# angels on heads of pins **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 27, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angels-on-heads-of-pins/318912 "2005-08-27T22:30:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![danachas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/74df32/32.png) [@danachas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danachas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angels-on-heads-of-pins/318912/1 "2005-08-27T22:30:14Z")
Yes, the quote is really ‘tips of needles’, yet , has anyone really wasted time on answering the question? I can imagine thieses on this. Since angels do not exist what could the answer be? (I’m also sure that if a tree falls in the wood and no one is there to hear it, that it makes a sound. Just because no HUMAN is there to hear it doesn’t moot the question…yet if a mere male speaks alone in the wood and no woman is there to hear him…is he, of course, still wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angels-on-heads-of-pins/318912/2 "2005-08-27T22:35:36Z")
> [@danachas](#): > > Yes, the quote is really ‘tips of needles’, yet , has anyone really wasted time on answering the question? I can imagine thieses on this. Since angels do not exist > what could the answer be? (I’m also sure that if a tree falls in the wood and no one is there to hear it, that it makes a sound. Just because no HUMAN is there to hear it doesn’t moot the question…yet if a mere male speaks alone in the wood and no woman is there to hear him…is he, of course, still wrong? What quote? If you post a link maybe I’ll know what the hell you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angels-on-heads-of-pins/318912/3 "2005-08-28T01:17:31Z")
> [@Jake](#): > > What quote? If you post a link maybe I’ll know what the hell you’re talking about. I fancy the reference is to “[Did medieval scholars argue over how many angels could dance on the head of a pin?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_132.html)” However, inasmuch as “danachas”[list=a] [li]seems not actually to have read it, and[/li][li]seems to have made up his mind (albeit without evidence),[/li][/list] there seems to be little point in following up. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angels-on-heads-of-pins/318912/4 "2005-08-28T18:53:10Z")
> [@danachas](#): > > Yes, the quote is really ‘tips of needles’, yet , has anyone really wasted time on answering the question? I can imagine thieses on this. Since angels do not exist Whether or not _you_ think angels exist, medieval scholars did believe in them. Further, they also had a ready command of the grammar, usage, and orthography of the languages in which they wrote, and most of them could properly frame their rhetorical arguments. Frankly, I’ll take them over you any day. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angels-on-heads-of-pins/318912/5 "2005-08-28T21:49:18Z")
> [@](#): > > The reader desirous of being merry with Aquinas’s angels may find them in Martinus Scriblerus, in Ch. VII who inquires if angels pass from one extreme to another without going through the middle? Cool. They though the earth was flat but they knew about quantum mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angels-on-heads-of-pins/318912/6 "2005-08-28T23:27:20Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Cool. They though the earth was flat No they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angels-on-heads-of-pins/318912/7 "2005-08-30T14:16:31Z")
They didn’t merely “think” angels existed, they **knew** angels existed. Their proof: the bible said so. They categorized angels into orders etc based on biblical quotations and wild imaginations. See [Straight Dope Staff Report: What’s the deal with angels?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mangels.html) ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angels-on-heads-of-pins/318912/8 "2005-08-31T17:43:20Z")
My question has to do with Cecil’s comment: > [@](#): > > According to unimpeachable sources, it’s not how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, it’s how many can do it on the point of a needle–_ **which, of course, makes more sense.** _ emphasis mine It wouldn’t be the first time that subtle wit wooshed me, but why is the point of a needle more sensible than the head of a pin? Were pins not yet invented? Is the head of a pin too spacious relative to a needle? Also, while the argument seems unnecessarily superfluous, wasn’t Thomas and his like the light at the end of the tunnel of the dark ages? (So to speak.) ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angels-on-heads-of-pins/318912/9 "2005-09-01T11:08:19Z")
I think that was Cecil exhibiting his sense of humor, which sometimes is elusive for us mere mortals down below. Or, perhaps, needles make more sense because of that whole bit on how it’s easier for [the eye of a camel](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrichman.html) to [pass through a needle](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrichma2.html) …