# Angel - 1/22/2002 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 23, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380 "2003-01-23T04:53:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/21 "2003-01-23T16:19:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*Umm did you watch the same Angel I did? The speech was played for laughs, both in how (1) lame Angel’s attempted “leadership” speech was, (2) how poorly the rest of the gang reacted to it. > > On Buffy, it was one true rah rah speech (well done), one object lesson (meh), and one commiseration between the non-superpowered (superb). > > To your other point, wednesday at 9 is good (but Tuesday at 9 would have been great). 🙂 \*\* Yeah but it was still annoying and I didn’t really find it amusing. And in Buffy it seems this past weeks episode was nothing but on long training speech. But you are right it being better if they moved it back to Tuesdays at 9. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/22 "2003-01-23T16:38:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Amp \* > \*\*Yeah but it was still annoying and I didn’t really find it amusing. And in Buffy it seems this past weeks episode was nothing but on long training speech. > > But you are right it being better if they moved it back to Tuesdays at 9. 🙂 \*\* Fair enough. I can see your point. I thought it was funny after all the motivational talks on Buffy. The reactions of the much more experienced Angel crew were amusing to me. It seemed this week’s Buffy was all a long set up for the payoff of the last 10 minutes of the episode. BvTS’ the “first evil” is a bit lame as a big bad. This demon is getting the job done with a bit of style- you have to admire that. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/23 "2003-01-23T16:48:30Z")
Did we ever find out what the Beast is and why it’s here? Also, why did everyone begin to refer to it as the Beast at once? Oooh, ooh, I’ve got it. The beast is the first good! Waxed evil lawyers = good. We never actually saw it kill the yuppies in the temple of flesh. Now, it’s going to lure all of the vampires and evil wossnames into broad darkness, stick his talon down his throat, and deep-daylight-fry them. Plus, him as a threat has caused the Angel gang to pull together. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/24 "2003-01-23T17:23:44Z")
> [@](#): > > I was annoyed that he said that the sun was “obliterated.” Maybe I’m way off here, but I thought he said “obliterated” in the sense of “blotted out,” not “destroyed”. I think the sun’s still there, but it’s been eclipsed by Evil thanks to a nasty spell. Another worrying thing about it is that now Angelus will be able to walk around anytime, what with no sunlight to set him smokin’. And I think it’s pretty clear that Angelus won’t stay behind bars for long. Who is Spandexia? I must have missed the episode(s) where she was established. Cordy + Connor = weird and creepy, and they can’t stop talking about it soon enough (although with Charisma pregnant, I think it’s never really going to go away. I just wish they’d kept Gru around for this, instead of hooking up Conner and Cordy). Lorne rocks. Even if he only has a line or two, it’s always worthwhile to see what he’ll say. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/25 "2003-01-23T18:46:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LunaSea \* > \*\*My local station pre-emted Angel for college basketball. Could you let me know the episode title for “research” purposes please? \*\* Ours was preempted as well – but I checked the [TVGuide.com](http://TVGuide.com) listings and found out that they had the episode on at 11 pm. Not to make you kick yourself or anything, but you may want to check those listings next time this hapens (and I’m sure there’ll be a next time – I missed a lot of Angel last year because of stupid sports). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/26 "2003-01-23T20:00:53Z")
Speaking of Gru, I know he left but where did he go? Did he go back to his home dimension or is he still on Earth? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/27 "2003-01-23T21:06:31Z")
—We never actually saw it kill the yuppies in the temple of flesh.— Sure… that dead guy he was holding by the foot (and then carelessly tossed away) was just what he found when he came in to find everyone murdered. “Uh, officers, I know how this all looks, but I was just trying to see if there was a clue underneath this dead guy here…” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/28 "2003-01-23T21:15:28Z")
“oh, and by the way, look at this neat spell I just happen to be able to cast if I smack my fist down into the center of the square…” ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/29 "2003-01-23T21:22:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Tim \* > \*\*“Long Day’s Journey” > > \ Oh wait, thrid gripe, ANGELUS ISN’T GOING TO HELP YOU YOU FUCKING MORONS. I mean really. Angel without a soul isn’t exactly anywhere near stable. What do they think they’re going to do to get the info out of him? Especially given the fact that Angelus is going to remember that his soul got taken just to get info out of him it is going to be damn hard to come up with a convincing way for them to get the info. > \ \*\* I’ve been wondering the same thing. How are they gonna control him? With one of those lasso-on-a-stick thingys they use on _The Crocodile Hunter_ and a cattle prod? Maybe a Hannibal Lecter-type full body restraint. Although Kralik made short work of his, back in Sunnydale that one time… I know the Sun is blocked out and desperate times call for desperate measures, but do they really think that Angelus is gonna stick around with Scoobies TNG? Does one psychotic vamp with a penchant for psychological torture really stand a better chance of undoing the Sun-blocking spell and defeating The Beast, than a level-headed if broody vamp who has his very own band of nerds? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/30 "2003-01-23T21:33:23Z")
Some pointless, shallow observations: 1. Spandexia is a nice foil to Cordy. Spandexia and Angel have a lot more chemistry than Angel and Cordy. Spandexia is kick-ass fit AND sharp as a razor – just like some other chick we all know. 🙂 2. I generally like men in long hair. I’m thinking Mel Gibson, Daniel Day-Lewis, Oded Fehr, Steve Perry with their hair long. Yum. However, David Boreanaz (as Angelus) just looks stupid in his long wig. And you’d think that with his good bones, he’d look sweet. (I told you this was pointless and shallow commentary) 3. Wasn’t the orb that the beast swallowed a replica of the sun? Does that mean they can “restore” the sun by removing it from his gut and, I don’t know, casting a solar cleansing spell on it? (Or perhaps they could spray it with Windex a la “My Big Fat, Greek Wedding”?) 4. Did NOBODY else notice that the sun went out? 5. I missed Lila. She’s a great villain. She and Wes are hot! 6. I want Lorne to single handedly save the world. He’s such a pacifist. Just for once I want to see him do a round house kick on a beast. 7. I’m getting the distinct impression that Connor is doomed this season. Perhaps he’ll sacrifice himself to restore his father’s oft-departed soul… ---
**Author:** ![Profane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/31 "2003-01-23T21:52:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > \*\*Ours was preempted as well – but I checked the [TVGuide.com](http://TVGuide.com) listings and found out that they had the episode on at 11 pm. Not to make you kick yourself or anything, but you may want to check those listings next time this hapens (and I’m sure there’ll be a next time – I missed a lot of Angel last year because of stupid sports). > > Daniel \*\* I checked the local’s website, it said they were showing the same old reruns as usual. They never rebroadcast anything. This is the same station that made me miss all the March episodes of Buffy ever year. Bastiges. I was glad when Buffy moved to UPN. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/32 "2003-01-23T22:06:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \* > \*\*6) I want Lorne to single handedly save the world. He’s such a pacifist. Just for once I want to see him do a round house kick on a beast. \*\* Or sing one loud, incredibly shrill note that (a) shatters the crystal and breaks the spell, and (b) kills the Beast. Hey. They’ve killed people sillier ways in the Buffyverse. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/33 "2003-01-23T22:06:26Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. I’m getting the distinct impression that Connor is doomed this season. Perhaps he’ll sacrifice himself to restore his father’s oft-departed soul… ::Crosses fingers:: Oh please, oh please, oh please… ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/34 "2003-01-23T23:02:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \* > \*\* > > 1. Spandexia is a nice foil to Cordy. Spandexia and Angel have a lot more chemistry than Angel and Cordy. Spandexia is kick-ass fit AND sharp as a razor – just like some other chick we all know. :)\*\* I sincerely like the character Cordelia Chase. And I think Charisma is a total babe. However. I agree with you on this one. Angel needs a girl who’s nasty, bad-gurl, bitch. Gwen is all of that, and so the sparks fly. The same with the Buffster. She’s quite a bitch too. Cordy is just too nice, nowadays. Younger, bitchy Cordy - that would work. But not where the writers have taken her. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/35 "2003-01-24T01:08:20Z")
Some stuff. 1. Angelus doesn’t care if the world is destroyed. He tried to do it before. The Spike argument of “Happy meals with legs.” is lost on him. This may or may not be connected with the fact that Angelus has not a shred of humanity in him. 2. Angel remembers what he does as Angelus. A side effect of the spell to restore his soul is that he is disoriented and without memory for a little while. The old gypsy man who told him about it the first time explained that to him. He was running in the woods and totally without a clue as to what was going on and then suddenly he remembers being a grade A lunatic. 3. I think other people did notice the sun going poof. It is a local effect for now. The sun has been mythically obscured or murdered and so while its light giving and symbolic powers are gone it is still functioning as a stellar body. 4. Obliterate means blot out when blot out means totally remove. They are not perfectly interchangable. It is possible that obliterate does have a better match with blot out in what ever dialect Wes speaks. It bothered me a little as it smelt of sloppy thesaurus use. 5. I think smashing the orb is enough to release the dusk that the little girl had held and was then placed in the orb. Once it is out the sun should no longer be blocked. On the other hand maybe smashing it just makes things worse. 6. Restoring Angel’s soul may be trickier than thought. Willow had the potential to be a powerful witch and there was a distinct appearance of something seizing control of Willow and allowing her to complete the ritual in its untranslated form. However we saw in the previews an individual like the one the mayor got to remove Angel’s soul by magic. Given that whoever these jokers are they can remove souls, as well as do really nifty light shows, they can probably either put it back or just sort of supress it. I wager that is going to be the method used. This makes me wonder. It is clearly possible to manipulate souls without resorting to conditional curses. Might it not be good for Angel to get his soul permanently put in. That way he no longer has to worry about his soul vanishing. It also seems that a champion who has a real hold on his soul is more valuable than one who is afflicted with it. Ya, ya, I get the dramatic point of having someone literally saddled with their sense of ethics and all that. Still it is more practical to buy instead of rent in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/36 "2003-01-24T01:17:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > \*\*I sincerely like the character Cordelia Chase. And I think Charisma is a total babe. However. I agree with you on this one. Angel needs a girl who’s nasty, bad-gurl, bitch. Gwen is all of that, and so the sparks fly. The same with the Buffster. She’s quite a bitch too. Cordy is just too nice, nowadays. > Younger, bitchy Cordy - that would work. But not where the writers have taken her. \*\* One thing I really liked about last night’s episode was Cordelia being bitchy towards Gwen. I missed Bitchy Cordy. She was so much more likeable when she was unlikeable. ---
**Author:** ![kasuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@kasuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kasuo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/37 "2003-01-24T01:31:24Z")
Upon watching the last fight in this episode, it seemed so RPG-ish how Angel, Gunn and Elec-Girl were fighting the Beast while Wesley and Fred were casting the portal spell. Hmm… maybe this should be turned into a d20-type game… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/38 "2003-01-24T15:49:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kasuo \* > \*\*Upon watching the last fight in this episode, it seemed so RPG-ish how Angel, Gunn and Elec-Girl were fighting the Beast while Wesley and Fred were casting the portal spell. > > Hmm… maybe this should be turned into a d20-type game… \*\* Don’t know if you were being sarcastic or something, but [viola.](http://www.scoopme.com/news/news.asp?news_id=4062) ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/39 "2003-01-24T16:02:24Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by me:_ > Who is Spandexia? I must have missed the episode(s) where she was established. Anyone? Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380/40 "2003-01-24T16:21:10Z")
[http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Episode/0,8201,||1088,00.html](http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Episode/0,8201,%7C%7C1088,00.html) Gwen was in one of the first couple of episodes while Cordy was still missing. She is a master thief who has the X-Men type mutation of being _highly_ electrically charged. Angel and Co. ran into her while both were trying to swipe a thingee that can locate people who are missing. They get into a fight and Gwen kills Gunn, but then revives him by jump-starting his heart. Later Angel and Gwen get into a one-on-one fight cum make-out session. Gwen’s electric powers make Angel’s heart start pumping. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-1-22-2002/150380.md?page=3)