# Angel - Peace Out **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 1, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267 "2003-05-01T01:30:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/21 "2003-05-01T13:52:49Z")
> [@](#): > > That I didn’t see coming AT ALL. You didn’t read the opening credits? I was wondering when she’d show up. ---
**Author:** ![MrMyth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@MrMyth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMyth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/22 "2003-05-01T14:04:21Z")
I’m new to _Angel_, so I don’t have the inbred Connor hate. From reading the threads here, though, I knew to be wary of his character. That being said, I liked him a lot in this ep. He had two of the three best moments for me - a) “Tell me and I’ll crush your windpipe.” “You mean **or** , don’t you? **Or** you’ll crush my windpipe?” b) The shot from inside the church when the two cops ahem…open the door for him. The last great moment for me was when Jasmine launched Angel. Not just the distance, but the _sound_. My ears were ringing from that hit. Excellent episode. And I felt for the kid, but the ‘Can-I-rest-speech-delivered-in-a-church’ has been done before, and better. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/23 "2003-05-01T14:36:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrMyth \* > \*\*I’m new to _Angel_, so I don’t have the inbred Connor hate. From reading the threads here, though, I knew to be wary of his character. That being said, I liked him a lot in this ep. He had two of the three best moments for me - I’ve seen every episode of Angel and I like Connor. I think a lot of people like him; it’s just that the people who dislike him are more vocal. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/24 "2003-05-01T16:07:35Z")
I missed about the first 10 minutes (late coming in from a 68 mile bicycle ride). I hear that Angel dispelled the bug monsters by showing them the orb, but did anything else much happen? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/25 "2003-05-01T17:22:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Apos if you want to hint about the finale can you use a spoiler box please? Thank you. I’m sorry: I didn’t mean to spoil your expectation that the show would remain exactly the same, and not take any new directions at all. In fact, I hear they’re just re-filming all the episodes from this season for next season to save on writers. Oops: didn’t mean to give it away! Also, I don’t mean to spoil it for you, but the finale will feature Angel and the Gang, and be about an hour long with commericials. ---
**Author:** ![sciguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@sciguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciguy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/26 "2003-05-01T19:39:10Z")
Loved the ending with Lilah! When she showed up, I just sat there going “Ohmigod ohmigod ohmigod!” as the credits rolled (a not uncommon reaction to Joss’s serieses). And based on the “next week on Angel:” It doesn’t look like Lilah is the First, since there’s the shot of her opening up the blinds to expose Angel to sunlight. So unless TFE gets corporeal in next week’s Buffy (or the timelines are out of sync), something else is going on, and that’s a good thing. Also, is there any information on how the Buffy/Angel timelines are supposed to sync up this season? I know there was some mention of the Buffy ep with Willow going to LA should’ve been a week earlier (or the Angel ep where she shows up a week later). If they’re “concurrent” at this point, then should we expect next week’s Angel finale to end with Angel leaving for Sunnydale to be in the Buffy finale? (above box contains possible Buffy spoilage, since I’m not sure how public the info is). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/27 "2003-05-01T20:00:17Z")
Loved the episode. And put me down as part of the (formerly) silent minority that’s always liked Connor. My only problem with the episode was Gunn breaking open the cage. The cage was installed for the express purpose of containing Angel, who is _much_ stronger and patient than Gunn. Still, minor quibble, since it didn’t effect the plot at all except to have them standing around so that when Angel showed up he could be surprised that they were still alive. My favorite part? When Jasmine throws Angel through a hefty stone lamp post that completely shatters… except for the glass top which hits the ground and bounces off camera. I don’t know why, but that made me laugh harder than anything else in the episode tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/28 "2003-05-01T20:50:46Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think I’m spoiling anything by saying that it will take the show in a new direction: both in terms of locale, aims, and even morality. Well, yeah, actually, you are spoiling something. By definition any information about episodes that haven’t aired is a spoiler. You were asked politely to use the spoiler box for similar information in future. The proper response is “sorry, I will,” not being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/29 "2003-05-01T20:51:15Z")
I loved it, very happy with how the season is going, can’t wait for next week! I was surprised to see Lilah, I thought the Beast had gotten rid of W&H to keep the coast clear for Jasmine, assuming their powers/connections could have gotten in her way. They keep surprising me, and not in a bad way. ---
**Author:** ![Spurious\_George](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Spurious\_George](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spurious_George)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/30 "2003-05-01T20:56:18Z")
**Trion** spake: > [@](#): > > …and I loved the shot of Gina Torres picking up an SUV Wasn’t it a Ford Taurus wagon? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/31 "2003-05-01T22:55:03Z")
So, you’re saying Torres picked up a Taurus? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/32 "2003-05-01T23:00:21Z")
**Miller** > [@](#): > > My only problem with the episode was Gunn breaking open the cage. The cage was installed for the express purpose of containing Angelus, who is _much_ stronger and patient than Gunn. Angelus loosened it up for him. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/33 "2003-05-01T23:01:56Z")
Apos, elf was very polite in his/her request, in case you didn’t notice. I agree that your last sentence should have been put in a spoiler box. Thought this was a great episode. Great to have Lilah back. I wonder if she and Wes will hit it off again… And will Fred be jealous? Personally, I think Fred has a badass side just itching to get out and kick some Lilah butt. Charisma just recently gave birth. I’m assuming that she won’t make an un-comatose appearance in the finale. And, finally, I’ve heard rumors that Angel will be back next fall and I’ve heard rumors that it’s still possibly on the chopping block. It would be a real shame if they canceled this show after the best season it’s had. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/34 "2003-05-01T23:12:11Z")
Just a WAG here, **PunditLisa** - If you were running Mutant Enemy, and had had such a season with Angel, would you then want to announce that there in fact _is_ a fifth season in the making, thereby saying that the Fang Gang will be back? I’m very cynical about the media business and I find it suspicious that it’s supposed to be announced after the finale. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/35 "2003-05-01T23:15:49Z")
Well, here’s the spoiler I heard for the **next** episode. And this is all I have heard: The Powers That Be reward the Fang Gang by giving them Wolfram & Heart. In what shape or form, and populated by whom, I don’t know. As for this episode, I guess I didn’t like the exposition as much as other folks, mainly because it was so clearly _exposition._. Like, with huge blinking arrows pointing to every sentence. Connor’s soliloquy and the Bug Priest’s gloating-over-assumed foregone-conclusion both seemed extremely obvious ways to full in gaps that the story was too rushed to tell properly. I was really surprised to see an ending to Jasmine this episode. She’s the creepiest Big Bad in many seasons, both on _Angel_ and _Buffy_, and she’ll sure be hard to top. Other than that, it was a greatly enjoyable episode. ---
**Author:** ![Lyllyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@Lyllyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lyllyan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/36 "2003-05-01T23:20:04Z")
Another great episode. Yet it does bring up alot of questions. Yes, Jasmine took away free will. But, she also stopped war, famine, hate etc…So, it leads to the question, did Angel do the right thing? As Lilah put it, he “ended world peace.” Gina Torres turned in a very good performance this episode. You could hear the frustration in her voice when she was arguing with Angel, and the desperation as “her people” were running from her in terror. Almost felt sorry for her. What does the appearance of Lilah bode for the FG? Does this mean they are going to be in league with evil? Is Lilah still evil? What does this mean for Connor, has he completely lost his mind now? How will all this affect Cordy, if she ever wakes up? Is her “essence” still on a higher plane? Oh, and loved the conversation with the Keeper. Might be just me, but I thought it was reminescent of the “Chalice with the palace” routine from _The Court Jester_. I am spoiled 😉 as to the finale, but would be interested in everyone’s thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/37 "2003-05-02T00:50:42Z")
I was very, very surprised the whole cast survived this episode. It’s not like ME to let them off with so little cost for facing such a big Bad. Which makes me wonder if we’ll lose Connor somehow next week. The way he was talking, I wouldn’t be surprised if he offs himself. _Angel_ has been so very much better than _Buffy_ this season. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/38 "2003-05-02T06:12:08Z")
Another great episode; I agree 100% with **The Gaspode** ’s run-down. If you were just to describe what happened in the ep, it would seem kind of flat and predictable – “oh, so it’s like every other episode of Angel, then?” But it’s the pacing and presentation that make it stand out. Of course Jasmine was going to be defeated, and of course Angel was going to win against the spider creatures. But that wasn’t the important part of the story, and even _how_ they did it wasn’t the important part. What’s important is what happens next. The scenes of Jasmine wandering the streets afterwards were very well done and very creepy. And I’m impressed that they didn’t make her all-evil; she really thought she was doing the right thing. And for what it’s worth, I’m on **Apos** ’s side. He/she didn’t “spoil” anything at all. IMO, people really need to lighten up about that. ---
**Author:** ![MattTheCroc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MattTheCroc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MattTheCroc)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/39 "2003-05-02T07:22:39Z")
I consider everything that isn’t already known from watching an episode, including previews and future titles, to be a spoiler. To say that Angel “changes locale” implies that something drastic will happen; something drastic of which previously I was unaware. I don’t know why ME thinks we’ll be surprised by characters when they’re listed in the opening credits. First it was Wesley way back in S1 and now it’s Lilah. Seeing as she only had two lines they could have easily put her in the final credits, like what happened in the first episode of Buffy this season with all the Big Bads. Good episode, otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267/40 "2003-05-02T07:32:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > \*\*\*\*Miller\*\*Angelus loosened it up for him. \*\* Works for me! I now consider this a Perfect Episode. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-peace-out/172267.md?page=3)