# Andy Rooney's modern art rant **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 26, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131 "2006-06-26T00:03:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/321 "2006-06-27T20:15:38Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] The reason I am not terribly interested in going over this again is because it was already covered pages ago, and as I said, I feel that we are going around in circles. But, if you insist I give you an answer…the reason I believe spending is better done at the local/state level is basically the same reason I think most spending should be done at the local/state level: because government at this level has a much better shot at representing its constituency than the federal government does. There was a lot of discussion already about how to fund art that is accessible to everyone. I will again give “Piss Christ” as an example of a work of art that may be acceptable to more liberal, less religious people, such as those in NYC, where I believe the work was exhibited. If New Yorkers want to support that kind of art, they are entitiled to. But I don’t believe that people in another part of the country, who may have different ideas about what kind of art they would like to support, should have to have their taxes go to fund this kind of exhibit. [/quote] But all of your objections to federal arts funding applies equally to state arts funding. Lots of people in New York were offended by Cerrano’s picture. Why is it okay for people to foot the bill for art they don’t like if it’s funded by the state, but not okay for people to foot the bill for art they don’t like, just because it’s funded by the feds? And what about the people in Oklahoma who don’t have a problem with Cerrano’s work? > [@](#): > > Heck, I believe that if people in Arkansas want to teach “intelligent design” in their public schools, then this is their perogative. I may not agree with it, but my way of dealing with that is by NOT moving to Arkansas. I think this is a much better way of coping with our differences than having the feds run everything, and thereby forcing everyone to live under the same “rules,” as it were. So, is it the first ammendment you don’t like, or just the fourteenth? ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/322 "2006-06-27T22:15:49Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] I know exactly what you mean. It got completely out of hand in one city. Some clown got this idea for a massive iron monument to commemorate the anniversary of a political event – big deal in their history. A bunch of the _avant garde_ (pretentious lot) supported his plan. Others were horrified and a petition of protest with over three hundred names – some of them rather famous – was submitted. They were overruled. One translation of that petition reads as follows: [/QUOTE] You chose the worst possible example-The Eiffel Tower I thought this was generally known but apparently not. A lot of Parisienne people (from 1889 until now) hate the Eiffel tower. A lot of Parisiennes like the tower but think it is out of place in Paris. If you had ever been to Paris and seen all the other architecture you would see their point. My friends in Paris confirmed this with me. I happen to like the Eiffel Tower. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/323 "2006-06-27T22:26:35Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] It’s a joke, son. Talk about not seeing the point - Do you really think those 300 000 would all go if they had to pay? I mean, really? I can’t believe you’re using attendance at a free concert to point out that there’s a “market” for anything. _All_ you prove is that people like Classical music, not that they’re _willing to pay for it_. The two are clearly not equivalent, and it’s the latter point that’s important, and that you still have to show. I’m still laughing. [/QUOTE] Thanks Dad. I know it is a free concert. You are a moron, aren’t you. You are still laughing at your own stupidity. Or are you laughing all the way to the asylum ? You really cannot see the point? If 300,000 people go every year and enjoy it, then classical music can be sold in huge numbers. Are you too feeble-minded to get that point? ---
**Author:** ![percussion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@percussion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/percussion)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/324 "2006-06-27T22:58:55Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] The thing is!!! that I can’t tell from that!! how much effort has been made to raise those private donations!!! Seriously, I’m sure they try all kinds of ways to raise $$$. The thing is, Canada is a more socialist government than the US, and I think that when the private sector is used to the government taking care of paying for things (and when taxes are on the high side as a result of this spending), they are less likely to want to pay for things themselves. This could be a contributing factor in the inability for the TSO to be able to raise the money in the private sector. [/QUOTE] they have committee after committee trying to get private donations…and we like to give too…but its just not enough…i love living here..the community supports the arts, A LOT. its just not enough at the end of th day with concert halls, artistic directors, soloists, etc etc.. trust me, we Canadians don’t just turn our backs on the arts and assume the government covers it all…we try to help…its just a huge endeavor that requires help from all sides. ---
**Author:** ![percussion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@percussion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/percussion)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/325 "2006-06-27T23:12:44Z")
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking] Thanks Dad. I know it is a free concert. You are a moron, aren’t you. You are still laughing at your own stupidity. Or are you laughing all the way to the asylum ? You really cannot see the point? If 300,000 people go every year and enjoy it, then classical music can be sold in huge numbers. Are you too feeble-minded to get that point? [/QUOTE] i swear to fuck Hellen Keller hada easier time understanding than you do. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/326 "2006-06-27T23:20:35Z")
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking] If 300,000 people go every year and enjoy it, then classical music can be sold in huge numbers. Are you too feeble-minded to get that point? [/QUOTE] How do you think you’re proving that point. I can go out on a busy street corner and give away chapbooks of poetry. That doesn’t mean the same people who will take a free chapbook would give me five dollars, or one, or even a nickel. And it doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t find my freebie scattered up and down the street. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/327 "2006-06-27T23:21:46Z")
[QUOTE=percussion] i swear to fuck Hellen Keller hada easier time understanding than you do. [/QUOTE] I am have troubling understanding this sentence. What on earth do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/328 "2006-06-27T23:23:47Z")
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking] You really cannot see the point? If 300,000 people go every year and enjoy it, then classical music can be sold in huge numbers. Are you too feeble-minded to get that point? [/QUOTE] No, I think the problem is he isn’t feeble-minded _enough_ to get that point. Lots of people will grab something for free that they’d never in a million years pay for out of their own pocket. If there were such a huge paying demand for orchestral music, why aren’t they going to the symphony in droves already? It’s not like you have to be part of a secret club to get tickets. Anyone can go up and buy one. And it’s not like the public doesn’t know the symphony is out there: 300,000 of them will show up if they can hear it for free, so why aren’t they showing up when they have to pay for it? The answer is, they don’t like it quite enough to pay for tickets. Now, any chance of you backing up your thesis about the cinema not being art? Of everything posted in this thread, that was far and away the most… interesting idea advanced, and I’m keen to follow up on it. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/329 "2006-06-27T23:33:54Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] How do you think you’re proving that point. I can go out on a busy street corner and give away chapbooks of poetry. That doesn’t mean the same people who will take a free chapbook would give me five dollars, or one, or even a nickel. And it doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t find my freebie scattered up and down the street. [/QUOTE] My point is that classical music is very popular around the world. Thus it does not need Government funding. If you do not like my example, find another example. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/330 "2006-06-27T23:36:16Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I will again give “Piss Christ” as an example of a work of art that may be acceptable to more liberal, less religious people, such as those in NYC, where I believe the work was exhibited. If New Yorkers want to support that kind of art, they are entitiled to. But I don’t believe that people in another part of the country, who may have different ideas about what kind of art they would like to support, should have to have their taxes go to fund this kind of exhibit. [/QUOTE] But you realize, of course, that the decision to give Andres Serrano a grant was made at the **local** , not the \*\*national \*\* level. The National Endowment for Arts gave a grant to the Southeastern Center for Contemporary Art in Winston-Salem North Carolina to support a local art competition. SECCA then gave money to Serrano after he won the competition. Clearly at least some folks in North Carolina wanted to support “that kind of art” and if other folks in North Carolina didn’t like it should have remained a local problem. Most of the NEA grants are like that. They give the money to local art organizations, not directly to the artists themselves. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/331 "2006-06-27T23:39:01Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Now, any chance of you backing up your thesis about the cinema not being art? Of everything posted in this thread, that was far and away the most… interesting idea advanced, and I’m keen to follow up on it. [/QUOTE] There is a big difference between saying Movies are art, and “stuff like The Maltese Falcon, Gone with the Wind, The Third Man, Rashomon, Psycho, or Lawrence of Arabia. None of that is art, in your view?” That is changing position. It is one thing to say ‘Movies are art’. It is another to say ‘These movies are art.’ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/332 "2006-06-27T23:45:31Z")
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking] My point is that classical music is very popular around the world. Thus it does not need Government funding. If you do not like my example, find another example. [/QUOTE] Uh, why should _we_ find an example to prove _your_ point? > [@](#): > > There is a big difference between saying Movies are art, and “stuff like The Maltese Falcon, Gone with the Wind, The Third Man, Rashomon, Psycho, or Lawrence of Arabia. None of that is art, in your view?” There’s a difference? Really? What is this difference, precisely? > [@](#): > > That is changing position. It is one thing to say ‘Movies are art’. It is another to say ‘These movies are art.’ What? No it isn’t. It’s exactly the same thing. What the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/333 "2006-06-27T23:47:10Z")
Calling Anne Sullivan. Calling Anne Sullivan. ---
**Author:** ![percussion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@percussion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/percussion)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/334 "2006-06-27T23:53:30Z")
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking] I am have troubling understanding this sentence. What on earth do you mean? [/QUOTE] Read the reasons in the 5 or 10 other posts that explain why a FREE symphony concert is not valid repersentation of weather or not the public will finacially support an orchestra. \<\ **Author:** ![percussion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@percussion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/percussion)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/335 "2006-06-27T23:57:51Z") [QUOTE=jsgoddess] Calling Anne Sullivan. Calling Anne Sullivan. [/QUOTE] lol!!! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/336 "2006-06-28T00:19:18Z")
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking] There is a big difference between saying Movies are art, and “stuff like The Maltese Falcon, Gone with the Wind, The Third Man, Rashomon, Psycho, or Lawrence of Arabia. None of that is art, in your view?” That is changing position. It is one thing to say ‘Movies are art’. It is another to say ‘These movies are art.’ [/QUOTE] But you didn’t say “Some movies aren’t art.” You said > [@](#): > > He strangly thinks that movies are art. I do not. which is hard to interpret any other way than “I don’t think movies are art.” ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/337 "2006-06-28T00:31:14Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] But you didn’t say “Some movies aren’t art.” You said which is hard to interpret any other way than “I don’t think movies are art.” [/QUOTE] Yes that is right. I do not think Movies are art. Good deduction, Sherlock. Start another thread, would you. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/338 "2006-06-28T00:32:17Z")
[QUOTE=percussion] Read the reasons in the 5 or 10 other posts that explain why a FREE symphony concert is not valid repersentation of weather or not the public will finacially support an orchestra. \<\ **Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/339 "2006-06-28T00:49:35Z") [QUOTE=blinkingblinking] Yes that is right. I do not think Movies are art. Good deduction, Sherlock. [/QUOTE] Why? Is there something about movies that makes them inherently different from opera or theater? What about a movie like Ken Russell’s [Salome’s Last Dance](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096029/) that’s draws heavily on Wilde’s play? What about Kenneth Branagh’s [Hamlet](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116477/)? What is it about putting the stories on film that makes them not art? > [@](#): > > Start another thread, would you. No, it’s germane to this thread. You seem to have an odd and idiosyncratic definition of what is and is not art, which suggests that your opinion on whether or not public art should be supported isn’t worth much. ---
**Author:** ![percussion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@percussion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/percussion)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131/340 "2006-06-28T00:53:02Z")
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking] Do you honestly spell like that? Or is it some feeble attempt at humour? [/QUOTE] I really spell like that, Is that a real concern or is it some feeble attempt at humour? or sorry whawha whaa whaa wha whaah whaa wha wha whaaaaa whaaa [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/andy-rooneys-modern-art-rant/362131.md?page=18)