# Angel 03/05/03 - Salvage (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 4, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117 "2003-03-04T23:54:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/61 "2003-03-06T19:18:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SkipMagic \* > \*\*I wonder if Faith will ever come over to my place for a weekend full of bling-bling, blung-blung and blang-blang. > > One can only hope. šŸ˜‰ \*\* Why not? I mean, she did Xander for Ogā€™s sake. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/62 "2003-03-06T19:37:49Z")
And truthfully, the 2nd Season of Buffy is still one of my favorites. But because Buffy has been on as long as it has, and because some of the major characters crossed over to Angel, I think rehashing canā€™t be totally avoided. IMHO, Cordy getting pregnant _again_ is just a silly rehash, no matter what spin they put on it. (Or at least the spins I can imagine right now. I might be eating my foot, crow or hubris if they come up with something fun an cool that explains the necessity in having her with child again.) Angel is a fun show, so Iā€™ll be pretty much happy with whatever they doā€¦ even if they get Cordy pregnant next season. > [@](#): > > Why not? I mean, she did Xander for Ogā€™s sake. Lucky guy. Even if, for the follow-up, she did try to choke him to death. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/63 "2003-03-06T19:40:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Amp \* > \*\*Why not? I mean, she did Xander for Ogā€™s sake. \*\* Does this mean I have a chance too? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/64 "2003-03-06T20:56:01Z")
A couple of things that bothered me about last nightā€™s episode. a. The jail break. Iā€™m pretty sure that in a fairly high-security prison, the glass separating inmates and visitors would be pretty much unbreakable, even by a Slayer. Probably layered plexiglass. Iā€™m also pretty sure that there wouldnā€™t be a convenient window to leap out. So that scene was pretty lame. They might have just held up a sign saying ā€œAnd then Faith escaped.ā€ b. Having Angel kill the Beast in such an offhand way irritated me. But it did establish that Angelus is a loose cannon and not part of Cordeliaā€™s Evil Plan. ``` Given that Charisma Carpenter is pregnant, I'm wondering if they are incorporating that retroactively into the plot so that the whole Beast episode was an excuse for Cordy to get Connor in the sack and have his demon hybrid baby. (Poor Angel -- went from swinging single to GrandDad in couple of years.) ``` ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/65 "2003-03-06T21:42:11Z")
Man, this show is a little like being in a dysfunctional relationship. I keep giving up on it as completely hopeless, but then itā€™ll do something to pull me back in and make me think it can change. Well, Iā€™m hooked again so I guess thereā€™s no point in complaining about it. The episode rocked, until the end. The Wesley & Lilah scenes were really cool ā€“ I especially liked how she said something about his ā€œrogueish good looksā€ after sheā€™d come out and said she was just in his imagination; it proves that heā€™s still got an inflated self-image. The jailbreak couldnā€™t have been better. Iā€™d been expecting a long, convoluted escape sequence, but as soon as she hears Angelus is back, she says, ā€œGet away from the glass.ā€ Perfect way to make Faith AND Angelus look like bad-asses. Cordelia looked more pregnant iin just about every other scene this season than the one in which she revealed sheā€™s pregnant. Iā€™d think if youā€™re writing a pregnancy into the storyline, youā€™d go for a big, full-on Demi-Moore-on-Vanity-Fair style shot instead of a close-up of her stomach. Kudos to the theory that itā€™s the beastā€™s baby, and not Connorā€™s. I thought the ending was lame at first, but in retrospect it kind of makes sense. Angelus wanted to play the beast and Faith against each other until one was down, then kill the winner, leaving him in charge. And the writers _did_ need a way to stall the big showdown between Faith & Angelus. It was just very unsatisfying, the way it played out. My favorite line: ā€œSomething will turn upā€¦ maybe a carpet fiber.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/66 "2003-03-06T21:48:20Z")
What was the deal with Cordyā€™s other pregnancy(s?) you guys keep mentioning? Iā€™ve been watching the show off and on for about a season and a half and have no clueā€¦ Help a girl out. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/67 "2003-03-06T22:00:32Z")
Somehow, being 2nd billed on a tv-show, I canā€™t see Charisma Carpenter getting pregnant, without talking to her bosses. So they probably allowed for that as part of the arc, when plotting the whole season. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/68 "2003-03-06T22:56:59Z")
My WB station didnā€™t show last nightā€™s episode because of a damn basketball game! I didnā€™t get to see Faith return. Stupid UK. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/69 "2003-03-06T23:53:02Z")
**belladonna** , the first season of _Angel_ Cordelia was impregnated by a demon. She got better. I donā€™t know of any other pregnancy sheā€™s had, but my memory isnā€™t perfect. Here are my two hypotheses re: Angel(us), mutually exclusive: 1. Heā€™s Angel, pretending to be Angelus. Lorne correctly detected a soul, but Angel knows thereā€™s a traitor at Team Angel, and hopes that by posing as Angelus he can smoke him/her out. We havenā€™t seen Angel(us) kill any humans; in fact, heā€™s only done violence (that weā€™ve seen) to other demons and the Beast. Well, okay, he threw the crossbow bolt at Cordy, but maybe it was deliberately not a killing strike. We did see him out on the streets looking for prey, and eagerly picked up a child only to discover she was a vamp-child, but maybe he wasnā€™t sure the team hadnā€™t caught up and was watching him. Same with when he came upon Lilahā€™s corpse and said, ā€œWell, thatā€™s no fun.ā€ 1. Alternatively: We know that Angelā€™s (human) soul and Angelusā€™s (demon) spirit usually coexist in one body. Most of the time Angel is in control. Maybe, at the moment, Angelus is ā€œdriving.ā€ That would explain why Lorne detected a soul, even though heā€™s Angelus. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/70 "2003-03-07T00:49:18Z")
I donā€™t think Angel is a good enough actor to pull off Angelus so well for such a long period. Anyway, we know a few facts (I THINK we know): 1)The initial soul removal spell worked 2)The soul was stolen 3)The resouling spell was bogus Ok, if 1 isnā€™t true, then Wes was setting up the deception right from the beginning, which doesnā€™t seem to make any sense, unless they suspected a traitor VERY early. If 2 isnā€™t true, then someone put the soul back without telling anyone, Iā€™m not sure why they would do that. Anyway, Cordy would become VERY suspicious if the soul ā€œvanishedā€ and SHE didnā€™t take it, right? Thereā€™s no way 3 isnā€™t true since Cordy came up with it and sheā€™s the traitor. Given 1, 2 & 3, I think itā€™s really Angelus. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/71 "2003-03-07T01:43:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SolGrundy \* > **The episode rocked, until the end. The Wesley & Lilah scenes were really cool ā€“ I especially liked how she said something about his ā€œrogueish good looksā€ after sheā€™d come out and said she was just in his imagination; it proves that heā€™s still got an inflated self-image.** Or it was The First messing with Wesley. ---
**Author:** ![pure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ab097/32.png) [@pure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pure)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/72 "2003-03-07T03:10:24Z")
Just watched it tonight, wanted to throw my 2 cents in. Some people have mentioned taht they think that itā€™s the Beastā€™s child, which is more likely than it being Connorā€™s. What if itā€™s Connorā€™s AND the Beastā€™s? Connor and the Beast seem to have a connection of some kind, but nobody knows what it is. Seems to me like they are 2 halves of the same whole (yin and yang, good and evil, all that jazz). Now EVIL!Cordy has a little piece of both inside of her. Maybe sheā€™s just the incubator for the product of Connor and the Beast. :eek: It would halp explain why she slept with Connor, and they didnā€™t have her getting some sugar from the beast for no reason. Hey, why assume the Beast has sperm, it could have eggs right? šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/73 "2003-03-07T03:20:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Or it was The First messing with Wesley. This is what I thought when she first sat up. Right up until she touched Wes, I thought they were going for an Apocalypse crossover. Too bad, that might have been cool. ---
**Author:** ![Chocobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Chocobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chocobo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/74 "2003-03-07T06:20:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Horatius \* > \*\*This is what I thought when she first sat up. Right up until she touched Wes, I thought they were going for an Apocalypse crossover. Too bad, that might have been cool. \*\* Well, considering Cordy was a ā€œdivine beingā€ or whatever, itā€™s possible the First was able to manipulate her and bring her back in her original body, but with it in control. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/75 "2003-03-07T06:44:41Z")
Well, hereā€™s some tantalizing news. This Sunday thereā€™s a (probably bad) TV movie on CBS called _Return to the Batcave_. It seems to be in the same genre as that _Gilliganā€™s Island_ reunion from last season; Adam West and Burt Ward play themselves talking about the show, intercut with new footage of actors playing them in the 60s on the set of the _Batman_ TV show. TV Guide Online lists Amy Acker (_Angel_ā€™s Fred) as a castmember of the movie! But, although Iā€™ve gone to the IMDB, the movieā€™s official site and Google, I canā€™t find out what role sheā€™s playing. Iā€™m hoping sheā€™s playing Yvonne-Craig-as-Batgirl. Mmmmā€¦Amy Acker in a Batgirl costumeā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/76 "2003-03-07T08:14:30Z")
I donā€™t buy the Angel is playing Angelus line. First of all, it would make Angelā€™s retarded fantasy sort of inexplicable. It doesnā€™t explain how Angelus knew about the Beast when Angel sincerely didnā€™t seem to. If Angel knew about the anti-Beast witches, he would have sent people to save them long before the Beast got to them. Angelus, however, didnā€™t care. It would also count as one too many convoluted fake-outs on the exact same theme. Iā€™m not saying it couldnā€™t beā€¦ but it would actually be sort of stupid at this point. I like Faith, but her introduction to Team Angel was kind of abrupt and rushed. Iā€™m sure the next two eps will ad a little more to her, but this all seemed a bit hasty for a character whose development weā€™ve missed out on for three seasons. ---
**Author:** ![SwimmingRiddles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SwimmingRiddles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwimmingRiddles)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/77 "2003-03-07T14:08:11Z")
Alright, Iā€™m a passive fan, I enjoy the show a lot, but have only been watching regularly this season. I also donā€™t have cable, so I donā€™t get UPN, so all the references to The First are lost on me. My stupid friend called me during the Faith/Beasty fight scene. When I left, he was kicking her ass. When I came back, she was fighting with Angelus and then she broke the window. So I got that someone had killed the beast, and after reading this thread, I get that it was Angelus. But how EXACTLY? And yes, Connor is whining and annoying. But can we take a minute to discuss the Connor MULLET? Jesus. I donā€™t care what hell-dimension you grow up in, a mullet is NEVER acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![li\_l\_Dickie\_Dirtz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@li\_l\_Dickie\_Dirtz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/li_l_Dickie_Dirtz)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/78 "2003-03-07T14:13:57Z")
Iā€™d just like to say that I appreciated the little touch by the writer(s) having Angelus call Faith ā€œFaithy,ā€ adding a _-y_ that isnā€™t there. Remember, Angelus always called Buffy ā€œBuff,ā€ deleting a _-y_ that is there. It was somehow. . . symmetrical. I enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/79 "2003-03-07T14:19:12Z")
Angelus killed the Beast by stabbing him in the heart with the same weapon that Cordy killed lilah with. Angelus decuded that the only thing that could harm the Beast was himself or something made from him. > [@](#): > > Jesus. I donā€™t care what hell-dimension you grow up in, a mullet is NEVER acceptable. This is a great sig just waiting to be picked up. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117/80 "2003-03-07T14:47:31Z")
I donā€™t think thatā€™s a mullet, **SwimmingRiddles**. Itā€™s just long hair. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-03-05-03-salvage-spoilers/159117.md?page=5)