# Andy Griffith Show: Why Did Ronny Howard Get Second Billing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 29, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155 "2016-07-29T00:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/21 "2016-07-29T21:56:41Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Well, does Don Knotts get bottom billing? Last billing is actually preferred to second billing, because of actual research that people remember that first and lat items on a list better than anything in between, including the second item. I first heard this from my junior high school band director. He emphasized “nailing” the beginning and the end of a song. Do that, and nobody will remember a mistake in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/22 "2016-07-29T22:57:00Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Don’t forget “…and Jerry Mathers as the Beaver”! Phil Hartman took the “and” role on newsradio as well. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/23 "2016-07-29T22:59:23Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > He said that Irwin Allen had screaming fits about that demand, but when he realized it wouldn’t cost him anymore money he relented. I remember Kurt Kaznar had similar “Guest Star” billing on _Land of the Giants_, another Irwin Allen production. ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee7513/32.png) [@Mona\_Lott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lott)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/24 "2016-07-30T01:52:40Z")
I think that Mary Tyler Moore had final mention in the Dick Van Dyke Show. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/25 "2016-07-30T02:51:59Z")
> [@Mona\_Lott](#): > > I think that Mary Tyler Moore had final mention in the Dick Van Dyke Show. But that was her first regular TV role and she hadn’t been in a movie yet except for one uncredited bit part. The producers of that show weren’t even sure that she had any capability as a comic actor. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/26 "2016-07-30T15:28:13Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Don’t forget “…and Jerry Mathers as the Beaver”! Also don’t forget “… and Harold Ramis as the Beaver.” (SCTV) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/27 "2016-07-30T16:12:44Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I remember Kurt Kaznar had similar “Guest Star” billing on _Land of the Giants_, another Irwin Allen production. Oddly enough both Kazner and Jonathan Harris from _Lost In Space_ were considered the show’s villains, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/28 "2016-07-30T16:33:12Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > But that was her first regular TV role and she hadn’t been in a movie yet except for one uncredited bit part. The producers of that show weren’t even sure that she had any capability as a comic actor. She has tons of credits as a guest performer of a series of TV shows before _The DVD Show_. Morey Amsterdam had been around much longer, but most of his career had been as a live stand-up performer or MC, and he didn’t have that many credits on TV or in the movies. He’s probably still the one you’d expect to have bottom billing, but he actually has the middle spot. Maybe he took money over billing-- something that made a lot of sense contractually if he and his agent didn’t think the show was going to last that long. MTM on the other hand, knowing that she had years ahead of her, could have decided that being able to say she had bottom billing on a network show, even one that only lasted a season, would be good for her resume. And yes, _The Dick van Dyke Show_ was actually not a show the studio had much faith in. It was a surprise hit. Rose Marie had the strongest resume, and she gets second billing. Larry Matthews is second to last, which makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/29 "2016-07-31T13:25:41Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > …Larry Matthews is second to last, which makes sense. Ah yes, the worst child actor in the history of the universe IMO. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/30 "2016-07-31T16:02:17Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Ah yes, the worst child actor in the history of the universe IMO. > mmm “I still think we got the wrong baby” from That’s My Boy? episode FWIW Paul Henreid didn’t want to be in “Casablanca”, insisted on getting third billing after Bogart and Bergman, whom he didn’t like, and in later years always insisted he still get billing anytime it was re released or home media as the contract called for. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/31 "2016-07-31T16:04:30Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > But that was her first regular TV role and she hadn’t been in a movie yet except for one uncredited bit part. The producers of that show weren’t even sure that she had any capability as a comic actor. She’d done a lot of TV work, just not as a regular so her name was probably pretty well known in the industry. Plus the billing isn’t necessarily what the studio deems to be appropriate, in large part it’s what the performers’ agent can negotiate for them. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/32 "2016-07-31T16:13:15Z")
> [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > Oddly enough both Kazner and Jonathan Harris from _Lost In Space_ were considered the show’s villains, so to speak. And both villains bonded with the young boy in the series, Dr. Smith with Will Robinson, and Alexander Fitzhugh with Barry. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/33 "2016-08-01T11:40:37Z")
> [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > … > Other shows that included the “coveted and…” credit includes: > … > and Agnes Moorehead as Endora I’m watching a _Bewitched_ rerun right now. David White as Larry Tate came last in the credits behind Agnes Moorehead. ---
**Author:** ![Susie812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Susie812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susie812)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/34 "2016-08-01T18:44:34Z")
> [@Personal](#): > > I don’t know if it’s true for the entire series, but at least in Season 3, Ronny Howard got billing over Don Knotts in the opening credits, with Andy getting top billing of course. Why? > > Knotts was older, and I assume an experienced actor. Howard hadn’t been in the business all that long. The show seemed pretty evenly split between Andy’s family role and his role as sheriff, so screen time was fairly evenly divided between Howard and Knotts. > > It seems odd to me that the older actor was billed behind the younger. > > I guess that leads to another question. Who was paid more? Ron Howard played Andy Griffifh’s son. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/35 "2016-08-01T18:50:33Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I’m watching a _Bewitched_ rerun right now. David White as Larry Tate came last in the credits behind Agnes Moorehead. Must be a later season. Which Darin was it? Dick York or Sargent? As shows lasted longer, supporting characters would often get opening credits instead of a huge pay raise. Raymond Bailey & Nancy Kulp (Mr. Dysdale & Miss Jane) finally appeared on the opening credits in the last seasons of the show on The Beverly Hillbillies. After showing the 4 hillbillies in their truck they’d cut away to Drysdale & Hathaway in her convertible. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/36 "2016-08-01T19:25:29Z")
> [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > Must be a later season. Which Darin was it? Dick York or Sargent? > As shows lasted longer, supporting characters would often get opening credits instead of a huge pay raise. > > Raymond Bailey & Nancy Kulp (Mr. Dysdale & Miss Jane) finally appeared on the opening credits in the last seasons of the show on The Beverly Hillbillies. After showing the 4 hillbillies in their truck they’d cut away to Drysdale & Hathaway in her convertible. Yeah, not sure what season, but probably late in the series run. Dick Sargent played Darin, and Sam and Darin had had their second child, Adam. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/37 "2016-08-01T20:01:46Z")
> [@Personal](#): > > That final billing is the more valuable spot makes sense. There were at least a few shows of that period that final-billed lesser roles though. … And later, The Brady Bunch (Ann B. Wilson [Davis]) … Actually, Ann B. Davis had won a pair of Emmys for “The Bob Cumming Show,” so she was probably second only to Florence Henderson for the cast member most familiar to viewers. (Although the impression that placing the maid after the family seems to make the most sense also probably had something to do with her billing.) ---
**Author:** ![bmasters1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@bmasters1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmasters1)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155/38 "2016-08-05T14:49:25Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > And Special Guest Star Jonathan Harris as Dr. Smith. 😃 Others: “And Joan Collins as Alexis” (_Dynasty_) “And Starring William Daniels as Dr. Mark Craig” (_St. Elsewhere_, first five seasons; Daniels would be up top for the last one) “And Charles Siebert as Dr. Riverside” (_Trapper John, M.D._) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-griffith-show-why-did-ronny-howard-get-second-billing/761155.md?page=1)