# Andrew Lloyd Webber is a craptastic HACK **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2005, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192 "2005-01-11T08:45:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/1 "2005-01-11T08:45:24Z")
Not only has the man written about three tunes, tops, choosing instead to lift from other composers and himself – over and over and over and over (I liked _Phantom of the Opera_ better when Puccini wrote it. The first time), but in doing so he employs the stupid tricks that you learn on Day One of Composing For Dummies 101. Oh, a minor chord progression! Look, it’s going back down the scale! Look, it’s going…back up the scale! And…_back down!_ How clever! Then there are his duets, which I believe he may be psychologically incapable of writing without parallel thirds. Then there are his arrangements, which I believe he may be psychologically incapable of writing without parallel thirds. His only way of indicating emotional intensity is to have his singer pop up an octave. His key changes do nothing but wave flags and say “Hey! I’m a key change, and that means PAY ATTENTION, HE’S KICKING IT UP A NOTCH!” And of course his crap lyricists (pointedly excepting the poetry of TS Eliot, of course) and their brave rhyming: “succumb to me” with “succumb to me”. Where’d the bolt of inspiration have to strike you to produce that little gem? No matter how you slice it, Andrew Lloyd Webber is a bigger hack than Paul Bunyan, and he STILL manages to make appr. one katrillion dollars for each overblown, overraten show he pumps out. Makes me wanna crash a chandelier ON HIS HEAD. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/2 "2005-01-11T08:48:21Z")
Probably all true, but ‘Music of the Night’ is still my favourite karaoke number. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/3 "2005-01-11T09:44:38Z")
He’s the Thomas Kinkade of composition: Not completely without talent but grotesquely kitschy and unsophisticated. You didn’t mention “Jesus Christ Superstar.” I despise it equally, but it is not like the rest of his stuff. You gotta give him cred for a piece here and there. “Memories” is an all-time lowbrow masterpiece. Its tune combines an ingenious organicness (you can barely imagine it not existing) with unalienable corn. Some of his stuff works as simple pop. “Think of Me” from “Phantom” is just a decent pop song, and probably for that reason the least-remembered song therein. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/4 "2005-01-11T10:24:53Z")
“Andrew Lloyd Webber is a craptastic hack”? Why not just call the thread “People enjoy sex!”? It doesn’t seem to be much in debate, is what I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/5 "2005-01-11T12:54:27Z")
Hum. I kind of like him. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/6 "2005-01-11T13:26:39Z")
I liked _Joseph_, _Superstar_, and _Evita_. Not to say that they were musical masterpieces but there really wasn’t any pretense. Just a fun evening of catchy tunes and a really easy to follow story. An enjoyable evening of simple musical theater. _Joseph_ is particularly fun, probably my favorite. Everything else has been crap. ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/7 "2005-01-11T13:38:31Z")
I don’t mind Aspects of Love - and Love Changes Everything, but that’s about it. My poor husband has been treated to a huge rant from me every single time I see a commercial for _Phantom_. Lloyd Webber has sailed on simplistic melodies and basic harmonies for years. He appeals to a mass audience because, well, his music _is_ simple and doesn’t require thought. Never mind that he seems to take one theme and beat the hell out of it through the entire show. I feel like he listens to one of his pieces, says “These four bars sound a bit bare - I know! I’ll throw the subject in underneath the melody! That’s clever!”, and he does it OVER AND OVER again. Yet, shows like _Wonderful Town_ and most Sondheim shows are completely overlooked and undervalued by anyone except the theatre community. Instead, we’re treated to Lloyd Webber hacking his music to death. He’s the Britney Spears of Broadway. (Strong opinions about Broadway? Really? I didn’t know that!) E. ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/8 "2005-01-11T13:53:20Z")
Oh, this rant doesn’t belong here, but you’re talking about the upcoming _Phantom_, so I hope you don’t mind me highjacking a little… The other day I was at my favorite quilting/needlepoint store, and as usual there were an awful lot of grey-haired old biddies and me, and the grey-haired old biddies decided to stand in front of me whenever I tried to look at a fabric pattern, which is not part of this rant either. I digress. One of them, in her best outdoor voice, yelled scratchily: “I am so glad that _Phantom_ movie is coming out!” Half the store turned to look at her. I am thinking some of the customers did not because they were probably deaf (maybe from having their friends yelling at them all the time?). I turned to look too, because I was surprised that someone was actually excited to see the movie. I do not expect it to be anything but a TRAVESTY of the HIGHEST ORDER. But that also is a separate rant. Another old biddy, probably half deaf, yelled back, “Why, Ethel?” “Because I like the play so much but there’s no story! Just a lot of singing! I can’t wait to hear about the story!” :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Why didn’t Ethel just read the book? Just a lot of singing, pah! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/9 "2005-01-11T13:59:29Z")
I hated _Phantom_ - we were given free tickets and I probably should have just gone home - I can’t stand the stilted sung-dialog thing. However, I liked _Cats_, mostly for the spectacle of the thing (although I don’t like the theme song, _Memories_); I also like _Joseph_, but at least 50% of that is based on fond recollection of performing in it a couple of years ago. _Superstar_ isn’t \*_bad_; the 2000 movie version has a certain gritty appeal. But yes; Webber is a cynical hack; he knows the formula and isn’t afraid to exploit it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Little\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Bird)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/10 "2005-01-11T14:05:31Z")
As I opened this thread my boss had an all elevator music CD of Phantom and other Lloyd Webber muzak playing. She had it playing yesterday too. I don’t mind the music if I only hear it now and again. This constant barrage is driving me slowly insane. In other words: I hear ya, man. ---
**Author:** ![the\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@the\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_Lady)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/11 "2005-01-11T14:16:56Z")
I totally see where you’re coming from, **Tracy** but I must confess - I do still like him. I just like musicals, period. Haven’t found one I dislike yet. (yeah - no taste, I know) ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/12 "2005-01-11T14:17:32Z")
Have you heard everything Andrew Lloyd Webber has ever written? The idea that the man who wrote _The Likes of Us, Joseph, Jesus Christ Superstar, Gumshoe, Jeeves, The Odessa File, Evita, CATS, Variations, Tell Me on a Sunday, Song & Dance, Starlight Express, The Phantom of the Opera, Cricket, Requiem, Aspects of Love, By Jeeves, Sunset Boulevard, The Beautiful Game and Woman in White_ only writes three songs is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/13 "2005-01-11T14:58:30Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Have you heard everything Andrew Lloyd Webber has ever written? The idea that the man who wrote _The Likes of Us, Joseph, Jesus Christ Superstar, Gumshoe, Jeeves, The Odessa File, Evita, CATS, Variations, Tell Me on a Sunday, Song & Dance, Starlight Express, The Phantom of the Opera, Cricket, Requiem, Aspects of Love, By Jeeves, Sunset Boulevard, The Beautiful Game and Woman in White_ only writes three songs is ridiculous. You missed _Whistle Down The Wind_. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/14 "2005-01-11T15:31:33Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The idea that the man who wrote _The Likes of Us, Joseph, Jesus Christ Superstar, Gumshoe, Jeeves, The Odessa File, Evita, CATS, Variations, Tell Me on a Sunday, Song & Dance, Starlight Express, The Phantom of the Opera, Cricket, Requiem, Aspects of Love, By Jeeves, Sunset Boulevard, The Beautiful Game and Woman in White_ only writes three songs is ridiculous. I think you’re missing the point of the OP in a big way. In any event, I think we can all agree that he’s a fucking hack. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/15 "2005-01-11T16:55:55Z")
Musical geeks complaining about ALW is to movie geeks complaining about Titanic. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/16 "2005-01-11T19:08:36Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > No matter how you slice it, Andrew Lloyd Webber is a bigger hack than Paul Bunyan… Haha! I’m using that one in the future. Anyway, first off, I’ll admit to only really being familiar with Webber’s ‘popular’ successes (Joseph, Superstar, Cats, Phantom, Evita). Webber can write. Based on all the music out there that gets produced, both in the theatre world and non-theatre world, I’d say that his use of well-worn chord progressions is both excusable and forgivable. Heck, _most_ people writing popular music today are _not_ innovating. It doesn’t make them bad. That said, if we’re going to try to draw the line between the subjective ‘good’ (ie, popular), and objective ‘good’, which is always a tough line to draw, he definitely resides more in the former than the latter. Joseph, while cute, and fun for the whole family, is a musical joke. I’ve put it on a few times (once concurrently with **Mangetout** , IIRC, and the parts, both vocally and instrumentally, are at their best cliche, and at their worst incessant and dull. I kind of like it. I like rockin’ at the keyboard to “Jacob and Sons”, and the brief, bombastic, uber-dramatic pre-finalle ("So Jacob came to Egypt _dun_ _dun_ _dun_ no longer feeling old _dun_ _dun_ _dun_ _dun_ ,_dun_! And Joseph came to meet him in his charriot of gold! … can you tell I’ve done this show too many times?), but, most of the fun I have is playing my own arrangements of the parts for the different songs (Oh, cool, I get to improvize a western tune!), because his arrangements are, as I said, cliche at best, and generally fall flat. But, hey we can forgive him for that, 'cause he was what, in high school or something when he penned a lot of it? It ain’t bad for a first effort, but certainly not objectively ‘good’. Superstar’s a bit more skillfully written,with some interesting songs, and of all of the Webber I know is, IMO, his ‘best’ show. Anyway, without rambling on too much about each show, I think that without a doubt Webber can pen some catchy tunes, though generally nothing too memorable, Memory (heh) being one of the few exceptions. From a musical standpoint, his songs lack the creativity to earn him ‘intellectual’ respect, or even much joy from pit musicians, but are close enough for rock-and-roll, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/17 "2005-01-11T19:12:25Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > “Andrew Lloyd Webber is a craptastic hack”? Why not just call the thread “People enjoy sex!”? It doesn’t seem to be much in debate, is what I’m saying. One would think, and yet some people _love_ him. I know people who have gone to see _Phantom_ upwards of twenty times. It’s insane. He inspires a sort of fanatical musical devotion to his shows, which I could understand if they were any GOOD, but he is such a stunning, amazingly shitty writer that I boggle. > [@Elza B](#): > > He appeals to a mass audience because, well, his music _is_ simple and doesn’t require thought. Never mind that he seems to take one theme and beat the hell out of it through the entire show. I feel like he listens to one of his pieces, says “These four bars sound a bit bare - I know! I’ll throw the subject in underneath the melody! That’s clever!”, and he does it OVER AND OVER again. > > Yet, shows like _Wonderful Town_ and most Sondheim shows are completely overlooked and undervalued by anyone except the theatre community. Instead, we’re treated to Lloyd Webber hacking his music to death. He’s the Britney Spears of Broadway. Word. There is no _leit_ to his _leitmotif_. It’s just him, up there with a thematic club, hitting you about the head and shoulders until you give in. He’s a lazy, shoddy crowd-pleaser, and I wish I could take the people who go to see his shows more than once and sit them down for _Assassins_ or (going old-school) _West Side Story_ or even _Anything Goes_. “You see this? This is GOOD musical theater. You see Webber? That is CRAP. Let me give you a little tip about how capitalism works: if you don’t give him any more money, _he won’t write any more shows_.” > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Have you heard everything Andrew Lloyd Webber has ever written? The idea that the man who wrote _The Likes of Us, Joseph, Jesus Christ Superstar, Gumshoe, Jeeves, The Odessa File, Evita, CATS, Variations, Tell Me on a Sunday, Song & Dance, Starlight Express, The Phantom of the Opera, Cricket, Requiem, Aspects of Love, By Jeeves, Sunset Boulevard, The Beautiful Game and Woman in White_ only writes three songs is ridiculous. Nope. Three songs. _Starlight Express, Sunset Boulevard, By Jeeves_ and _CATS_ are all the same show. _Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, Evita,_ and _Jesus Christ Superstar_ are all the same show. _Phantom of the Opera_ is Puccini. Quantity does not quality make. ---
**Author:** ![19ForMe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/439d5e/32.png) [@19ForMe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/19ForMe)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/18 "2005-01-11T22:09:22Z")
Did anyone else notice that the peasant themed dancing song in “Woman in White” has the same tune as The Macarena? Walking out of the theatre, I mentioned it to my fiance. She thought I was nuts and then the orchestra started playing it. I was right and we both burst into laughter. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/19 "2005-01-11T22:29:11Z")
“Can I have another piece of chocolate cake?” ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192/20 "2005-01-11T22:35:20Z")
Right on, stpauler! _Not everyone in New York would pay to see Andrew Lloyd Webber may his trousers fall down as he bows to the Queen and the Crown_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-lloyd-webber-is-a-craptastic-hack/284192.md?page=2)