# Anger and surprise isn't the same thing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 19, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762 "2013-12-19T20:55:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/1 "2013-12-19T20:55:36Z")
So, a guy from Duck Dynasty said some bigoted things, and A&E suspended him from the show, and it is big news for some reason. In the grand scheme of things, one entertainer being somewhat of a bigot probably isn’t all that important, especially since the television station already responded, but the news brought about my least favorite shitty argument. Why are you surprised that a redneck would be bigoted against gay people? Who said anything about surprise? Pointing out that a bigoted statement is bigoted is something that should be done even if the speaker is a known bigot. Being angry at someone for saying something bigoted is fine, even if one expects the speaker to say bigoted things. Does being expected to do shitty things somehow excuse doing shitty things? It is also kind of terrible to assume someone’s a bigot just because they are poor, white and Southern. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/2 "2013-12-19T21:20:34Z")
Before today I knew nothing about this guy or his stupid show. I really wish I could go back in time. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/3 "2013-12-19T21:29:43Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > So, a guy from Duck Dynasty said some bigoted things, and A&E suspended him from the show, and it is big news for some reason. In the grand scheme of things, one entertainer being somewhat of a bigot probably isn’t all that important, especially since the television station already responded, but the news brought about my least favorite shitty argument. > > Why are you surprised that a redneck would be bigoted against gay people? > > Who said anything about surprise? Pointing out that a bigoted statement is bigoted is something that should be done even if the speaker is a known bigot. Being angry at someone for saying something bigoted is fine, even if one expects the speaker to say bigoted things. Does being expected to do shitty things somehow excuse doing shitty things? Bastards. All of 'em. Whoever they are and whatever they did. I’m in full support of every word in this aimlessly directed missive. > [@Taber](#): > > It is also kind of terrible to assume someone’s a bigot just because they are poor, white and Southern. It does, however, save a lot of time. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/4 "2013-12-19T21:45:24Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > It is also kind of terrible to assume someone’s a bigot just because they are poor, white and Southern. Well, they ain’t po’ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/5 "2013-12-19T21:48:52Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > Does being expected to do shitty things somehow excuse doing shitty things? It shouldn’t lower my opinion of them. I’m not a Duck Dynasty viewer, but isn’t the guy a religious, older, conservative southerner? I fully expect that he’s not going to embrace the gay lifestyle. So, any statements he makes that support the idea that he just doesn’t accept the gay lifestyle isn’t going to change my opinion of him. If he came out in support of SSM, I’d be surprised, and I would change my opinion of him. This is like stock prices after an announcement. If the announcement matched “analyst expectations”, not much happens, even if the announcement is awesome or horrible. If the announcement does not match expectations, a lot can happen good or bad, regardless of whether or not the announcement is good or bad for the company. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/6 "2013-12-19T22:04:35Z")
That’s fair, though I think there probably should be a difference in the way people treat people who say bigoted things vs people who are demographically likely to hold bigoted views. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/7 "2013-12-19T23:33:06Z")
[Racist remarks, too.](http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/-duck-dynasty--star-phil-robertson-digs-his-hole-a-little-deeper-by-also-stinging-african-americans-173821415.html) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/8 "2013-12-20T00:40:58Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It shouldn’t lower my opinion of them. > > I’m not a Duck Dynasty viewer, but isn’t the guy a religious, older, conservative southerner? I fully expect that he’s not going to embrace the gay lifestyle. So, any statements he makes that support the idea that he just doesn’t accept the gay lifestyle isn’t going to change my opinion of him. > > If he came out in support of SSM, I’d be surprised, and I would change my opinion of him. I try to assume the best of people rather than assuming the worst, though I’ll admit after having seen approximately 3 minutes of the show once, I was not surprised. Still, it lowered my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/9 "2013-12-20T01:06:54Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > So, a guy from Duck Dynasty Was it the guy with the beard, or the other guy with the beard, or maybe that little guy who’s always in the back, stroking his beard. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/10 "2013-12-20T07:35:58Z")
Giving a redneck a pass on being a racist homophobe is just another form of the soft bigotry of low expectations. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/11 "2013-12-20T08:24:35Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Was it the guy with the beard, or the other guy with the beard, or maybe that little guy who’s always in the back, stroking his beard. No, man, that was that Bugs Bunny cartoon with the hillbillies pulling each other’s beards. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/12 "2013-12-20T08:55:37Z")
But that’s why I’m not angry or surprised at the PC police getting out their torches and pitchforks over the most ridiculous things. That’s kinda their job. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/13 "2013-12-20T10:52:19Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > but the news brought about my least favorite shitty argument. > > Why are you surprised that a redneck would be bigoted against gay people? I don’t understand the OP. How is saying “we’re surprised” an argument? An argument against what? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/14 "2013-12-20T15:21:23Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I don’t understand the OP. How is saying “we’re surprised” an argument? An argument against what? I don’t think that “we’re surprised” is an argument. The argument is that some people are making too big a deal out of things, because it shouldn’t be surprising that an old Southern white guy would be racist and homophobic. I agree with the OP. It’s true that the guy’s statements are not the most surprising things, but people can still be upset by them and object to them. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/15 "2013-12-20T15:37:39Z")
While we’re here, I’d just like to direct a hearty “fuck you” to Magellan, for [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16946455#post16946455). Like, I knew you were an insane right-wing douchebag, but this is really impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/16 "2013-12-20T17:05:58Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > Who said anything about surprise? Pointing out that a bigoted statement is bigoted is something that should be done even if the speaker is a known bigot. Being angry at someone for saying something bigoted is fine, even if one expects the speaker to say bigoted things. Does being expected to do shitty things somehow excuse doing shitty things? Of course not, but if its the same thing that they have been doing over and over again for years, its hard to get up the emotional charge that it is in a novel injustice. As an example: The damage done by the statements and beliefs of these bozo’s pales in comparison to the damage done by Kim Jong-un throwing someones family into a work camp. But if we got upset, and started a pit thread every single time he did that we would quickly wear ourselves out to no useful end. So without condoning Kim Jong-un’s behavior, we accept it as the current status quo, and while we might keep as much pressure as we can to fight for change we generally get on with our lives. Similarly if we got upset each time a bigot in the US said something bigoted and stupid, we are going to wear ourselves out to no useful end, even if we realize its a general problem that needs to be addressed. Or to put it another way, we tend to change our actions based on new information. Old information has largely been taken into account, and so is unlikely to inspire a urgent movement. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/17 "2013-12-20T17:12:05Z")
> [@For You](#): > > No, man, that was that Bugs Bunny cartoon with the hillbillies pulling each other’s beards. Now into the brook and fish for a trout Dive right in and splash about. Trout, trout, pretty little trout, One more splash and come right ooooouuuuuuuut! (I love that one!) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/18 "2013-12-20T19:04:06Z")
That toon gets butchered in syndication, though. I guess they all do, to some extent. ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/19 "2013-12-20T19:23:00Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Giving a redneck a pass on being a racist homophobe is just another form of the soft bigotry of low expectations. Brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762/20 "2013-12-20T20:55:57Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Of course not, but if its the same thing that they have been doing over and over again for years, its hard to get up the emotional charge that it is in a novel injustice. As an example: The damage done by the statements and beliefs of these bozo’s pales in comparison to the damage done by Kim Jong-un throwing someones family into a work camp. But if we got upset, and started a pit thread every single time he did that we would quickly wear ourselves out to no useful end. So without condoning Kim Jong-un’s behavior, we accept it as the current status quo, and while we might keep as much pressure as we can to fight for change we generally get on with our lives. > > Similarly if we got upset each time a bigot in the US said something bigoted and stupid, we are going to wear ourselves out to no useful end, even if we realize its a general problem that needs to be addressed. > > Or to put it another way, we tend to change our actions based on new information. Old information has largely been taken into account, and so is unlikely to inspire a urgent movement. It’s old information that old white Southern men can be racist and homophobic. But it was new information to me and I think a lot of people that this specific old white Southern man is racist and homophobic. That’s why there’s the uproar. I’ve watched only a few episodes of Duck Dynasty, but from what I’ve seen and heard, it’s mostly apolitical. There’s always a prayer at the end, and maybe some other references to Jesus, but nothing about who’s going to be sent to hell or how things weren’t so bad for black people. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anger-and-surprise-isnt-the-same-thing/676762.md?page=2)