# Angelina Jolie's next role... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 9, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080 "2006-08-09T23:28:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/41 "2006-08-10T22:30:15Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] I had heard her interview on NPR about a year ago. I don’t remember the interviewer ever having asked about her race (probably not), but I do remember knowing right away that I was listening to a black woman. [/quote] I thought all the members of Creedence Clearwater Revival were black until I was in my early 20’s. > [@](#): > > I would be distracted, but that’s not to say the movie wouldn’t be good. I just think it would be strange. I wouldn’t go see the movie if it was Denzel playing Armstrong any more then I would see Malcolm X being played by Dave Foley. It’d just be so ridiculous that I couldn’t take it seriously. Sure, I could watch a play that mixed things up a bit but that’s a different medium and they have a little more leeway to do that kind of thing in my opinion. Marc ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/42 "2006-08-10T22:48:59Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] I had heard her interview on NPR about a year ago. I don’t remember the interviewer ever having asked about her race (probably not), but I do remember knowing right away that I was listening to a black woman. [/QUOTE] How? Isn’t she French? In the picture in your OP she looks like she has mixed racial ancestory, but she looks more white than black to me. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/43 "2006-08-10T22:53:23Z")
> [@](#): > > But I do sympathize with the frustration that many non-white actors probably feel when a white star is selected for one of those rare parts that are suited for them. As do I. > [@](#): > > Except for an elite star like Halle Berry, who is lucky enough to have parts written specifically for her, I can’t see too many black actresses outcompeting white actresses for major roles. I agree, and I think this is due to the box office pressures I mentioned in my second post. > [@](#): > > I know if I were someone like Thandie Newton, I would wonder if this meant the competition was truly opening up so that black actors were no longer type-cast. Can Thandie (or someone comparable) now compete with Jolie on equal footing? Maybe if Thandie’s husband was the producer. 😉 But Thandie has nowhere near the box office draw of Angelina Jolie. That’s OK, lots of white actresses don’t have the box office draw of Angelina Jolie. It’s not because they’re white or black, it’s because she’s Angelina frickin’ Jolie. Thandie might more properly be compared to a strong working actress like [Olivia Williams](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0931404/) - beautiful, great actress, good resume, but not a box office name yet. > [@](#): > > Will we ever see black actors being giving roles that require them to play white people, or will the color-bending continue to be one-sided? If not, I think cries of “unfairness” are not unwarranted. Yeah, life is unfair and Hollywood is no exception, but that doesn’t mean it can’t sting like a bitch. I think we will. Someday. I don’t think that day will be today, or next week. I think there are far more good roles for black women today than in Butterfly McQueen’s day. I don’t think we should rest on those laurels - I think we should keep discussing it, and pushing, and plunking down our money to see interesting movies with interesting actors of varied skin tones. I think that the more we support even the mediocre (I don’t think Halle Berry is very good, frankly), the more we can give her the opportunity to give others the opportunity. Encourage black women to become producers and directors and writers - there’s where the power is. I think it will take a long time before white people are willing to see black movies at the same rate they do (white) movies. But I do have faith that it will happen sometime. These same questions were asked about women in general in the '80’s, and then women got into writing and producing, and today no one doubts that there are more good roles out there for women than there were 20 years ago. In the '90’s, the question was asked about black men - then we got Will Smith in blockbusters, Denzel, Spike Lee, Wesley Snipes, Djimon Hounsou, etc. etc. Black women will have their day, I have no doubt. Then we can ask the question of Indian women, perhaps, or Maori, or Inuit. > [@](#): > > But surely you would agree that it’s alright for someone to question whether or not a casting decision was the right one? Oh, absolutely asking the question is fine! Discussion is good. I love it! > [@](#): > > But you just made me think of something: Dreamgirls. The overt premise of the musical is the life of an all-black girl group from Detroit (like the Supremes) and their struggle to make it “big”. But interwoven in the subtext is the rise of a dark-skinned black girl–the lead of the group. There isn’t just a struggle against racism, but also colorism–the preference of light-skinned blacks over dark-skinned blacks. > > Beyonce Knowles will be playing the part of the lead in the movie version of this musical. There has been some displeasure about this casting choice, because it glosses over the story’s subtext (Knowles is light skinned). So…even when casting is race-specific, there can be some racial considerations that aren’t always obvious. This is a great example of what I meant by “If the role requires a person to be a dark-skinned black because of the plot, then you either cast a dark-skinned black, or you do something with effects to make the actor dark-skinned.” It does sound, from your description, as if the shade of the skin is important for the movie. If it isn’t, then I assume they would cast differently or do something with makeup, effects or even self-tanners. If they choose to leave her light-skinned, perhaps it’s because they are focusing on a different part of the story - one that has nothing to do with colorism. Themes change in different interpretations all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/44 "2006-08-10T23:03:39Z")
She’s pretty light skinned. Her nose isn’t at all broad. Does she even have Black hair? Honestly, I don’t see much of a problem with it. I do think that a “darker complected” non-Black or very light skinned Black actor probably would have looked more like her though. She has Black in her but with Cuban and Dutch probably has a good deal of “Caucasion” too, maybe more? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/45 "2006-08-10T23:12:13Z")
I know I’m beating hard on an already right-clobbered horse here, but she might have some Native American in there too, as some of Cubans heritage do. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/46 "2006-08-11T00:05:31Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] This is a great example of what I meant by “If the role requires a person to be a dark-skinned black because of the plot, then you either cast a dark-skinned black, or you do something with effects to make the actor dark-skinned.” It does sound, from your description, as if the shade of the skin is important for the movie. If it isn’t, then I assume they would cast differently or do something with makeup, effects or even self-tanners. If they choose to leave her light-skinned, perhaps it’s because they are focusing on a different part of the story - one that has nothing to do with colorism. Themes change in different interpretations all the time. [/QUOTE] Themes do change, and it’s obvious that the original subtext of _Dreamgirls_ is not being factored into the movie, probably to make it more appealing to the masses. But again, I sympathize with those who wish this wasn’t the case. But your posts has made me think of something else: What if the creators of the movie decided they wanted to keep the original subtext and still cast Beyonce Knowles, using CGI to make her skin look dark. To me, this is a blatant slap in the face of the story’s message: that a dark-skinned girl _can_ be a star. Obviously she can’t be if a light-skinned girl still manages to get the leading role, special effects or not. When a casting choice is that ironic, I think it’s distracting and therefore inappropriate. > [@monstro](#): > > I thought he did okay. But for some reason, I found the younger Coleman Silk more believable than the older one…and this was **after** I had learned of the younger actor’s background. I meant to say “before”, not “after” (referring to Wentworth Miller, who has black ancestry). ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/47 "2006-08-11T00:16:24Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] I I do agree that there is a difference between a historical figure and a contemporary person. However, I do think appearances matter to a degree, even with historical figures. Blond-haired, blue-eyed Charlton Heston was able to play an olive-skinned Semite because, at the time _The Ten Commandments_ was produced, few people were aware that he didn’t look like a stereotypical Hebrew. Even if they had, the political climate was different. No one would have cared. [/QUOTE] On a recent trip to Disneyworld, I saw the \*Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular Show \* at MGM studios. One scene was a re-enactment of the bareknuckle fight with the Nazi guard around the airplane. As the scene opened up, the stuntmen came onstage dressed as Nazis and went to their respective positions waiting for Jones’ entry. One stuntman prominently rode across center stage on a Nazi motorcycle, parked and strode confidently to his gun emplacement. I pointed to him and said to my girlfriend “Look, honey, a black Nazi! You don’t see that every day!” He was indeed black. Very dark skinned. We had a brief chuckle over the incongruity and then promptly forgot about it as the stunts began. The wierd part was, the dude looked \*good \* in that uniform. He knew it, too, with that strut of his. > [@](#): > > But I don’t think a blond-haired, blue-eyed Moses would be widely accepted today. Even if they hired the best actor on the block, I think there would be a certain outcry, or at least concern about the lack of historical detail. Didn’t Mel Gibson do a movie recently about a well known historical figure, where all the actors were, um, significantly paler than you would expect people from that region in that time period to be? Then again, I didn’t watch it, so what the hell do I know… ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/48 "2006-08-11T01:19:34Z")
My thoughts exactly. I call it the “Ted Nugent” Jesus- the caucasian features, the long, mostly straight light brown hair (but with a few lovely curves and curls). Not too Jewish… My grandma had the classic Ted Nugent Jesus picture in her house for as long as I can remember- it’s the one most Protestant churches display, I think. Okay, it’s [this](http://picturesofjesus4you.com/gallery1portraits.html) one, painted by Warner Sallman. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/49 "2006-08-11T01:21:21Z")
Shit, link didn’t work right… it’s the upward-gazing side view, second down on the left. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/50 "2006-08-11T01:47:58Z")
[QUOTE=Leviosaurus] Didn’t Mel Gibson do a movie recently about a well known historical figure, where all the actors were, um, significantly paler than you would expect people from that region in that time period to be?[/SIZE] [/QUOTE] No, I think that was just the main character. Wouldn’t want to confuse him with those war starters. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/51 "2006-08-11T03:03:17Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] I’m black, but I look quite similar to Mariane Pearl. Historically, she would have been cast into slavery just as readily as a dark-skinned black person. She would have been relegated to the back of the bus in Selma, Alabama, and it would have been illegal for her to marry her husband. She has light skin, but she cannot pass as white phenotypically. As has been said too many times to count on this board, “blackness” in the US is defined as having any recent “black” ancestry…only recently have people bothered to question this rule (and usually only when it comes to certain people accepting academy awards). Perhaps in a country like South Africa or Brazil, Pearl would be classified as “colored” or “mulatto”. But in the States, she is a black woman. If she were being described on America’s Most Wanted, you better believe she wouldn’t be called anything other than a “light-skinned black woman”. And that’s not going to change any time soon. It is possible to have 50% European ancestry (or even more) and still have two black parents, simply due to the crazy way race is defined here. I’m going to hold my temper, because this isn’t the Pit and it’s a lovely day. But what the hell? Where do I express outrage in the OP, **astorian**? Didn’t I say MULTIPLE TIMES that I have no problem with Jolie playing this role? Stop reading emotions in the OP that are not there. You only look like a knee-jerking idiot when you do that. I’d like you to tell me what my premise is, since you’ve obviously judged it so harshly. Because I don’t think I have a premise. I’m just asking some light-hearted questions about a trivial topic. If you can’t join in in a constructive way, please butt out. [/QUOTE] My my my, you’re SO calm, cool, collected and rational… how could I EVER have thought for a second that you were an oversensitive nut job? Your polite, sane, thoughtful response sure put me in my place. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/52 "2006-08-11T06:12:08Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] My my my, you’re SO calm, cool, collected and rational… how could I EVER have thought for a second that you were an oversensitive nut job? [/QUOTE] No insults in MPSIMS, **astorian**. You’ve been here long enough; you know to confine it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/53 "2006-08-11T13:00:25Z")
[QUOTE=SkipMagic] No insults in MPSIMS, **astorian**. You’ve been here long enough; you know to confine it to the Pit. [/QUOTE] True enough. I should have known better, and I apologize. I trust you’ll now get around to Monstro’s tossing around of the word “idiot”? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/54 "2006-08-11T13:30:59Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] My my my, you’re SO calm, cool, collected and rational… how could I EVER have thought for a second that you were an oversensitive nut job? Your polite, sane, thoughtful response sure put me in my place. [/QUOTE] [Come hither.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=383479&page=1&pp=50) ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/55 "2006-08-11T23:56:04Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] Why do you think that? I really don’t care much either way, but there seems to be this strong resistence to the notion that Angeline Jolie could be as Indian as, say, I am Irish. I don’t find it that hard to swallow, and it might have had something to do with the casting for all I know. What’s the big deal? [/QUOTE] I meant it would be a very big IF that Wikipedia was correct. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/56 "2006-08-12T13:18:09Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] Heh, shoulda actually looked up the dates of movies before I posted. In my head, Girl, Interupted was 10 years ago. But seems like since then (when she won her Oscar and became a “Big Name”) she hasn’t been in any decent movies. Granted Mrs Smith and Tomb Raider made the big $$, but I wouldn’t call them good in any other sense (YMMV of course). [/QUOTE] To add to **Dangerosa** ’s list, right off the top of my head I’d suggest the recent _Napoleon Dynamite_. I think a lot of indies like this make it big. I call it the _Blair Witch_ syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080/57 "2006-08-12T15:09:09Z")
[QUOTE=lisacurl] I meant it would be a very big IF that Wikipedia was correct. [/QUOTE] Why? I mean, I know the rap on Wiki, and I don’t quote it as a cite myself, but I have seen several references to Jolie’s mother being 1/2 native american since her daughter became famous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angelina-jolies-next-role/368080.md?page=2)