# Angel 04/23/03 - Sacrifice (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 24, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724 "2003-04-24T00:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/61 "2003-04-25T05:55:22Z")
You mean the one where Buffy goes back in time? ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/62 "2003-04-25T06:12:48Z")
> [@](#): > > It is not the “true name” part that bothered me, but rather that they just happened to stumble into the demon who just happened to have the information they needed and just happened to have a portal to another dimension, etc. That’s the true kickass bit of it. The reason that the demon was here was because Jasmine was here. He was molesting the vampire’s innards to perform a spell to get her attention, remember? One thing I’m curious about: How much of what Jasmine was saying at first does she herself believe? I really really hope that they keep her as genuinely caring for all the people under her influence, and wanting to eradicate all evil. And I really want to know what Conner sees when he looks at Jasmine. It may have been just me, but Conner seemed much more his old whiny self this ep. On Buffy, I’d write off the difference between caring about casual cannibalism and concern for Cordy as poor writing. This is Angel, though. I’m thinking something subtle happened when they did the blood thing to Conner. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/63 "2003-04-25T06:25:45Z")
First, I want to let everyone know that **Gaspode** is easily the coolest guy in all of Sweden. Second, as regards the episode, HOLY CRAP! That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/64 "2003-04-25T07:16:19Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![MattTheCroc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MattTheCroc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MattTheCroc)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/65 "2003-04-25T08:14:00Z")
Angel was the only one to enter the portal because according to Wesley the atmosphere would kill anyone else. What rationale was there for this? If the demon could survive here, presumably we could survive there, and demon dimensions have in the past (Pylea, Quortoth) been conductive to human life. That was my one quibble. Angel is fantastic. Buffy’s pathetic. I don’t see why they’re rushing Angel to have a tie-in with Buffy… it should be the other way round. Hell, just kill off the cast of Buffy so there are no more “errors” between the series… Actually, that just occurred to me. Presumably Jasmine and the First Evil would be aware of one another, and presumably Sunnydale would be getting television reception of Jasmine… why isn’t Sunnydale converting, or is the First Evil doing some blocking spell around Sunnydale, maybe? That would show how weak the FE really is, trying to hold on to one podunk town whilst Jasmine’s out conquering the world. Actually; another thought. Recently both Buffy and Angel (this season, mainly) have started creating situations where the public is aware of supernatural goings-on (the black out, Jasmine, FE badness that hasn’t been shown in any real way); what effect could this have on Angel (since Buffy is being cancelled)? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/66 "2003-04-25T11:16:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MattTheCroc \* > \*\*Angel was the only one to enter the portal because according to Wesley the atmosphere would kill anyone else. What rationale was there for this? If the demon could survive here, presumably we could survive there, and demon dimensions have in the past (Pylea, Quortoth) been conductive to human life. \*\* The demon said something about it when he was talking to Wesley, illustrating how weak humans are. When Wes said only Angel can go, I thought “Oh yeah, the demon mentioned that atmosphere thing…” ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/67 "2003-04-25T12:04:10Z")
**MattTheCroc** , I agree. Then, on the other hand, we could say that Ats and BtVS takes place in parallell JossVerses. The one with Buffy seems to lack its creator, whereas the one with Angel is getting full and devine attention. Or - the writers don’t seem to care about tying in BtVS with the rest of the world, anymore. So why should we, the viewers, be concerned? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/68 "2003-04-25T18:40:22Z")
I just watched the “Sacrifice” episode, and I have one question: why is Jasmine black if she’s the daughter of Connor and Cordy? I love the actress, but the genetics seem to be wrong unless Gunn is the real father. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/69 "2003-04-25T19:43:53Z")
I think you’re thinking way too hard there, **gobear**. But if you insist: Jasmine’s a transcendant being, beyond our concepts of genetics. Or if you’d rather: Cordelia and Connor are both part demon. Maybe their demon-parts are African (perhaps even related to Sweet?). ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/70 "2003-04-25T20:36:05Z")
According to the imdb, Gina Torres is Cuban-American. As far as the show goes, IMO the racial difference between Jasmine and her parents emphasize she’s something not of the earth, not bound to normal human conventions. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/71 "2003-04-25T20:54:52Z")
Fun fact: Gina Torres’s husband is Laurence Fishburne. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/72 "2003-04-25T21:23:03Z")
> [@](#): > > According to the imdb, Gina Torres is Cuban-American. Cuba has the same range of racial phenotypes ar the US, so she can be black and Cuban. I love her portrayal of Jasmine as an alluring, seductive, and totally evil demon. Another question–if all her followers are clicky spider guys, why does she look like a maggot-ridden ghoul in her true form and not also a clicky spider person? I’m going to have to watch Angel in summer reruns now. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/73 "2003-04-25T21:44:27Z")
The clicky spider guys worship her, but they are not of the same race. She is beyond them just as she is beyond humans. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/74 "2003-04-25T21:59:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Telemark \* > \*\*The clicky spider guys worship her, but they are not of the same race. She is beyond them just as she is beyond humans. \*\* Oh, so Jasmine is the incarnation of Cher? ---
**Author:** ![kasuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@kasuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kasuo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/75 "2003-04-25T22:02:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Another question–if all her followers are clicky spider guys, why does she look like a maggot-ridden ghoul in her true form and not also a clicky spider person? \*\* Was there mention she looks like a human to the spider guy? Maybe she has that “I look like your race” effect if they are vulnerable to her spell. Either that, or she may have had more than one form in her past incarnations. ---
**Author:** ![joshmaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a587f6/32.png) [@joshmaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joshmaker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/76 "2003-04-25T22:32:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > No, but I got a feeling of déjà vu from the last half of your post. What tha… huh. I swear it was not like that when I previewed. The ending reminded me of the army of Turok-Han vampire army from the end of the episode “Get It Done” ---
**Author:** ![riserius1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@riserius1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/riserius1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/77 "2003-04-25T23:00:19Z")
One thing that piqued my interest was when Angel reacted to the dimension by saying “Oh, Hell”. Could it be we’re about to get a glimpse of the Hell Dimension was stuck in, lo, these many moons ago?? Just a suggetsion. Chris W ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/78 "2003-04-26T01:19:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by riserius1 \* > \*\*One thing that piqued my interest was when Angel reacted to the dimension by saying “Oh, Hell”. Could it be we’re about to get a glimpse of the Hell Dimension was stuck in, lo, these many moons ago?? > > Just a suggetsion. > > Chris W \*\* Unlikely: those spider guys seem to be the dominant lifeform there, and I think Angel would have recognized the first one he fought right away. They are pretty distinctive looking. Like they’ve said all along, there are a lot of hell dimensions: this is just one more. ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/79 "2003-04-27T00:42:38Z")
What I want to know is, how are they going to wrap this all up in just the two remaining episodes? Especially given that Angel needs to put in an appearance on BtVS shortly. I feel another cliffhanger coming on. Damn it… ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724/80 "2003-04-27T03:20:52Z")
I’m betting on no Jasmine-related cliffhanger though. I’m betting that she’s gone by the end of the season. I mean, maybe they could take the concept to a different place, but Angel this year doesn’t seem to want to stay in any one place long enough to play out a premise beyond its welcome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-04-23-03-sacrifice-spoilers/170724.md?page=5)