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/44 "2003-11-19T18:08:21Z")
I think I did, too. Normal families yell at each other over leaving the toilet seat up. We have issues with signing out of the SDMB. Robin ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/45 "2003-11-19T18:21:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*You’re joking, right Elvis? Please tell me you are. \*\* Not really. What you’ve been doing hasn’t worked all that well lately, has it? Or are you admitting that your blokes are just crap anyway so it doesn’t matter? ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/46 "2003-11-19T18:36:07Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by SentientMeat \* \*\* [quote] “Have you got a fag?” > [@](#): > > “Yes, dear. _Chaaaarles!_” \*\* Brilliant. Topical, timely, and laugh out loud funny. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/47 "2003-11-19T19:25:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duke \* > **ruadh, Queensland and New South Wales couldn’t compete in the World Cup in soccer, cricket or any other sport without the consent of the relevant governing body.** Yes, hence my statement that they could do so “if Australia agreed to it”. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/48 "2003-11-19T19:27:23Z")
Oh, duh, just realised you meant “governing body” as in the governing sporting organisation. Anyway I stand by what I posted - it’s in the FIFA rules. I’ve linked to it previously a couple times on this board. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/49 "2003-11-19T19:28:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*Not really. What you’ve been doing hasn’t worked all that well lately, has it? Or are you admitting that your blokes are just crap anyway so it doesn’t matter? \*\* “My blokes”? I’m not from the UK. And for the record, England reached the same stage as the US did in the last World Cup, and got considerably further in the previous one. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/50 "2003-11-19T20:07:07Z")
**ruadh** : Really? So any nation could ask FIFA to split its soccer/football national governing board into individual states? Could we one day see a World Cup with entrants like Florida, Catalonia, Bavaria, and Bahia State? I’d like to see that link. (Other Dopers: I apologize for the Queen Mother of hijacks here.) ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/51 "2003-11-19T20:28:17Z")
Well, it’s not quite that simple; they’d have to actually withdraw from their parent country’s FA and form their own; but basically, provided this met with the parent country’s approval, FIFA would OK it. Which is why it’s unlikely you will see any of those places competing any time soon. Catalunya (along with the other Spanish regions) does have its own FA, but Spain won’t allow it to be recognised. Gibraltar has been involved in an ongoing battle for recognition. Puerto Rico was recognised a couple years ago. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/52 "2003-11-19T20:35:03Z")
I’m confused; what does this have to do with George W. Bush specifically? Would the security have been better if someone else was visiting the Queen Mum? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/53 "2003-11-19T21:12:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Galanthus \* > **Bah, I don’t think it’s often I find my self in agreement with Airman Door’s posts but I am here. This wasn’t done to test security, it was done to sell newspapers.** So you “think they should be charged as terrorists and put away for a long time”? If he was a actual security consultant and pulled this stunt, then sold his story to a tabloid later, would that make a difference? Why or why not? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF_ > \*\*Nothing they do serves the public interest, and in fact hurts the public by making the security people have to tighten up the security even more, leading to five hour waits for the metal detectors at airports and the like. They prove that people simply can’t be trusted to do the right thing. \*\* I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this. I think the public has a right to know that many “security” processes are horribly ineffective. If proper security processes, reasonably effective ones, take five hours, then this is what we should have. Doing what they are doing now is giving people a false sense of security. When more and more determined enemies(such as international terrorists) start popping up I think we’ll soon regret that we have the illusion of security instead of the reality. If the public chafes at five hour waits at security checkpoints then this becomes pressure to develop effective improvements to security check procedures. Better scanners which automate detection of suspicious objects, pre-screenings, etc. Sending your luggage to the airport a few hours in advance. There are things we can do to put more effective security in place and I think that is the direction we need to move in. Illusionary security may give people peace of mind and a convenient time at the airport, but it does fuck-all to stop real enemies. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/54 "2003-11-19T21:33:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trion \* > \*\*Wait. Because I _could_ do something I should be treated the same as someone who _does_ do something?? > > Shit, I could run around the town square naked. Better pick me up for indecent exposure. \*\* Does the Patriot Act ring a bell? ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/55 "2003-11-19T21:47:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*Well, it’s not quite that simple; they’d have to actually withdraw from their parent country’s FA and form their own; but basically, provided this met with the parent country’s approval, FIFA would OK it. Which is why it’s unlikely you will see any of those places competing any time soon. \*\* That’s true, but it’s not always a done deal. Greenland, as I recall, was put on the FIFA wait list even after the Danish FA approved their application. Of course, that might have resulted from FIFA’s concern that the Greenlandic FA lacked the necessary facilities to host international matches. Anyway, Greenland is now a full-up member of FIFA. The International Cricket Council, on the other hand, now that’s a completely different story. They not only rejected Wales’ application, but also initially kept out the Bahamas, arguing they should join the West Indies Board of Control. FIFA is quite unique among major sports, I believe, in routinely granting national association status to non-sovereign countries. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/56 "2003-11-20T03:37:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*I’m confused; what does this have to do with George W. Bush specifically? Would the security have been better if someone else was visiting the Queen Mum? \*\* It wouldn’t be there at all, considering that the Queen Mum died about a year or so ago. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/57 "2003-11-20T06:22:42Z")
What a happy coincidence! After **two months** on the job, this impostor cops to it – and exposes a major security flaw – just in time for the President’s arrival! Curious, though, why wouldn’t the intrepid reporter stay on through Mr. Bush’s visit? Great pictures in it for him, legendary exposé. Not exactly Woodward and Bernstein, but inches upon inches of good ink and free publicity. Then again, I’m sure the Secret Service would have discovered the charlatan prior to the President’s arrival. And I’m certain they **now** know _exactly_ which royal personnel should be allowed to get close enough to even look at the Security Bubble. As a side effect, the President’s supporters can simply say “see, we were right about the security all along.” The Democrats used to be able to spin a sound bite; now 2004 is looking like a very expensive run-up to President Clinton II. President Dean? Please. I saw better campaigning from Dukakis. It’s a war of attrition, kind of like a real life Godwin: the first guy to utter “fuck **you** , seriously!” loses. And as long as the average schlub has a comeback, the vote’s pretty safe.[ul]“Hey, Phil, CNN just interrupted the Michael Jackson stand-off for an update on the Britain trip. Going a little _Agent Smith_ on the security, huh?” \ “What’s Bush afraid of?” “Hey, _pal_, some guy dressed up as a stable boy got into the Queen’s panty drawer. We _need_ all that security, you jagoff liberal asswipe.” And so on.[/ul] Just a little too convenient. It’ll be interesting to see if Mr. _Parry_ [(funny, that)](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=parry) gets even a slap on the wrist, let alone any jail time. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/58 "2003-11-20T07:00:10Z")
> [@](#): > > **Airman Doors** : …and you wonder why Bush thinks he needs so much security. Well, not really. I understand that he needs an enormous amount of security. If I were George Bush, I wouldn’t go out in public. But his right to security does not trump the rights of Americans to protest his policies. _That’s_ what so many of us have been complaining about. Protestors who view his policies negatively are not made to stand far, far away for “security reasons.” Anyone who would do him harm would know how to solve that problem. He doesn’t want negative demonstrations for obvious reasons. He’s just a little bit more contolling about it than any President that I can remember. I don’t think anyone has said that Bush doesn’t need security. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/59 "2003-11-20T08:27:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* Pointing out the flaws in security is a _good thing_. Stifling the kid who says the emperor has no clothes does nothing to cover up the imperial backside. \*\* Isn’t that the hacker motto, though? “We’re only doing this to show how easily their ‘security’ can be breached”? IMO, anyone with the will can do just about anything they want. No security is foolproof. At some level, I think we all understand that. But breaching security ‘just to show it can be done’ should land your ass in a dark, dank hole for a considerable period of time. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091/60 "2003-11-20T08:56:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Isn’t that the hacker motto, though? “We’re only doing this to show how easily their ‘security’ can be breached”? The difference would be that a lot of crackers who say this actually _do_ wreak havoc. I’ve yet to hear of an intruding journalist who _actually assassinated_ a head of state, or the like, just to prove it could be done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/and-you-wonder-why-bush-thinks-he-needs-so-much-security/214091.md?page=4)