# Angel 5/5 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667 "2004-05-05T17:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/61 "2004-05-06T23:17:30Z")
At the end, when Andrew is talking to Spike and Angel while changing into his tux, it sounded to me like he was repeating somebody else’s words. I half expected them to leave the apartment, and Buffy to come out of the back bedroom and thank Andrew for getting rid of them for her. Oh, and for the record, I don’t believe for a second that Andrew isn’t gay. Lot of gay guys go out clubbing with hot straight girls. Especially in pairs. All three of 'em were going out looking for cute guys, is my bet. He certainly wasn’t dating both of them _at the same time_. Who do you think he is, The Immortal? The two girls were probably Slayers, too. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/62 "2004-05-06T23:24:30Z")
I agree with both of the last assessments. Introducing Spike was problematic to the whole theme of Angel. Here you have _another_ vampire with a soul who wants to be a champion of humanity. It kind of “neutred” Angel in a way. I really do like Spike. As **Thea** said Spike had really developed as a character during Buffy’s S6 and S7. Even when he was Ghosty Spike, he was interesting, trying to snarky, but being scared and vulnerable about his predicament and still very much a _mature_ character. I always thought it would have been better to have the Shanshu prophecy fulfilled by Spike as a result of the Buffy finale. Unghostified, Spike woud have been _human_ and still a champion at heart (then you could revamp him, cyborg him, Illyria him, mutate him, whatever arc you want). That would have added an interesting dimension to Angel. Oops! Captain Forehead missed out on the prophecy, he _could have_ been the one wearing the amulet and bursting into flames back in Sunnydale. He _should have_ been the one, but he gave the amulet to Bufy and indirectly to the skinny blond vamp instead. Now look what happened! Prophecy fulfilled. Angel missed the boat. His rapport with Spike would have been much more interesting. His future much more uncertain with redemption and human much more remote than he’d dared look forward to. No more Shanshu loose ends. And despite all his friends, Angel would ultimately be alone in his quest and not “one of the two souled vamps.” Also, the whole working for WR&H never rang true for me. The big, corporate office environment never felt quite right. The Jossverse has always worked better when it was the little, ragtag crew agaist the much bigger baddies. Imagine Firefly taking place on the Enterprise. Yuck. Same thing. The corporate environment had the wrong vibe for me, except for when they really actively made fun of it (Numero Cinco and some of Harmony’s shenanigans). ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/63 "2004-05-07T00:17:02Z")
What irked me about the show is that it morphed back into BtVS mode. Don’t get me wrong, I loved BtVS (at least the first five seasons); It was glib and fun and sassy, which was perfect for its setting (a high school). Angel, on the other hand, was successful IMO because it didn’t try to recreate Sunnydale in L.A. It had its own unique flavor. Angel was a much darker character and his show was much more adult than Buffy. Why they decided last night to return to the Buffy-type humor is beyond me. The beauty of Angel was his mystery, his pathos, his utter coolness. Turning him back into a angst-ridden teenager was not becoming to his character or the show. They should have stayed on track and wrapped up the Buffy sub-plot if and when they had an opportunity to do it right. To do it with SMG’s hair was just downright stupid and certainly wasn’t a satisfying end to either man’s relationship with her. The episode where Cordy returns from the “dead” was a much better “wrap-up the relationship” episode IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/64 "2004-05-07T01:04:07Z")
OMG God!!! :eek: ☹ I was just accidentally\* spoiled for a major plot point from the end of Angel (don’t know if it’s next episode or the last). Do not click the spoiler box if you don’t really want to be spoiled Wesley dies!!! Nooooooooooooooooooooo Please tell me it isn’t so. I don’t think I can bear it! \*No, really. I was trying to avoid spoilers for the last half of the season, but I still like spoilers for other shows and this one was asked and answered before I had a chance to scroll past. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/65 "2004-05-07T01:10:38Z")
Yep. That’s what I’m hearing, too. Last episode. :eek: :mad: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/66 "2004-05-07T01:16:31Z")
Yes, **Mauvaise**. It’s a real spoiler. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/67 "2004-05-07T01:50:11Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Yes, **Mauvaise**. It’s a real spoiler. ☹☹☹☹ That’s just too horrible to contemplate. I’m actually sad right now. Without giving away details - do they do him justice? Also - do you know if the finale is two hours or one? ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/68 "2004-05-07T02:53:48Z")
_I will not look I will not look I will not look_ :wally ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/69 "2004-05-07T03:27:13Z")
Yeesh. First of all, I hate my local cable. We don’t get the WB so I have to wait an extra day to watch it on some weird local channel with awful picture and sound quality. That said, I was stunned by the utter suckiness of this episode. I won’t go into detail since everyone has pretty much nailed exactly what I hated (and a few things I liked) about it, but I will say that I was bored out of my skull the entire time. That was probably one of the longest hours of Joss-TV that I’ve ever sat through. I mean… yikes; I didn’t think it was funny, interesting, or really entertaining in any way. I had no idea why characters were acting like they were and aside from anger at more Andrew, I didn’t really care. The stuff with Fred’s parents (and I, too, cannot believe no one told them their daughter died) could have been interesting, but I cared so little about Angel and Spike’s madcap Italian romp that I couldn’t maintain my interests between Fred scenes. I am… really, quite astounded at how awful I thought this episode was. I mean, I don’t know after just one viewing if I dislike it as much as… I dunno, almost all of Buffy season 6, but it’s definitely a contender. I am totally unspoiled for the last two eps, and I’m still looking forward to them. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/70 "2004-05-07T04:07:36Z")
> [@mbacko1](#): > > Let’s start some speculation about tonight’s episode. > > Will Spike and Angel fall in love in Italy? > > Will Nelson from the Simpsons see them riding the bike together and go “Haw-hah?” > > Will the dancing blond hair in the club be Buffy Stunt Double, Buffy played by Geller (surprise), or just someone who looks like Buffy but isn’t? > > What does Italy have to do with the ever approaching end of the series? > > Seriously, > I want to see some things get tied up before the series ends but I am a bit concerned that there is too much going on from before the show got cancelled for them to have some closure. I’m hoping for some Angel or Whedonverse movie next season, but at this point I’m not getting my hopes too high. Network TV is turning into a reality TV, CSI (1,2,3), and Law and Order landscape and TV shows like Angel and Buffy where the plot unfolds over time are being regulated to cable where they are given a set time slot, allowed to grow, and are given more artistic freedom, ie The Shield, Sopranos, Deadwood. Maybe the rumors of a TNT Angel movie are a good thing. > > 3 more episodes left! > > Mike My impression of Angel this week. Angel and Spike are sorely disappointed that _The Immortal_ did not make them his bitches! ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/71 "2004-05-07T05:03:21Z")
> [@Mauvaise](#): > > ☹☹☹☹ > > That’s just too horrible to contemplate. I’m actually sad right now. Without giving away details - do they do him justice? > > Also - do you know if the finale is two hours or one? It’s really sad…Basically everybody is given an assignment and Wes doesn’t pull his off. The summary is always pretty damned vague, so I don’t know the exact details of the fight of how he loses. Episode 21 **Power Play** and 22 **Not Fade Away** are both 1 hour long, but it’s a 2 parter. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/72 "2004-05-07T07:39:00Z")
**Pepperlandgirl** , since I’ve read the same spoilers you have, I’ll ask you a question in the spoilerbox (warning - additional spoilage): That and the other main character that dies - doesn’t this make it rather unlikely that the rumour about made for tv movies is true? ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/73 "2004-05-07T08:13:49Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > **Pepperlandgirl** , since I’ve read the same spoilers you have, I’ll ask you a question in the spoilerbox (warning - additional spoilage): > > That and the other main character that dies - doesn’t this make it rather unlikely that the rumour about made for tv movies is true? As if people stay dead forever on this show. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/74 "2004-05-07T13:45:20Z")
That’ll teach me to C&P this thing to Word so I can read offline- I just caught all the spoilers. ☹ :smack: I liked it. It wrapped something that _needed_ wrapped up, it was hellafunny, it had some amazing cleavage (which is always appreciated) and the Fred/Illyria parts were just mind-blowing. What I’ve noticed quite a bit in the last few eps is the message: get going, get on with your life and _GET. GOING!_ Way too much funny. Ciao. Ciao. Ciao. Kisskiss. Prego. Now, we will speak no more of it. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/75 "2004-05-07T16:04:37Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > As if people stay dead forever on this show. And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why spoiler boxes were invented. Thanks a heap, **ouryL**. Either learn how to use spoiler boxes or don’t post anything that could constitute a spoiler. ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/76 "2004-05-07T18:22:04Z")
I didn’t know this until this photo popped up on Yahoo news today… [Cordy’s on the cover of Playboy](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040506/ids_photos_en/r3997254293.jpg&e=8) ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/77 "2004-05-07T18:31:01Z")
> [@DeVena](#): > > I didn’t know this until this photo popped up on Yahoo news today… > > [Cordy’s on the cover of Playboy](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040506/ids_photos_en/r3997254293.jpg&e=8) This is the second straight year that they have bumped the Playmate of the Year off the cover. And they had been giving the Playmate of the Year the cover since I can remember. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/78 "2004-05-07T18:54:14Z")
> [@DeVena](#): > > [Cordy’s on the cover of Playboy](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040506/ids_photos_en/r3997254293.jpg&e=8) She ain’t just on the cover, she’s in the mag! Nekkid! [Quagmire]Oh![/Quagmire] ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/79 "2004-05-07T19:29:05Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > As if people stay dead forever on this show. I don’t know what was in the spoiler box–I don’t care to read what was in the spoiler box, but this is _NOT_ cool. Keep your comments on spoilers inside another spoiler box. If you don’t know how to create a spolier box, hold off on posting that comment until you learn how. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667/80 "2004-05-07T19:48:00Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > I don’t know what was in the spoiler box–I don’t care to read what was in the spoiler box, but this is _NOT_ cool. Keep your comments on spoilers inside another spoiler box. If you don’t know how to create a spolier box, hold off on posting that comment until you learn how. Yeah, what he said! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-5-5/243667.md?page=5)