# Angel 4/16/03 \[spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 17, 2003, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227 "2003-04-17T02:17:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/21 "2003-04-17T12:05:11Z")
Chalk me up with the “spell is broken, but Conner is in denial” theory. Also, apparently Jasmine will be rather hard to kill, as she can heal wounds and eat people. Hmm. I wonder what happens if Anger tried to feed on her? ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/22 "2003-04-17T12:21:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\*Hmm. I wonder what happens if Anger tried to feed on her? \*\* I wondered about that, too. In fact, before this episode, I thought that was how Angel was going to see the **TRUTH** ; I thought maybe Jasmine was going to offer up a droplet or two as a reward and then… Zap! Or Ping! Or Wham! Or maybe just a “Huh. Your pretty puss now looks like the Chinese take-out maggots from _The Lost Boys_.” I _do_ like how Fred led Angel to the light, however. Pretty snazzy. I also agree with the denial thing concerning Connor. I think Vincent does an excellent job playing an angst-ridden teen, but shouldn’t someone who grew up in a Hell dimension be a bit more mature than how he has acted since the beginning? ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/23 "2003-04-17T12:28:57Z")
My favorite line: “I ate them,” delivered with that beatific smile. Great, great, great episode. Jasmine is so damn creepy. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/24 "2003-04-17T12:51:26Z")
I thought the episode was top notch. I busted out laughing because of Angel’s stealthiness through the window. Connor however remains ignorant. I agree Vincent is doing a good job and the writing is great-but Connor is really ignorant sometimes… He always wants to kill his father and all… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/25 "2003-04-17T12:56:53Z")
Damn, I was hoping I’d be the first to posit the “Connor was cured!” theory. I definitely thought the cure worked on Connor, but the poor dumbshit is so mistrustful of everyone that he didn’t believe he was “cured.” All he knows is that the people whom Jasmine said were lost to them just did a ritual on him that cut him off from Jasmine’s love. For him, that’s the worst thing ever, and given his history of being betrayed by everyone he knows (“Dad” tied him to trees and ran away, Angel “killed” his “Dad”, Cordelia fucked him five ways from Sunday, etc.), he assumes that it’s yet another betrayal. So he may be cut off from Jasmine’s love, he thinks, but she’s still all he’s got, and he’ll keep on serving her even if he can’t feel her any longer. He’s a horrible little guy, but he’s got reasons for his awfulness. Wonderful episode! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/26 "2003-04-17T13:17:01Z")
I think Connor has always been able to see Jasmine as a decaying thing. So he’s already “cured” because he fathered her. But he’s so messed up and twisted inside, he doesn’t want to believe she’s evil. For him to be “good” and a champion, Jasmine has to be doing good. Just my thoughts, but Connor needs a lot more than a smear of blood to fix what’s twisted in his head. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/27 "2003-04-17T13:54:32Z")
I don’t think Connor has been pretending to be in a worshipful thrall. Additionally he is part of the connectivity so he has to be under the influence in someway. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/28 "2003-04-17T14:11:05Z")
Eh, I hope he dies. Anyway, Fred-centric was good. As someone earlier mentioned (Miller?), could we be filled in on the first quarter of the episode? We had a power-outage and I missed the first 15 minutes. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/29 "2003-04-17T14:15:03Z")
Heh… reading over this thread, I just realized why the episode was named “The Magic Bullet”… You know, bullet cures Angel… and Jasmine tells Conspiracy Guy (Anyone else think he didn’t leave the store as it burned?) there was only one shooter… Okay, so it’s early, and I’m tired. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/30 "2003-04-17T14:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lightnin’ \* > \*\*Heh… reading over this thread, I just realized why the episode was named “The Magic Bullet”… > > You know, bullet cures Angel… and Jasmine tells Conspiracy Guy (Anyone else think he didn’t leave the store as it burned?) there was only one shooter… > > Okay, so it’s early, and I’m tired. 🙂 \*\* Either that, or someone had [syphillis.](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0032413) ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/31 "2003-04-17T14:54:06Z")
Wow. I have to agree with everything stated above, another truly stunning episode. Great writing, acting and direction. I love how everyone is vital to the plot and actually matters. Next week looks fun. 10/10. Being spoiler free has really made this a wonderful roller coaster ride. At the end of the show, I really **hated** Connor. The fact that I was so wrapped up in the story and felt that way is a credit to the writers (unlike say Buffy, where the dislike is based on the horrible “acting” and that these crappy actors- i.e. Kennedy and the rest of the stupid SITs- are sucking the joy out of one of my previous favorites). ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/32 "2003-04-17T15:22:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\* > > I busted out laughing because of Angel’s stealthiness through the window. > > \*\* It was a nice parallel with the Buffy episode where she’s in the vulcanologist’s apartment and Angel nearly takes a digger approaching the door. I always almost piss myself when I see that. I realized I like Jasmine so much because she reminds me of the Mayor, perhaps my favorite Bad of the bunch. They both have a benevolent facade with the serious evil underneath, and big nasty plans involving some major mojo. Jasmine’s a whole lot creepier, though, mainly because Gina Torres is such a beautiful woman and I find myself falling into the cadence of her voice and nodding along. I can understand completely how everyone buys into her. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/33 "2003-04-17T15:36:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > \*\*I don’t know why y’all used spoiler tags; the episode has already aired! > > I’m puzzled about the way the Fang Gang was cured. When Fred was exposed to Jasmine’s blood, the spell was broken, but not until she next saw Jasmine. > > When Angel was exposed to Jasmine’s blood, the spell was broken…but not until he next saw Jasmine. > > But when Lorne, Gunn and Wesley were exposed to the Cordblood, the spell was broken immediately. Why the difference? > > \*\* I was thinking the exact same thing. What is up with this? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/34 "2003-04-17T16:17:53Z")
Augh! I taped the wrong channel! Can somebody recap please?! ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/35 "2003-04-17T17:32:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mahaloth \* > \*\*I was thinking the exact same thing. What is up with this? \*\* Thought it was this: > [@](#): > > Aired on the west coast, so spoiler free from here on out: ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/36 "2003-04-17T17:39:10Z")
Another thing I want to know is what everyone means by “the lie” and how they’ve been decieved. It seems like they KNOW something more than just that Jasmine isn’t pretty. I mean, sure seeing a rotting maggoty corpse is not nice, but it doesn’t exactly scream “big evil/huge deception!” in the way that the FG seems to be talking about it. They seem to know instinctively that she’s truly evil. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![Lyllyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@Lyllyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lyllyan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/37 "2003-04-17T18:00:18Z")
**The Devil’s Grandmother** go here. [http://www.angelsacolyte.com/epguides4/19bullet.html](http://www.angelsacolyte.com/epguides4/19bullet.html) ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/38 "2003-04-17T18:27:44Z")
I think it’s the bond thingy. As you feel the bond more and more, it becomes more noticable when you lose it. Also, remember that Angel and Fred didn’t know anything was happening. When someone starts playing with your blood, than you kind of expect something to happen. In the Angelverse, at least. Also, perhaps Cordelia’s blood is different? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/39 "2003-04-17T19:58:42Z")
10/10 Angel is the most entertaining show on television, IMHO. I have gladly given up the West Wing ever since it became preachy. The cast has great chemistry and the writing is superb. I wish I would have taped this episode! I guess I’ll just have to wait til Season 4 comes out on DVD. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227/40 "2003-04-17T21:03:34Z")
elf6c, I was talking about the whole “delayed” or “not delayed” reaction to the realization of Jasmime’s evilness, not the spoiler boxes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-4-16-03-spoilers/169227.md?page=3)