# Angel - Reign of Fire **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 18, 2002, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252 "2002-11-18T03:05:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/41 "2002-11-19T15:38:03Z")
I’m still troubled by the Bad’s statement to Angel, “Do you really think she’s safe with him?” I think that one can definitely go both ways, particularly when Cordy seemed a little predatory to me when offering Connor his moment of human connection. Cordy just hasn’t been her old self since returning from Higher Being-ness, and that worries me, especially since she can’t remember why or how she came back. I kept expecting her to go seriously evil when she was kissing Connor. And the fact that she just professed her love for Angel made that scene even stranger, as has already been addressed. I’m keeping my eye on Ms. Chase (and her distractingly swollen bosom) for the rest of the season. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/42 "2002-11-19T15:55:10Z")
[ahem] I believe, thoug I may be mistaken, that Big Bad Fiery Dude [BBFD!] said, “Do you really think you can protect her, Liam?” ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/43 "2002-11-19T16:06:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > Big Bad-It seemed odd that Cordy even bothered to deny that the BB was connected to Connor. It erupts from the very spot where he was “born”. Cordy might (subconsciously) know something. I think the BB is more connected to Cordy than Connor. Remember, in ‘Spin the Bottle,’ they made it pretty damn clear that Cordy getting her memory back is what awoke the BB. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/44 "2002-11-19T16:13:05Z")
Hey, **Gorgon** , I’ll take your word for it. I found it kind of hard to hear what he was saying, anyway. Must have been all that rubber on the face. But I think I got the general gist of it. And what you said kind of reinforces things in my head. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/45 "2002-11-19T16:41:10Z")
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! A THOUSAND TIMES NO! Add me to the long list of those who hated Cordy and Connor gettin’ horizontal. Pity screw or whatever, it was out of character and stupid. But I’m willing to cut a little slack, because the show is, generally, pretty damn good. But then Angel sees them. That REALLY upset me. I thought he was fighting and being beat up, but he got better and rather than going to the door to talk to his love and his son, he peeks in the window. STUPID STUPID STUPID. Dumb plot device. Add to it that Charisma is pregnant, which leads me to the even deeper , darker reason to hate this episode. If Cordy becomes pregnant with Connor’s kid, I’ll lose ton of respect and desire to watch the show. It’s so pathetic, it’s sad. If they’re going to screw with the show like this, why not just introduce a precocious 9 year old, blond, mop topped cousin to come in and spice the show up. Sure it’s been done before, but it’s a ton better than this crap. Grrrrrr. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/46 "2002-11-19T16:47:25Z")
No prob, **Judith**. That’s how _I_ heard it, and it makes more sense anyway, though I would like for someone to back us up in either case. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/47 "2002-11-19T17:50:15Z")
Re: What the BBFD said - Does anyone still have this ep on tape? If so, and if your TV supports closed captioning you could always turn on the CC and see what it says he said… ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/48 "2002-11-19T18:14:01Z")
> [@](#): > > turn on the CC and see what it says he said… Now _that’s_ an alliteration to be proud of! ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/49 "2002-11-19T18:54:12Z")
I heard “safe with him” and did not hear the name “Liam.” BTW, when did we find out Angel’s former name was Liam? I don’t recall ever seeing the moment, just people using it later. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/50 "2002-11-19T19:14:28Z")
I think it is the episode we see him turned by Darla that we find out his name. I believe his father calls him that. As for Cordy shagging Conner I don’t think that it is out of character. Notice her offer to him when she was affraid of Angel during the memory loss. I think Cordy thinks of sex as something that can get things done. There was always a little ambiguity with regards to how trampy she was when she was on Buffy. If people liked Conner more I think the scene would have worked better. Oh and **Gorgon Heap** I want to get into a game as a player just to make Wesley as a character. ---
**Author:** ![A\_wizard\_song\_for\_thee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/46a35a/32.png) [@A\_wizard\_song\_for\_thee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_wizard_song_for_thee)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/51 "2002-11-19T19:32:09Z")
Yeah, I just checked my tape, and it’s pretty definitely “Do you really think she is safe… with him?” Anyway, about the Big Bad and Connor’s connection, it’s pretty obvious that Connor’s not completely human. He’s been off single-handedly killing vampires without breaking a sweat (hell, he’s doing better than the Slayer did in the first season of Buffy) and that vampire a couple episodes ago even said “Nothing human could move that fast” or something… I think… Well, I don’t really know what to predict, save that Connor’s not-just-human-ness is going to come out in the fight with this Big Baddie… ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/52 "2002-11-20T13:33:22Z")
[sigh] Ok, so now we have what, four different ideas on what BBFD said? Sheesh. Are there some sort of script pages for Angel like there are for Buffy? I think we need help. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/53 "2002-11-20T14:07:43Z")
I definately heard “…with him”, but I didn’t turn on the CC. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/54 "2002-11-20T14:13:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gorgon Heap \* > \*\*[sigh] Ok, so now we have what, four different ideas on what BBFD said? Sheesh. Are there some sort of script pages for Angel like there are for Buffy? I think we need help. \*\* [http://www.buffy-vs-angel.com/guide\_ang.shtml](http://www.buffy-vs-angel.com/guide_ang.shtml) But Rain of Fire isn’t up yet. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/55 "2002-11-20T14:19:55Z")
So, everybody’s okay with Whedon arbitrarily aging Connor two years between this season and last (to be fair, he aged him 16 years between one episode and the next, so a lousy two years is nothing), or with Cordy being a rapist? ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/56 "2002-11-20T14:56:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gorgon Heap \* > \*\*No prob, **Judith**. That’s how _I_ heard it, and it makes more sense anyway, though I would like for someone to back us up in either case. \*\* I also thought it was “Do you really think she’s safe with him?” which is why Angel rushed over to Connor’s and was watching from the rooftop to see if they were both okay. And were they ever okay! (Urk! Yuck! Yuck!) I’ve always hated the Connor story line and was able to predict the entire last season with deadly accuracy. This season I’ve not been able to even hazard a guess, but I still hate all that is Connor related. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/57 "2002-11-20T14:59:02Z")
Honestly there is nothing about Connor that I am ok with. The sex scene in question was just creepy and completely off-putting. Yeck. :mad: The scene made no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/58 "2002-11-20T15:58:56Z")
“Do you really think she’s safe… wi… im” I just played it back and forth about ten times here on my handy and stylish computer. apuse between “safe” and “with” but the “th” and “w” are missing. Doomsday music doesn’t help either, but I’m positive. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/59 "2002-11-21T05:59:24Z")
Yeah, it was a lame ending. The C and C thing was bad, and the only thing that coulda made it worse was… Angel watching broodingly from a nearby rooftop. But I can live with that. I can just write it off as a plot twist, a corner they wrote themselves into, and give them a chance to do something interesting with it. I mean, this is the one show that managed to pull of the “Insta-Pregnancy” thing without being too hokey about it. What really got me, though was the final fight scene. They went ninja on his ass. And not “Wow, ninjas are cool” ninja, but “Hey, let’s each attack him individually. It’ll throw off his concentration.” No battle plan, no coordination, no sign that they’d ever fought together as a team before. Just “Hang on, fellas, when I get whupped you can have your turn!” Grr. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252/60 "2002-11-22T13:43:43Z")
I saw the slow motion start, and thought-- damn, that’s a sure sign that Angel & co are going to get their ass kicked. They always get their ass kicked in slomo. The bullets didn’t bounce off of creepy-eyed stone skinned dude. They just didn’t go in very far. I may be the only person who _liked_ Cordy and Connor. My take is: Cordy looked back at the whole lives of everyone she cared about-- not just Angel/Angelus. She saw that Angelus enjoyed causing pain-- while Connor/Steven was always being righteous-- even if he was misinformed about Daddy’s role in things. And he _was_ honest with her right from the get-go when she returned. And since when is an older woman having sex with a younger guy considered rape. Puh-leeze. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angel-reign-of-fire/137252.md?page=4)