# Andor Season 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** disney-hulu\ **Created:** [February 24, 2025, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741 "2025-02-24T18:19:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/261 "2025-05-19T00:42:22Z")
Neither was because of anything they did. Luke didn’t make a decision that triggered his family’s death, and Tarkin probably would have destroyed Alderaan even if Leia had escaped. Its destruction was meant to spark terror and obedience, and thus from his perspective, was necessary anyway. But both Luthen and Lonni (and Cassian and many more) made choices that put themselves at great risk and created endless stress and anxiety. They weren’t just thrust into it with no choice but to fight - they made the choices to do so. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/262 "2025-05-19T01:12:57Z")
LHL were placed in a wizarding fantasy, set in space, for kids; they made the sorts of sacrifices standard for the genre. Good and evil without moral greys. Chosen ones with destiny. Andor was the story of real people with relatable traumas, building a rebellion. A gritty show set in the SW universe. But really a different genre. Like many here I immediately watched R1 and it holds up but clearly is not as far far away from fitting into that universe of wizards. Jyn and her parents are cardboard cutouts compared to even brief characters in Andor. Started to then rewatch A New Hope. And it is still … fun … but it is a Saturday morning cartoon fun. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/263 "2025-05-19T01:17:22Z")
Leia spent her entire adult life fighting the Empire, openly in the Senate and covertly with the Alliance. It’s not like A New Hope was her first day on the job. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/264 "2025-05-19T07:16:36Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > LHL were placed in a wizarding fantasy, set in space, for kids; they made the sorts of sacrifices standard for the genre. Good and evil without moral greys. Chosen ones with destiny. Right - thus the radicality of Andor. Being willing to totally upend the basis of the franchise. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/265 "2025-05-19T09:43:45Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Leia spent her entire adult life fighting the Empire, openly in the Senate and covertly with the Alliance. It’s not like A New Hope was her first day on the job. Sure, she sacrificed. It just seems small compared to Lonni and Luthen. Like the sacrifices politicians make compared to the sacrifices of soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/266 "2025-05-19T11:52:28Z")
> [@Tom Bisell](#): > > “That was gonna be an interesting moment. Tony [Gilroy] performed it - Perrin just saying, ‘I knew what you were up to. This whole time. They talked to me, every week they’d interrogate me, I never said a word. You didn’t trust me. You could’ve trusted me.’ And the heartbreak she would feel in that moment, of this guy that she’d pushed out could’ve been reliable. The double heartbreak of her walking away from her life, thinking she’s dropping this deadbeat husband who never supported her, and then the double dagger stab… But that’s head canon, that didn’t happen.” Ouch, that would’ve been heartbreaking. Tom Bisell is the screenwriter. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/267 "2025-05-19T12:16:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > [@DSeid](#): > > > > LHL were placed in a wizarding fantasy, set in space, for kids; they made the sorts of sacrifices standard for the genre. Good and evil without moral greys. Chosen ones with destiny. > > Right - thus the radicality of Andor. Being willing to totally upend the basis of the franchise. _Andor_, with _Rogue One_, certainly gives us a break from the self-fulfilling prophecy that is “the hero’s journey” (think _The Hero With A Thousand Faces_—self-fulfilling because so many screenwriters in the fantasy genre don’t even seem to want to try to imagine their way out of it, they just take it as a fact, making it something like the Wilhelm Scream’s unironic and even uglier cousin). He never finishes (or has any realistic chance of finishing) his quest to find his sister, and he never makes it back to the farm. Life if messy like that, and I think it’s better that they left it like that (but I wouldn’t say unresolved—I think the reality is that she and everyone else he knew on his home planet is dead and has been for a couple decades). > [@DigitalC](#): > > And the reason he refuses to leave anyone behind. I wonder what happened to Dedra after the empire is defeated… about a week later. Presumably it’s a bit longer than a week. Years perhaps (it’s not finally defeated until ROTJ). But my hope would be for something like the Nuremberg Trials. Just because she fell out of favor with the regime doesn’t mean she won’t still be recognized as an architect of genocide (I see the Wansee Conference has already been referenced upthread—I do highly recommend 2001’s _Conspiracy_ on Max for those who have it). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/268 "2025-05-19T12:53:35Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > He never finishes (or has any realistic chance of finishing) his quest to find his sister, One could argue that he does find _a_ sister, in the form of Jyn Erso. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/269 "2025-05-19T13:08:53Z")
Unless they have changed things in the current canon, Empire is three years after A New Hope and Jedi is a year after Empire. ANH is 19 years after Revenge of the Sith so the Empire lasted about a quarter of a Century. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/270 "2025-05-19T13:10:21Z")
And The New Republic lasted about as long (I hate the sequels more than ever now). I guess the question (fear?) now is, will we ever see _how many_ Bothans died to bring about ROTJ? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/271 "2025-05-19T13:14:44Z")
As requested: > **[Manuel Both-Hanz](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Manuel_Both-Hanz)** > > Manuel "Manny" Both-Hanz was an agent of the Rebel Alliance, a very short Human or near-Human. He had a romantic relationship with Mon Mothma, the Alliance Chief of State, and died while trying to get the plans to the Death Star II to the Alliance.... ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/272 "2025-05-19T13:24:20Z")
If Andor was the hero we need, Manuel Both-Hanz must surely be the hero we deserve! ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/273 "2025-05-19T16:02:36Z")
I think you are hitting on something… And that it’s not a competition. We don’t get Leia’s full story in any movie…but we know she was in the fight since childhood and through her entire life. She sacrificed relationships and happiness… Han came in for money and stayed for friends and then the cause. Luke was destined for this–literally being the only one able to kill the Death Star. Everyone’s path is different and we rarely know what every character is up to or what they experienced. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2025, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/274 "2025-05-19T16:09:23Z")
I don’t mean to be judging the OT characters - I still love them. I just mean that what Andor is doing is radical in a storytelling sense in how it makes us (or at least me) perceive the characters in the movies. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/275 "2025-05-20T00:31:17Z")
One of the things I appreciate about _Andor_ is that it is not, predominantly, a story about the chosen or even lucky few, but about the ones who don’t get to live to see the victory. We get so many moments with characters who don’t make it. Which is fitting given that the series is named for a character who we all know is fated to die before the events of the OT even take off. It’s hard for me to put into words, but _Andor_ makes me think of the people I have served with who didn’t survive. The people who gave good service but don’t get to enjoy the fruits of peace or the post-war dream. Not that they were incompatible with such a future. They just didn’t get to experience it. I’m sure there’s a more eloquent way I could say this, but like I said, hard time putting it into words. But what’s also hard, watching _Andor_, is knowing that my nearest character is probably Syril (if only he’d survived a few more moments to fully grasp the error of his ways: _who are you?_ indeed), and the people I served with and even the ones who died are more akin to stormtroopers and ISB agents than heroes of the rebellion. We are the Empire, and I have been its willing agent. 20 years ago, I’d have proudly manned the Death Star and received the order to “fire” with glee. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/276 "2025-05-20T14:03:18Z")
Luthen killing Lonni at first seemed a brutal unnecessary shock to me, but I then realized that Lonni revealing that he’d been secretly holding the multipass for a year, and also wanted to bargain for the safety of his family, made him instantly untrustful and undependable in Luthen’s view. Lonni would have folded in an instant under any interrogation, so Luthen really had no choice but to kill him to protect the rebellion. Overall, one of the best episodes of TV I recall seeing in years. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/277 "2025-05-20T14:13:28Z")
I’m not sure if it was Luthen or Kleya who killed Lonni. We saw them both go out armed before the meeting. And while it’s brutal that Lonni was killed, it probably protected his family from Imperial retribution. To the ISD, it looks like he was a loyal agent who was killed by Dedra to keep her treason hidden. That is, he was murdered after finding all the incriminating intelligence she had accumulated. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/278 "2025-05-20T14:30:54Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > And while it’s brutal that Lonni was killed, it probably protected his family from Imperial retribution. To the ISD, it looks like he was a loyal agent who was killed by Dedra to keep her treason hidden. That is, he was murdered after finding all the incriminating intelligence she had accumulated. No - Krennic, at least, knew very well that Lonni was a traitor. The whole reason he went after Kleya was that he suspected Lonni had passed intel on to Luthen and her. That said, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t want it to get out that ISB had _two_ traitors, and besides, Krennic had too much on his plate to waste time harassing some random family. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/279 "2025-05-20T14:35:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Krennic, at least, knew very well that Lonni was a traitor. That’s not clear to me. He knew Lonni had read Dedra’s files, but it didn’t seem like he believed Lonni was the traitor–because he died so soon after accessing the files. My impression was that Krennic thought Dedra was the mole, who besides collecting information she shouldn’t’ve had, eliminated the first person who discovered she was collecting it. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741/280 "2025-05-20T14:39:29Z")
My first thought is that he assumed they were working together, he did ask Dedra how long ago she had given him her access codes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andor-season-2/1014741.md?page=15)