# Angel 02/12/03 - Calvary (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686 "2003-02-12T22:57:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/21 "2003-02-13T07:29:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tristan \* > \*\* > Does this mean they have renegotiated the contract, the contract is breaking down, or what? \*\* No, it probably just has something to do with Alexis Denisof. (Think about it.) ---
**Author:** ![CadburyAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@CadburyAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CadburyAngel)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/22 "2003-02-13T08:06:14Z")
\ Willow will be appearing on an upcoming episode of Angel. Apparently she has a slightly shippy moment with Fred, too. \ ---
**Author:** ![kasuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@kasuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kasuo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/23 "2003-02-13T08:21:06Z")
:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/24 "2003-02-13T08:25:30Z")
Is Fred really going to end up with Wes now, or is this just a red herring? I imagine Wes will be pretty busy with the sad next week, and Fred obviously has some issues with him screwing an evil lawyer. I don’t know what this bodes for Gunn: as Angelus noted, his character really had NOTHING going for him except a relationship with Fred (quick, name ANYTHING else presently important about his character!.. … …), and now that’s over, at least for the time being. Is his arc going to be brooding over Fred and frowning at Wes? Just more muscle playing second fiddle to Connor? They really need to give him something to do, something of his own. He hasn’t had a context or an arc other than a ship since his we saw the end of his gang roots last season. ---
**Author:** ![Edwardina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Edwardina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edwardina)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/25 "2003-02-13T08:53:21Z")
I’m really sorry we lost Lilah. Her character added a lot to the show. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/26 "2003-02-13T11:45:33Z")
In other news, has anyone noticed that Cordy has super strength? Showed it twice, once when pushing Angelus back in his cage, and once when grabbing Lilah. I think that pretty much tells us she’s something in disguise. Not to mention her quick recoveries from the wounds. Still, she’s hiding her bad self from Angelus. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/27 "2003-02-13T11:49:02Z")
Excellent episode! My question is… does Angelus know he’s being manipulated by Evil Cordy? Is Evil Cordy just a possessed real Cordy, or is real Cordy still bored, angelic, and pissed off that they think this is her? ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/28 "2003-02-13T13:36:18Z")
**saltire** , not only the skull thing, but it says right in the dictionary “calvary - 2: an experience of unusually intense mental suffering.” Gives you more to think about, eh? But yes, incredible. I am stunned hyow they manage to completely fool us at the end every week. Sure I knew something would be wrong and Angel would still be Angelus, buit the thing with Cordy was totally out of the blue. As for Lilah, yeah, I liked her a lot, too, but as far as the show goes, she herself would say, “Can’t make an omlette …” The Angel writers are doing amazing work this year. Can’t wait to see Faith back in action and then Willow. Man. Very exciting. Tee-hee! ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/29 "2003-02-13T14:01:52Z")
Fantastic episode! I bet in a couple of weeks we’ll see Cordy up in her celestial head-only existence screaming “Guys-- what are you, stupid?” ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/30 "2003-02-13T14:03:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kasuo \* > \*\*I wonder what Faith’s part will be in all of this. Will she be another minion of this mysterious boss? \*\* \ I’m guessing that Faith is going to take on Angelus and that she is then going to jump ship and go to BTVS, after all she is a slayer and all the slayers are supposed to be in sunnydale, right? \ \*\* [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/31 "2003-02-13T14:04:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cheesesteak \* > \*\*Excellent episode! My question is… does Angelus know he’s being manipulated by Evil Cordy? Is Evil Cordy just a possessed real Cordy, or is real Cordy still bored, angelic, and pissed off that they think this is her? \*\* How’s Angelus being manipulated by Evil Cordy? I was thinking that this is all part of the “deal” that Cordy cooked up with him, the “you can have _me_” deal. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/32 "2003-02-13T14:13:46Z")
Ok, I was distracted while watching the show and I wanted to ask about something. Near the end when Cordy has her “vision” and her eyes go white, Lilah is the only person around. Lilah says something like, “Oh, it’s you.” 😕 Did Lilah recognize whatever had taken Cordy’s place? She didn’t seem too worried about it. But then we know what happens to Lilah soon after. Can anyone tell me what that comment meant? ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/33 "2003-02-13T14:17:50Z")
I don’t think she said, “Oh, it’s you.” She was saying something about how the Big Bad was going to take over and that everyone should take the scales off their eyes. Then Cordy has her vision and she she says, “Except for you.” At least thats what I think she said. I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/34 "2003-02-13T14:21:01Z")
Lilah was saying nobody there was going to make a difference against the Big Bad, nobody (name name name) could do anything to stop it or against it, then the white-eyes and the “Oh, it’s you.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/35 "2003-02-13T14:28:32Z")
I was pretty sure that she was telling Cordy that if anyone had scales on their eyes – and then Cordy’s eyes go all white – “it’s you.” But maybe I misheard. For some reason, even though I was half-expecting Cordy’s evilness, it really disturbed me, enough that I had trouble sleeping last night. Great episode! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/36 "2003-02-13T14:42:36Z")
Meatros, it didn’t seem to me that Angelus knew Cordy was evil. He did knock her out in the basement, etc. If he knew Cordy was with him, there would have been no need for that sort of stuff. I’m thinking that Cordy has some plan that will use Angelus for her own devices and he doesn’t have a clue just yet. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/37 "2003-02-13T15:00:04Z")
Also, why stab Lilah in the neck? I thought back to whats-her-name stabbing Conner’s “father” in the neck with the ice pick to make it look like Angel killed him. The knife Cordy used probably wouldn’t make this possible, but is she trying to set up Angelus? If so, why, he clearly would have done it himself. Good episode. I was pretty sure Angelus was still there, but I didn’t see the Cordy thing coming. I liked the shaman’s conversation at the begining “You’re screwed.” Bummer about Lilah, I liked her character. The Beast (or his employer) really doesn’t like W&H, I guess. I think Gunn plays the same role as Xander, but with better fighting skills. He and Wes were a great fighting team, he’s a dependable player, but he’s also an everyman. I’m getting a little tired of love triangles, there are other plots in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/38 "2003-02-13T15:11:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cheesesteak \* > \*\*Meatros, it didn’t seem to me that Angelus knew Cordy was evil. He did knock her out in the basement, etc. If he knew Cordy was with him, there would have been no need for that sort of stuff. I’m thinking that Cordy has some plan that will use Angelus for her own devices and he doesn’t have a clue just yet. \*\* You know, that’s a good point that I hadn’t considered. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/39 "2003-02-13T15:36:07Z")
Great episode! 10/10. As I speculated last week, Cordy is not our Cordy. She is the “Big Bad” nice exposition on this point with the bone knife. Another nice surprise is that it wasn’t Angelus who killed Lilah. The soul restoring spell seemed way too pat-- nice to see it was a set up. Good acting, plot development, and it had a flamethrower-- you got to love that . . . 3 Weeks ☹ ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686/40 "2003-02-13T15:36:56Z")
I really liked this episode, except for the killing Lilah part. I _like_ strong bitchy characters, and the shows always kill off my role models ☹ I found it interesting that Conner was the most skeptical of the “fact” that Angel got his soul back. He should be the one to know Angel the least well, and he was the least fooled. Hmmm. I wasn’t fooled, so it improves my recent track record a bit. I’m looking forward to the next episode in which Cordy will either: pretend to be Cordy and tearfully say how terrible it was to watch Angelus kill Lilah, _or_ start taunting them and openly side with him. Either way would be interesting. \ re no angel next week: did anyone notice that the commercial for Birds of Prey says season finale instead of series finale? That’s a little strange, since the WB is usually pretty clear about that. Hell, they even billed the S5 BtVS finale as “the BtVS WB series finale.” Makes me wonder(worry) if they’ve decided to renew BoP. \ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-02-12-03-calvary-spoilers/154686.md?page=3)