# Andros-your a sour cream puff...Grienspace **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 28, 2000, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458 "2000-12-28T00:33:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/1 "2000-12-28T00:33:08Z")
[QUOTE] Well ain’t that just typical. someone shows up to pontificate, realizes people aren’t going to buy his poorly-thoughtout argument at face value, and runs as soon as people start demonstrating the flaws in his statements rather than try to defend them. Lovely. - by Andros/ [QUOTE] Perhaps someone might provide the link in Great Debates refering to atheist caucasians. I don’t know how. Andros, its guys like you who’ve caused me to withdraw from the thread I started. It was like when I repeatedly ask my seven year old a question and she repeatedly replied “because”.You guys provided no serious input at all and acted like a pack of dogs getting all worked up in a frenzy. You provided a statement that anti-believers were rare among SDers because Gaudere said so.What is he? The leader of the pack. Is he a reliable source as to the beliefs of most SDers? Its guys like you who sniff around a thread to guage the mood and then jump in with both feet protected by the surging mob focused on one target. You weren’t debating, you were attacking. You disgust me. Any reading of my opening post would completely nullify your two basic charges against me. 1. I did not pontificate. In fact I expressed no opinion whatsoever. Reasoned conclusions always begin with a proposal that needs to be tested. 2. I did not run. I am not a coward like you. On my own I took your bullshit and tried to clear up the personal attacks so that we could get on with the debate.But I can’t reason with a pack of wild dogs. So congratulations Andros, you are a bullshiter, liar and a coward. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/2 "2000-12-28T00:39:08Z")
> [@](#): > > You provided a statement that anti-believers were rare among SDers because Gaudere said so.What is he? The leader of the pack. Yes. Yes, I am. Better run away from Great Debates, before I pee on you to mark my dominance. Awoooooooooooo! ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/3 "2000-12-28T00:53:35Z")
[pulls up lawn chair, opens paper bag of sour cream puffs and thermos of coffee] Go **Andros!** Yay team! 😃 Doesn’t **Gaudere** look splendid in her Boss Dog uniform? You look spiffy, dear. Anybody want a cream puff? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=52762&pagenumber=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=52762&pagenumber=2) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/4 "2000-12-28T01:01:24Z")
I’ve said some controversial things, and been called to back them up. I either did so, or admitted that what I thought was accurate was in error, because somebody dragged out evidence to prove me wrong. All “all X are Y” statements are in error – including this one. You can, in fact, generalize intelligently, and come up with some logical observations that have a great deal of validity. But it takes good observation and intelligent phrasing of the generalization. I have not a clue of what ethnoracial background most atheists are derived, nor do I care. But you pontificated that all were Caucasian and then had a problem with people disagreeing with your premise. They don’t call it Great Debates because we all agree on everything. But we **learn** from each other, and often find common ground. Stick around and try to follow the customs that prevail. After all, when in Rome, imitate a Catholic. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/5 "2000-12-28T01:21:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose > Doesn’t **Gaudere** look splendid in her Boss Dog uniform? You look spiffy, dear. My apologies for not getting Gaudere’s gender right! I can just picture her dreaming of peeing with her baculum reinforced penis. To polycarp, your not much better than Andros. You spew words of which you have no understanding.If you want an education, start by looking up the meaning of “pontificate”. Either that or you’re one of those people who believe if you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/6 "2000-12-28T01:29:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaudere \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > You provided a statement that anti-believers were rare among SDers because Gaudere said so.What is he? The leader of the pack. > > Yes. Yes, I am. Better run away from Great Debates, before I pee on you to mark my dominance. Awoooooooooooo! \*\* Is she really picking on him? Well there she is, Let’s ask her Gaudre? Is that grienspaces’s ass you’re about to hand him? “Mmm-hmmmm” Gee, it must be great picking on him him! Are you picking on him after school today? “Uh-huh!” By the way, where’d you meet him? “I met him Great Debates He made some dumb-ass remarks Do you get the picture?” (Yes, we see) That’s when she showed him she was the leader of the pack David B and Andros were putting him down (Down, down) When he said that athiests were anti-Christian clowns (whatcha mean when ya say Anti-Christian clowns?) He said Christians are great But atheists were filled with ha-aaate That’s when Gaudere showed him she was the leader of the pack! Then, David B. said ‘Anti-believers are few’ Grienspace didn’t answer even to eschew (whatcha mean when ya say he didn’t eschew?) the points that David made. Grienspace was really afraid That’s when she fixed his coding, she’s the Leader of the Pack! Well, grienspace cried and said to all “Well, goodbye, You’re acrimious, it made me cry! This is like a bar-room brawl And I’m gonna leave you all!” No one begged him not to go But as he left, he said "I’ll see Andro’ In the pit, the pit, oh THE PIIIIIIT! We all laughed, we’ve seen this before A whiner about to get knocked to the floor In the pit they’ll stop and stare Gaudere’s been there, she doesn’t care She’s one of the pit-Queens, the Leader of the Pack! Fenris ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/7 "2000-12-28T01:49:32Z")
Come on Andros, don’t be hiding behind the queenbitch and her consorts. Come on out where ever you are. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/8 "2000-12-28T01:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > To polycarp, your not much better than Andros. You are probably not aware of the high compliment you pay me in those words. But mostly everyone else is. If you don’t like “pontificate” in the metaphorical use of “state authoritatively” then choose another verb. Other than that I don’t know of any term I misused, and that was merely by extension. Do you particularly have a point in opening this Pit thread? Or are you one of those people who chooses to maintain an attitude without expressing what it’s about? I’m prepared to agree or disagree with well-stated points raised by people according to my understanding of the facts behind their assertions, and to admit my error when I am in error and it is proven to me. Off the top of my head, it appears that you made a quasi-racist absolute assertion without data to back it, then got irritated when people called you on it. If I am wrong, **show** me in what I err. Beyond that: > [@](#): > > If you want an education, start by looking up the meaning of “pontificate”. > > Either that or you’re one of those people who believe if you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes the truth. I am certain there are a lot of things in which I am inadequately educated. But I can tell you one thing, bucko: he who teaches me won’t be you! :mad: And as for your last paragraph, I’ll submit it to the Pitizens in general: does that describe me accurately? ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/9 "2000-12-28T02:10:42Z")
…if you weren’t already married I’d propose. 😉 As it is, no, grien’s way off base with that comment. But then, every time I see a post by this person I’m overwhelmed with the desire to say DNFTT. Not sure why. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/10 "2000-12-28T02:24:55Z")
I will now run part of grienspace’s message through the whiner decoder ring: > [@](#): > > You guys provided no serious input at all and acted like a pack of dogs getting all worked up in a frenzy. Decoded: _You guys shot down my arguments and I don’t like it!_ > [@](#): > > You provided a statement that anti-believers were rare among SDers because Gaudere said so.What is he? The leader of the pack. Is he a reliable source as to the beliefs of most SDers? Decoded: _I have no fucking idea what I’m talking about, so I’m going to rant on and ignore all of the valid points made in that thread. Instead I’ll pick on a couple of people who really made me look bad and hope nobody notices what an ass I am._ > [@](#): > > Its guys like you who sniff around a thread to guage the mood and then jump in with both feet protected by the surging mob focused on one target. You weren’t debating, you were attacking. You disgust me. Decoded: _Mommy! They’re picking on me just 'cus I’m an ignorant moron!_ ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/11 "2000-12-28T02:46:30Z")
Listen up, buddy, and listen good. **Polycarp** , in my considered opinion, is in the top five most intelligent, logical, and reasonable posters on this entire board. Very, very few people in the world intimidate me intellectually. After reading **Polycarp** ’s posts for close to a year, I can say unequivocally that he is one of them. I think **Persephone** said it best a couple of days ago ([here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=52148)) when she said, > [@](#): > > For starters, listen to Polycarp. Always…He’s wrong about as often as Cecil is, which is, oh, never. **Poly** is a Christian, and I find myself disagreeing with him quite often, but he always makes his case in a reasonable, logical manner. Plus, and here’s a bonus, he’s always nice about it. **Andros** is another one you’d do very well to heed. To say **Andros** and **Polycarp** are in the same intellectual boat would not be a stretch. Do yourself a favor. Quit whining now and apologize. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/12 "2000-12-28T03:30:11Z")
Upon review I must admit that I owe you an apology. Thankyou Ogre for pointing that out. I completely misunderstood the nature and intent of your initial comment in this thread". You set me off with using the word pontificate which makes me want to scream, because it absolutely misrepresents the nature of my character. I can not possibly see as to how I am pontificating in the openning post. I’m not here to get along with everyone. I’m here to debate and learn other people’s ideas and see how close some of my ideas are to others. I am very open minded and as such could never belong to any political party. Yes, I am a Christian, but I believe in Universal Salvation through Jesus Christ regardless of whether one “believes” in their lifetime on earth. Nothing else is anywhere near as important or significant as that, but I do enjoy debating ideas. I do not enjoy being pissed on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/13 "2000-12-28T04:00:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dogsbody \* > \*\*…if you weren’t already married I’d propose. 😉 > > As it is, no, grien’s way off base with that comment. But then, every time I see a post by this person I’m overwhelmed with the desire to say DNFTT. Not sure why. 😃 \*\* What does DNFTT mean? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/14 "2000-12-28T04:13:08Z")
It means Do Not Feed the Troll, and it’s the rallying cry of the troll-hunter, a species that’s nearly extinct around here at the mods’ (entirely justified) insistence. People do have a tendency around here to post “DNFTT” with incomplete provocation. To be sure, there are not supposed to be any public troll outings. If you think someone’s a troll, email a mod. Period. Do not start a witch-hunt. For what it’s worth, I do not believe that you are a troll, **grienspace**. I just believe you were cornered on an argument, and reacted a bit badly. No big deal. You apologized. Now let’s everybody make nice and continue with the Ignorance-Fightin’ business. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/15 "2000-12-28T04:22:45Z")
Since grienspace has apologized, then my comment > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > To polycarp, your not much better than Andros. You spew words of which you have no understanding.If you want an education, start by looking up the meaning of “pontificate”. “Perhaps if _you_ want an education, you might try looking up the meaning of ‘your’, as opposed to ‘you’re’” is completely uncalled for. Carry on. Oh, and listen to Ogre on that entire troll/DNFTT thing. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/16 "2000-12-28T13:59:01Z")
Apology accepted, and I think we’re on very close to the same wavelength. Good to know that you’re dealing with criticism and not just getting offended, and I’ll take your observation about terminology into account; sometimes I just use words that work for me without thought about how they might be misconstrued. It can get a little hot and heavy in Great Debates, as I’m sure you’re now aware. Careful phrasing is often necessary to avoid the sorts of BS you encountered. It’s probably a bit late to say “welcome” but I’m glad to know we have another intelligent Christian with an eye to God’s saving Love rather than His Awefull Justice around; we’re a smidgen scarce around these parts! BTW, Gaudere is an atheist, (Caucasian as it happens) and very knowledgeable about religious issues. She merely sees inadequate evidence to accept the whole idea of God, or indeed any god. But she’s as apt to argue on your side as against when she sees you have a valid point to make. Part of the fun of this board is that the moderators get down and dirty with the rest of us, putting on their “moderator hats” (I always envision David B. with a cat-in-the-hat chapeau) when they need to take official action and keeping that separated from their opinions. On one occasion I recall, a fundamentalist was arguing (rather poorly) some points and Esprix was the first to cross the line to personal invective, and while the moderators were arguing on Esprix’s side, he was the one called on the carpet for it. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/17 "2000-12-29T02:15:08Z")
grienspace said: > [@](#): > > I’m not here to get along with everyone. I’m here to debate and learn other people’s ideas If you want to learn other people’s ideas, you might consider actually listening (or the message board equivalent) to them, rather than just lashing out at and/or ignoring anybody who disagrees with you. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/18 "2000-12-29T07:24:18Z")
Sorry, I would have been here sooner, but I’m still smarting over the hideous performance turned in by Duke in the game with Stanford the other day. **Grienspace** , your idea that atheism is more prevalent in the Western world is deserving of discussion. However, your presentation leaves a great deal to be desired, and your original posts were, as I said, poorly thought-out and flawed. It’s not my problem if you are unwilling to accept that and learn from it. Only one more thing I can think of to add: any comparisons of myself to **Polycarp** , while immensely flattering, are entirely unwarranted. I’m nowhere near his league–but I’m trying. Otherwise, carry on. Looks like y’all are doing fine without me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2000, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/19 "2000-12-31T08:39:52Z")
Polycarp: > [@](#): > > And as for your last paragraph, I’ll submit it to the Pitizens in general: does that describe me accurately? Yes, you are one of those people who believe if you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes the truth. You often repeat lies in the belief that it will become the truth. In the belief that it will become the truth, repeating lies is something that you do. You are believer is a causal relationship between repeating a lie and it becoming true. Lies becoming truth if you repeat them is something in which you believe. Sorry, I couldn’t resist. Gaudere: > [@](#): > > Yes. Yes, I am. Better run away from Great Debates, before I pee on you to mark my dominance. Awoooooooooooo! Oooh, kinky! But grienspace doesn’t strike me as the kind of person who goes for that kind of thing. Speaking of grienspace, here are some interesting quotes: > [@](#): > > Whenever atheism and the state came together in the 20th century, horrific persecution resulted. That statement can only be the result of **deliberate** ignorance. It also makes clear that as devout a Christian you pretend to be, you harbor great animosity towards atheists. The implication of your statement is that all atheists are horrible people, and that belief is just as bigoted as the belief all Jews are parasites or that all blacks are drug dealers. > [@](#): > > I will accept however that I should have used the term hard atheist instead of just atheist. Perhaps I meant to be even more specific than that. I envisioned the type of person who would promote the knowledge and understanding of the Invisible Pink Unicorn. This “religion” is clearly a lampoon of my faith. Such effort that went into the growth and development of th IPU smacks of hatred, and I find hatred scary. This from someone who claims that Christianity is the most tolerant religion! If you don’t like the fact that some people don’t accept your faith, that’s just too bad. Believe it or not, people don’t go around disbelieving in God just to piss you off, or because they hate you. You are not the center of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2000, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458/20 "2000-12-31T09:51:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > > Speaking of grienspace, here are some interesting quotes: > > > [@](#): > > > > Whenever atheism and the state came together in the 20th century, horrific persecution resulted. > > That statement can only be the result of **deliberate** ignorance. I’m sorry, but you cannot deny the Holocaust under Nazism. You cannot deny the pogroms under Stalin. As for your charge of hate, I’m sorry if you feel I hate you. I felt offended by the personal nature of your post, but I certainly don’t hate you. {Note: fixed the code. Lynn} [Edited by Lynn Bodoni on 12-31-2000 at 11:35 PM] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andros-your-a-sour-cream-puff-grienspace/47458.md?page=2)