# Angel - 1/22/2002 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 23, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380 "2003-01-23T04:53:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/1 "2003-01-23T04:53:37Z")
If no one else wants to start a thread, I’ll give it a shot. Better, not great yet, but better. I still gack at the whole Cordy/Conner plotline, but they’re moving past it. I like the addition of Spandexia, although as a character they should make her more 3 dimensional. Loved the last avatar or whatever they called him. Just a guy, saved a lot of money on special effects. I don’t quite understand the ending, which is fine, they don’t have to spell everything out. Always fun having Angelus back. ---
**Author:** ![Profane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/2 "2003-01-23T05:07:56Z")
My local station pre-emted Angel for college basketball. Could you let me know the episode title for “research” purposes please? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/3 "2003-01-23T06:07:47Z")
“Long Day’s Journey” For **LunaSea** and others who haven’t seen the episode don’t read further. I don’t think discussing an episode that has aired in most places already should need spoiler tags and since I dislike them in general I won’t be using them, instead this paragraph serves as a nice little buffer. That and some blank lines. I liked this episode a lot. Well the idea at least. I was annoyed that Wes didn’t figure out that killing totems of a sun god would maybe turn out the sun. I mean really. If you’re evil and killing beings associated with the sun what are you clearly trying to do? Turn out the sun. This demon is impressively ambitious. Raining down fire, causing earth quakes, killing an evil law firm, blotting out the sun and trying to get Angelus as an ally. Now some gripes. First of all since when can Angelus block memories to Angel? Still if it isn’t the Beast’s doing then I’m going to be sorely dissapointed. This is especially true because Angelus has made serious attempts at destroying the world in his day. I’d think that even Angelus didn’t remember until now. Second, and in fact my only other gripe now that I think about it, is that from the previews it looks like they are pulling that mojo away the soul thing again. Now I admit that this is probably safer. Probably just going to cast Suspend Spell on the soul curse or some such. Oh wait, thrid gripe, ANGELUS ISN’T GOING TO HELP YOU YOU FUCKING MORONS. I mean really. Angel without a soul isn’t exactly anywhere near stable. What do they think they’re going to do to get the info out of him? Especially given the fact that Angelus is going to remember that his soul got taken just to get info out of him it is going to be damn hard to come up with a convincing way for them to get the info. Also I wonder if the darkness will spread to Buffy. That would be kind of cool. My rating 7.5/10. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/4 "2003-01-23T08:23:23Z")
—I was annoyed that Wes didn’t figure out that killing totems of a sun god would maybe turn out the sun.— I was annoyed that he said that the sun was “obliterated.” For goodness sakes: not only did smelly uncle say that WASN’T what would happen, but Wes should know that obliterating the sun would DESTROY LIFE ON EARTH within an hour or so if it exploded, and within a few days if it simply vanished. It’s just blocked out for L.A. at the moment. Also, I’m assuming that the Beast’s consumption of the orb means that killing the Beast will return the sun. ---
**Author:** ![Profane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/5 "2003-01-23T11:43:41Z")
Thanks The Tim, I won’t be reading the thread until I get a chance to see the episode. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/6 "2003-01-23T13:13:01Z")
I actually really liked the episode. I am completely intrigued by the idea that Angelus can, at time, overwhelm Angel. I am also extremely pleased that it may work out that the big bad this year is, in fact, Angelus, and, perhaps, this entire apocalypse was planned by, and, in part, brought about by Angelus. That and I like Spandexia. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/7 "2003-01-23T13:24:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LunaSea \* > \*\*My local station pre-emted Angel for college basketball. Could you let me know the episode title for “research” purposes please? \*\* You know, in my area Angel was pre-empted for Professional basketball. It was the freak’n Wizards…Does _anybody_ watch them? ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/8 "2003-01-23T13:26:48Z")
One point I would like to be cleared up, is W&H no longer a player in things? With the death of the little girl the human employees are cut off from the Senior Partners. So does that mean that we’ve seen the last of their shenanigans? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/9 "2003-01-23T13:35:27Z")
I’d guess that W&H has outlived its usefulness and a plot device. It looked like everyone in the building was a zombie (which is usually a disadvantage, but since they were lawyers, it’s a postive boon). The only one alive is Lila, and she’s on the run from the Beast (though she may come back once he’s defeated). I liked the episode; the plot threads are intriging. I’m glad the brought back Gwen – she was much too interesting a character for a one-shot. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/10 "2003-01-23T13:37:57Z")
In theory, **Amp** , but I’m certain not entirely. And there’s always the lovely Lilah hanging about. So - but eeeeevil guy wiping out the “totems” of Ra to bring darkness to Earth. Anyone else thinking Apophis? 'Course, I was really annoyed with the whole mutilating of the Egyption religeon there to begin with, but eh. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/11 "2003-01-23T13:58:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Tim \* > \*\*" > This demon is impressively ambitious. Raining down fire, causing earth quakes, killing an evil law firm, blotting out the sun and trying to get Angelus as an ally. > > Now some gripes. First of all since when can Angelus block memories to Angel? Still if it isn’t the Beast’s doing then I’m going to be sorely dissapointed. This is especially true because Angelus has made serious attempts at destroying the world in his day. I’d think that even Angelus didn’t remember until now. Second, and in fact my only other gripe now that I think about it, is that from the previews it looks like they are pulling that mojo away the soul thing again. Now I admit that this is probably safer. Probably just going to cast Suspend Spell on the soul curse or some such. Oh wait, thrid gripe, ANGELUS ISN’T GOING TO HELP YOU YOU FUCKING MORONS. I mean really. Angel without a soul isn’t exactly anywhere near stable. What do they think they’re going to do to get the info out of him? Especially given the fact that Angelus is going to remember that his soul got taken just to get info out of him it is going to be damn hard to come up with a convincing way for them to get the info. > > . \*\* Ahh, but remember Season 2 young grasshopper. In the Season 2 finale, when Angel was restored he did not remember what happened during the period he was Angelus. And then Buffy killed him. 😉 Spike was full on evil in the same episode and he cooperated with Buffy, as it was in his interest to do so. Thus it is a possibility (however unlikely it seems at the outset). In any event they have to try something, and restoring Angel’s soul seem relatively easy. As a less then powerful (at the time-- season 2 remember) witch was able to restore Angel’s soul with the translated spell (which they still have) and the orb (which was described as common- most people, including Giles, using them as paperweights). So turning Angel into Angelus seem like a worthy gambit, especially with the world ending and all. Of course, this is Angel. Nothing goes as planned. Fasten your seatbelts . . . . My rating 8/10. Random thought- who has to boink Angel to turn him bad? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/12 "2003-01-23T14:03:04Z")
I thought Angel was on Thursdays now! WTF?! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/13 "2003-01-23T14:52:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thinksnow \* > \*\*I thought Angel was on Thursdays now! WTF?! \*\* Nope, Wed at 9, opposite The West Wing. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/14 "2003-01-23T14:59:15Z")
Nope, Wednesday, which is good because I finally have something to watch now in the middle of the week. And is it just me or is everyone else getting sick and tired of all the motivational speeches on both Buffy and Angel? God, enough of the, “Yeah, we’re outnumbered, outgunned, and we’ve been beaten down but we are the good guys so lets win” speeches. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/15 "2003-01-23T15:03:25Z")
Today is our Independence Day!!! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/16 "2003-01-23T15:36:47Z")
Well, they probably aren’t bright enough to point this out to Angelus, but if the earth goes dark and stays dark, pretty soon there won’t be any tasty things to snack on walking around. Don’t remember where it’s from, but it had the line, “Smartest man on the planet? Well, soon you’ll be the smartest man on the cinder.” Except this time it’ll be an ice cube. But, as I said, the people of the Buffyverse have been portrayed as pretty stupefyingly dumb–they’re getting whipped all into a frenzy over in Sunnydale wondering who’s going to be the next slayer when Buffy dies… hello? She’s died twice, remember? First time, Kendra. Second time, no new slayer. Gah. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/17 "2003-01-23T15:57:59Z")
What was Wesley’s line? “As evil plans go, this one doesn’t suck.” Nice droll humor. Anyone have good theories about who and how they killed smelly uncle guy? Did Angel(us) spike the drinks while under the influence of the Beast? I still think it could have been Spandexia, but that seems to have been dropped. How did the door get opened without her? Hrmm, perhaps vampires with souls are more prone to being controlled by evil powers? First Spike, now Angel. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/18 "2003-01-23T15:58:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Amp \* > \*\*Nope, Wednesday, which is good because I finally have something to watch now in the middle of the week. And is it just me or is everyone else getting sick and tired of all the motivational speeches on both Buffy and Angel? God, enough of the, “Yeah, we’re outnumbered, outgunned, and we’ve been beaten down but we are the good guys so lets win” speeches. \*\* Umm did you watch the same Angel I did? The speech was played for laughs, both in how (1) lame Angel’s attempted “leadership” speech was, (2) how poorly the rest of the gang reacted to it. On Buffy, it was one true rah rah speech (well done), one object lesson (meh), and one commiseration between the non-superpowered (superb). To your other point, wednesday at 9 is good (but Tuesday at 9 would have been great). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/19 "2003-01-23T16:08:15Z")
Big Evil Guy was poking around inside Lilah in last weeks episode. Is this importan, in view of what we found out this week? And I still wonder about the connection to Connor. Since the Creature fom the Black… eh demon guy, just threw him away. And Yeah - Spandexia. A very interesting character. The idea is so good, I’m thinking she could star in a spin-off. You know - beautiful, superpowers, but can never know love in a physical way. It’s no more stupid, than a 15 y.o. Valley Girl who slays vampires. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/20 "2003-01-23T16:17:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > \*\*And Yeah - Spandexia. A very interesting character. The idea is so good, I’m thinking she could star in a spin-off. You know - beautiful, superpowers, but can never know love in a physical way. It’s no more stupid, than a 15 y.o. Valley Girl who slays vampires. \*\* Rogue anyone? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380.md?page=2)