# Angel Finale... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093 "2004-05-20T02:00:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Riqay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Riqay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riqay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/21 "2004-05-20T02:42:43Z")
> [@EvilHamsterOnCrack](#): > > I miss it already. I didn’t like it… I mean, I liked the episode, but not as a series finale. I hope they make a movie. Anyways, my favorite line was: > > Angel (after hitting Harrison): Did that hurt? > Harrison (very calmly): Little bit. Wholeheartedly agree. That and Connor’s: You stop by for coffee and the world’s not ending? Please. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/22 "2004-05-20T02:56:19Z")
I did not like Wes dying. It felt wrong, like he didn’t have any hope of really defeating that guy and he was basically a sacrifice. It seemed too easy. I kept expecting to see Willow run in and save him though. I got on the Angel bandwagon late, I only started watching this season. So I don’t know a lot of the old backstories but I still felt like it wasn’t quite wrapped up. It does irk me so that WB would cancel Angel but approve a big stinking pile of dreck like the Superstar show is bound to be. Gah! Stupid WB! ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/23 "2004-05-20T02:57:41Z")
Want Osiris Urn! ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/24 "2004-05-20T03:16:53Z")
> [@Tiramisu](#): > > I did not like Wes dying. It felt wrong, like he didn’t have any hope of really defeating that guy and he was basically a sacrifice. It seemed too easy. > I kept expecting to see Willow run in and save him though. He was the only member of the FG with any serious mystical knowledge and experience. No one else had a better shot. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/25 "2004-05-20T03:42:48Z")
I loved it. I thought the ending was perfect. I laughed many times including: - “Did that even hurt?” “Little bit.” - Spike’s poem, dedicated to Cecily and including the word “effulgent.” - Illyria’s offscreen dismantling of the demons in the car. - The archduke’s slave getting tangled in Vail’s hose. I only cried once, at the Wes/not-Fred scene. It was a beautiful moment, seeing Illyria become a caring individual in the same instant Wesley died. I’ve decided that Wesley was the best, most interesting and complex character ever in the Buffyverse. Will any of you dare to argue the point with me? Again, the ending was perfect. Like James Marsters said in an interview, “Being a hero doesn’t mean you succeed in saving the day. It just means you tried.” The end was about going out trying. The only things I would have liked to see but didn’t were Harmony’s long-overdue staking and one last scene with Rondell and the gang. They should have been there helping take out the Senator. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/26 "2004-05-20T03:51:33Z")
I’m with **Menocchio** , this wasn’t a cliffhanger. They’re all dead. It’s exactly the same as the Butch and Sundance ending, or Thelma and Louise. It wasn’t about the fighting that killed them, it was the fight. They knew they were all going to die and they fought anyways because it was the right thing to do. Nice moments with William reading his poetry, Gunn helping out at the center, Lorne singing, and Wes staying with Illyria. And Angel being with Conner. All perfect for the last day. Lorne killing Lindsey was perfect. A huge twist, I never saw it coming, and it was perfect. Lindsey’s remark about being killed by a flunkie was right on, too, but that’s why it was perfect. Lindsey was played by Angel and the world didn’t revolve around him. He just wasn’t that important in the grand scheme of things, but it was a world shattering thing for Lorne. Eve stayed in the building I assume, 'nother dead character. I almost wished Gunn had sought out Spandexia, but she’d just get killed too. Survivors: Harmony, Lorne, and Conner. Dead: everyone else Think Joss was a little bitter when he wrote this episode? (Did he write this one?) It really showed, very different mood and feeling than the Buffy sendoff. Even with the bitterness, I liked it more than Buffy. It just seemed more “right” to end the series than the Buffy ending was. ---
**Author:** ![GythaOgg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@GythaOgg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GythaOgg)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/27 "2004-05-20T03:53:36Z")
‘Blakes 7’ did this ending better, over 20 years ago. I know on analysis that it’s really not -that- similar, but that was my immediate reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/28 "2004-05-20T04:22:44Z")
☹ I thought it was brilliant. I wept bitter tears when Wesley died - god, I love that man. Just a great scene… “Shall I lie to you now?” :: sob :: I adore Lindsey and as much as I hate the thought of no more Lindsey - damn, that was a perfect death for him. I wasn’t sure I liked the ending at first, but as it’s settling with me - I loved it. I loved every frame of this episode. > [@](#): > > _by Otto_ > First, to get this out of the way, a hearty “fuck you” to the WB for canceling this series, with a double helping of “fuck your mother” for throwing that “thanks from your friends at the WB” shit at the end. Second that! When I saw that I let out at least two or three loud "FUCK YOU!"s and I live completely alone. I believe I even gave my tv the finger. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/29 "2004-05-20T04:28:13Z")
Half way through the episode now. I started crying at “inspired by your beauty effulgent.” Probably won’t stop now. ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/30 "2004-05-20T04:33:15Z")
I am so mad that I missed it. I tape every episode while I am at work and I totally forgot to set the VCR… Damn Damn Damn. I don’t suppose that any Dallas area dopers taped it and could let me borrow it for an hour? Please? –==Mike==– ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/31 "2004-05-20T04:43:42Z")
If no one in the area responds and you don’t find the ep online, email me and I can send you my tape. It’s on a junky repeated-use tape so I can’t vouch for the quality 100% but it’s yours if you want it. ---
**Author:** ![Heloise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e36b37/32.png) [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/32 "2004-05-20T04:45:03Z")
I loved the line Angel gave to Hamilton, “Can you think of the one word that you shouldn’t have used in that sentence?” Or however it was he phrased it. Very nice. And I’m surprised that I didn’t realize the “Thank you” was from the WB. I thought it was from cast and crew at first, until the venom I read here. And I would have to agree. I wonder what Alexis is going to do now that both he and the wife lost their respective series. Or if he’ll keep the fake accent, since it seems to work so well for him. I missed a lot of the show, only watching it sporadically after they killed Doyle. He was my favorite, so when he went, so did a lot of my interest. I hope they come out with some movies. But if not, that was a good ending. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/33 "2004-05-20T04:52:11Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > I started crying at “inspired by your beauty effulgent.” That got me too. :: sigh :: ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/34 "2004-05-20T05:01:05Z")
I’m sobbing like some sobbign thing now. And drinking. Possibly I’ll be drinking heavily before the end of the night… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/35 "2004-05-20T05:19:11Z")
Teared up when Wes died… Laughed when Angel tore Hamilton apart… Cheered with the audience over Spike’s poetry… The wife and I just flipped off the TV and held each other until we stopped crying/shaking. Buffy brought us together, and now the Jossverse is over. The fight goes on. Now it is up to the rest of us… I’ll take the 30,000 on the left. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/36 "2004-05-20T05:34:39Z")
I know it’s goofy to be upset when a TV show goes off the air, but I feel really depressed right now. I thought the final episode was great, I just never wanted it to end. Luckily, the WB makes itself easy to boycott! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/37 "2004-05-20T05:34:55Z")
OK, I admit it, I was spoiled going in, so I’m not going to comment on the episode except to say… I think they can take 'em. That’s right. See, I was expecting this massive as in tens of thousands of demons coming from all sides, and from above (and not just the dragon). What do we get? A smallish dragon and a coupla hundred demons in armor, and only attacking from one side. How’s that principal in warfare go, one man can defend a narrow pass from an army? And there were four of them, defending an alley that’s just about the right size for four people to defend. OK, Gunn will probably pass out, but I think Illyria could count for two. [sub]Oh, and not that I expect anyone to care, but I have a fanfic about 80% written which explains in a couple of brief flashbacks how Angel and Co. get out of this one. It’s Illyria’s idea, actually. They kill off the leaders, and get the hell out of the way while the army turns on itself to fight it out over who gets to be in command.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/38 "2004-05-20T05:45:22Z")
My favorite line had to be Spike’s: “Okay. First off, I’m not wearing any amulet.” I agree that they’re all dead. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/39 "2004-05-20T05:46:14Z")
This was posted by joss at the bronze beta > [@](#): > > Joss: Can’t stay long. Wanted to say thank you one more time, to all of you except anyone who ever criticized anything ever at all. I came on these boards in Buffy’s first year and the support – and even the criticism – has been more helpful than I can type. I set out in television with one simple goal: to purchase a russian bride. Didn’t work out. Immigration stuff – it’s complicated. But I did get to make this show, and that other one, and that other other one, and meet some of the best artists and the best friends I’ve ever known. > > I had dinner with Tim Minear the other night, and we talked about what kind of show we want to make next. And it always comes back to the same themes… people getting strength. > People helping out. People being thankful for whatever they have, be it power, a decent life, or a fun-tastic russian bride. And I’m thankful that for the last eight years my cohorts and I got to feel like the superheroes. 'Cause of y’all. I don’t know if the Buffyverse is going to return to TV, but I hope so, and I know we’ll be putting SOMETHING out there. Maybe on HBO, ‘cause I like me some cussin’. > > Keep you posted. I’m sure I’ll stop crying eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093/40 "2004-05-20T05:58:36Z")
That was the best series finale I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen… um… Well, three. And one of them was Buffy’s. But it still blew both of them out of the water! Also, the idea of a Joss Whedon show on HBO is the best idea I’ve heard since Firefly on the big screen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-finale/246093.md?page=3)