# Andrew Wakefield sues after people tell the truth about him **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 19, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071 "2012-01-19T22:04:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/1 "2012-01-19T22:04:50Z")
[http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AutismCommunity/doctor-claimed-vaccine-autism-link-sues-critics/comments?type=story&id=15306948](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AutismCommunity/doctor-claimed-vaccine-autism-link-sues-critics/comments?type=story&id=15306948) > [@](#): > > The controversial Andrew Wakefield, whose now largely discredited research ignited the vaccine-autism furor, has filed a defamation suit in a Texas court against the medical journal BMJ, its editor, and an investigative journalist over a series of articles published last January. Can we just kick the son of a bitch out of the country and be done with it? You Brits brought him into the world and even gave him a medical degree. You should take him back. The comments are equally disgusting. Yes, you can get whooping cough more than once. Natural immunity wears off in as little as seven years just like the vaccine can. At least the vaccine won’t crack your ribs or suffocate a baby. Yes, autism has a hereditary component so if that you have asperger’s that’s probably the reason why your kid has autism and not the hep b vaccine. No, they haven’t been able to find any studies replicating Wakefield’s findings. In fact his original study does not even indicate any correlation between vaccines and autism so STFU. Vaccine makers would make more money treating measles than preventing it. Yes, vaccines carry risks. So does crossing the street or driving a car. So do vaccine preventable diseases. Ugh. The arrogance of ignorance never ceases to amaze me. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/2 "2012-01-19T22:15:45Z")
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - if it were up to me, Wakefield would be brought up on murder charges. There’s no way that evil bastard can truly believe in his own theory, given the utter lack of scientific evidence to back him up, which makes him either psychotically delusional on this issue (and therefore a danger to others) or deliberately causing an increase in vaccine-preventable diseases. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/3 "2012-01-19T22:57:59Z")
I’m curious to see whether the Texas court thinks it has jurisdiction over a periodical not published in the US. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/4 "2012-01-19T23:49:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m curious to see whether the Texas court thinks it has jurisdiction over a periodical not published in the US. Wakefield is currently a resident of Austin, Texas, and his suit cites Texas’s “[Long Arm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_arm_jurisdiction)” statute as justification for the venue. I’m no lawyer, though, so the wikipedia link is about all I can offer without completely talking out of my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/5 "2012-01-20T00:01:59Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Wakefield is currently a resident of Austin, Texas, and his suit cites Texas’s “[Long Arm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_arm_jurisdiction)” statute as justification for the venue. I’m no lawyer, though, so the wikipedia link is about all I can offer without completely talking out of my ass. Bricker will be along todo that. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/6 "2012-01-20T00:16:39Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > [http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AutismCommunity/doctor-claimed-vaccine-autism-link-sues-critics/comments?type=story&id=15306948](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AutismCommunity/doctor-claimed-vaccine-autism-link-sues-critics/comments?type=story&id=15306948) > > Can we just kick the son of a bitch out of the country and be done with it? You Brits brought him into the world and even gave him a medical degree. You should take him back. The way I figure it, Wakefield’s hoping the case is dismissed out of hand because of jurisdiction issues - then he can claim that he’s still being oppressed, and live off the money that he’s been collecting from his followers for the hilariously misnamed “Justice fund.” I’m hoping that this goes down as one of the great disasters of a libel suit, in which the persons sued show such definitive evidence of the validity of their disputed statements that the persons suing not only lose the case, but go to jail. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/7 "2012-01-20T00:35:26Z")
Orac (a blog by a cancer surgeon) argues that he’s basically bringing the lawsuit to save face to his supporters: [http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/01/the\_antivaccine\_crankosphere\_rallies\_aro.php#more](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/01/the_antivaccine_crankosphere_rallies_aro.php#more) > [@](#): > > Personally, I favor the explanation that Wakefield knows he can’t win this case but needed to bring it to rally his followers, even the most rabid of whom wonder why he didn’t sue Deer for libel after BMJ published his analysis of how he committed research fraud if, as Wakefield claims, the allegations are lies. Suing in Texas instead of the U.K. allows Wakefield to put on a show of “fighting back” for his followers at the lowest cost. If the case goes forward, he wins. If the case doesn’t go forward, he wins as well, because in this latter case he can cry “conspiracy” or “unfair,” secure in the knowledge that his groupies will eat it up. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/8 "2012-01-20T00:45:37Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I’m hoping that this goes down as one of the great disasters of a libel suit, in which the persons sued show such definitive evidence of the validity of their disputed statements that the persons suing not only lose the case, but go to jail. Apropos of nothing: that’s the exact thing that happened to Oscar Wilde. He sued the Marquis of Queensbury for libel, but ended up in jail himself due to the suit. Wilde and Wakefield, although both British, are quite different from one another, however. The following absolutely true and in no way libelous quotes on the nature of love should illustrate my meaning: “Deceiving others. That is what the world calls a romance.” -Oscar Wilde “I fuck chickens!” -Andrew Wakefield ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/9 "2012-01-20T00:54:55Z")
Why would he file in Texas? Wouldn’t British libel law be much more favorable for him? I’ve never seen someone chose the US as the venue for a weak libel suit when the UK also would have jurisdiction. Is there something I’m missing? ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/10 "2012-01-20T01:08:52Z")
While UK libel law may be more favorable to the plaintiff the cost of loosing in the UK is much higher than the US. In the US the looser of a law suit does not generally have to pay the legal fees of the winner. In the UK the looser generally has to pay the legal costs of the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/11 "2012-01-20T01:14:20Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Apropos of nothing: that’s the exact thing that happened to Oscar Wilde. He sued the Marquis of Queensbury for libel, but ended up in jail himself due to the suit. That’s one of the cases I was thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/12 "2012-01-20T01:21:55Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > the cost of loosing in the UK is much higher than the US. In the US the looser of a law suit does not generally have to pay So when I need to have my suit let out a little, I should take it down south? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/13 "2012-01-20T01:42:46Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - if it were up to me, Wakefield would be brought up on murder charges. **There’s no way that evil bastard can truly believe in his own theory** , given the utter lack of scientific evidence to back him up, which makes him either psychotically delusional on this issue (and therefore a danger to others) or deliberately causing an increase in vaccine-preventable diseases. He doesn’t. He was trying to discredit the existing vaccine because\* he had developed a vaccine of his own\*. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/14 "2012-01-20T01:55:39Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > He doesn’t. He was trying to discredit the existing vaccine because\* he had developed a vaccine of his own\*. I am well aware of that. I’m talking about his CONTINUING insistence on the link after the scads of scientific studies that indicate no such link, and after his fabrication of the evidence was revealed. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/15 "2012-01-20T07:50:35Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > He doesn’t. He was trying to discredit the existing vaccine because\* he had developed a vaccine of his own\*. Wakefield is a charlatan who should be fed feet first into a industrial shredder for the impact caused by his claims. However, I believe the claim that he was developing his own vaccine is unproven. I would very much appreciate any links proving this, just so I can hate him a little bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/16 "2012-01-20T08:06:25Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Wakefield is a charlatan who should be fed feet first into a industrial shredder for the impact caused by his claims. I am opposed to such unnecessary cruelty. For this reason, I think he should be fed _head_ first into an industrial shredder. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/17 "2012-01-20T11:57:19Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > He doesn’t. He was trying to discredit the existing vaccine because\* he had developed a vaccine of his own\*. He was being paid by lawyers looking to sue the manufacturers of the MMR vaccine. I don’t think he had his own vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/18 "2012-01-20T13:34:47Z")
Wakefield had his own vaccine patent. He was trying to play all the sides for his own profit: > **[Andrew Wakefield’s vaccine patent – briandeer.com](https://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm)** This is in addition to being paid by lawyers suing the makers of the MMR. Wakefield is a sick, mercenary fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/19 "2012-01-20T13:43:00Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Wakefield had his own vaccine patent. He was trying to play all the sides for his own profit: > > [Andrew Wakefield’s vaccine patent – briandeer.com](http://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm) Bloody hell, so he did. What an utter fucking tosser of a man. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071/20 "2012-01-20T14:49:55Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Wakefield is currently a resident of Austin, Texas, and his suit cites Texas’s “[Long Arm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_arm_jurisdiction)” statute as justification for the venue. I’m no lawyer, though, so the wikipedia link is about all I can offer without completely talking out of my ass. Long arm statutes simply define the reach of state courts (and federal courts in that state). Individual states usually _limit_ the reach of their own courts to avoid overburdening their judiciaries with other peoples’ problems. In any event, states can’t extend their courts’ reach beyond that allowed by the constitution, and the BMJ almost certainly does not have the “minimum contacts” with Texas necessary to find personal jurisdiction. > [@gazpacho](#): > > While UK libel law may be more favorable to the plaintiff the cost of loosing in the UK is much higher than the US. In the US the looser of a law suit does not generally have to pay the legal fees of the winner. In the UK the looser generally has to pay the legal costs of the winner. Just to clear this up, under the “American rule” the losing party generally pays only the winner’s litigation _costs_, if anything (witness fees, discovery costs, deposition costs and travel expenses), and not its attorneys’ fees. Under the “English rule” (which should really be called the “everywhere but America rule”) the loser pays the winner’s attorneys’ fees and costs. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andrew-wakefield-sues-after-people-tell-the-truth-about-him/610071.md?page=2)