# Angry Muslim crowd torches embassies **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023 "2006-02-04T20:35:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/41 "2006-02-05T02:43:18Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I wasn’t comparing anything, other than man’s inhumanity, etc. It was meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but apparently Christianity is in the no-fun zone. The merest suggestion that perhaps those who follow Jesus aren’t as holy as they would like others to believe sends people like that into frothing fits, which of course just makes my point. I wasn’t looking for any hidden meaning, I just thought his post was funny. I don’t have a history with \*\*Metacom \*\*and religous discusssion, so maybe I’m missing something. Is he known for being hyper-sensitive about criticism aimed at Christians? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/42 "2006-02-05T02:57:22Z")
I’m kinda with **lissener** on this one. Part of me wants the Danes and Norwegians to close their embassies and sever all diplomatic ties with Syria until the parties responsible are caught and punished to their satisfaction. If the radical Muslims want to remain in the Dark Ages, let them. Sever all ties and trade, and let them rot. I realise that this is an over-reaction, and slanders the great majority of Muslims that are peaceful and rational. But this is a violation of national sovereignty, and needs to be dealt with severely. We really need to eliminate all religious extremists, Phelps and company included. But what can you do in an inclusive, democratic society? Only one thing, and the moderate Muslims need to take note of it, as more and more of them are: The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/43 "2006-02-05T02:58:20Z")
I’m not sure of a much greater pattern, but I didn’t even recognize his user name before the last time he went totally mental. [Evidently, unless you presuppose that God is a more valid myth than pixies, you’re an asshole.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6846075&postcount=116) And, of course, it’s okay to call the myths of previous societies fairy tales, but if you do it with modern beliefs with no proof, why, it’s time for someone to go berserk. When faced with someone saying that it was a discussion of someone’s _beliefs_ and not their personality or self-worth, [Metacom continued his freakout.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6849946&postcount=190) Then, [when further challenged](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6853338&postcount=195) on why one should place more faith in God than in Thor, he just ran away from the thread. If that behavior is in any way indicitave of normal behavior, and I’ve seen no apology or retraction which would lead me to think otherwise, then I don’t think that Metacom is exactly the most rational person to discuss religion with. Especially since he seems physically unable to understand that challenging someone’s ideas is not the same as attacking them as a person. Religious folks with a chip on their shoulders aren’t always the best people to talk about religion with. And, in a thread about a reaction of violence and a massive freakout in the Muslim world over criticism of their religion, Metacom posts. The Irony Gods took note, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/44 "2006-02-05T03:45:09Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > You know, I’m a screaming leftist liberal who struggles to remain rational about this kind of thing. I try not to let my emotional response get the better of me, and to examine and discuss these things in the cold light of reason and tolerance. > > But then, sometimes I just think, It’s time for the big smackdown. Nothing else is gonna work. These guys’ culture needs a reboot. > > Now, I’ll regret having said that, and I’ll want to take it back, in the cold light of reason and tolerance. But damn. What can possibly cut through this situation? Word. It goes against principle to feel this way, but damn, where were the torch-bearing mobs of Christian fanatics screaming “Death to Andres Serrano” when “Piss Christ” was making headlines? Outrage? Sure. Thousands rioting and burning? No. ---
**Author:** ![glilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/48db29/32.png) [@glilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glilly)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/45 "2006-02-05T04:32:42Z")
Have I missed something? CNN et al are reporting that the **Norwegian** embassy got torched. As far as I’d read, Norway had nothing to do with it. **Are they torching embassies of countries _close_ to other countries in which independent newspapers printed cartoons?** Jesus _Christ_ is that fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/46 "2006-02-05T05:17:01Z")
Personally, I am still royally pissed at the Visigoths. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/47 "2006-02-05T05:18:37Z")
IIRC a Norwegian paper reprinted them.[Yep](http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/02/01/france.cartoon.ap/). Not that it makes the current round of infantile violence any less abhorent. It really does strike me as a war, as a campaign of terrorism; they’re attempting to get us to change our very culture or risk violence. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/48 "2006-02-05T05:32:01Z")
ahem **Marley23** > [@](#): > > _These cartoons were printed in the Netherlands almost six months ago - & - (I don’t know what any of the Dutch text says)_ The cartoons were printed in _Denmark_ and had _Danish_ texts. [and Amsterdam isn’t the capitol of Denmark either] 🙂 The _Netherlands_ had the honor to be the first European country being subjected by muslim censorship. When filmmaker Theo van Gogh was beheaded by a muslim for critisizing Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/49 "2006-02-05T05:42:38Z")
My mistake. And I’ve been to both countries. It’s probably your fault for bringing up Theo van Gogh out of nowhere in that GD thread. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/50 "2006-02-05T06:09:36Z")
Eh?!?! [http://www.cagle.com/news/BLOG/main.asp](http://www.cagle.com/news/BLOG/main.asp) > [@](#): > > THE UNITED STATES BACKS THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES IN THE MUHAMMAD CARTOONS DISPUTE > > The USA has finally taken a position on the Muhammad cartoon controversy, on the side of the offended Muslim countries. Reuters quotes State Department spokesman Kurtis Cooper: > > “These cartoons are indeed offensive to the belief of Muslims. We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable.” > > Reuters went on to note: > > American Muslims welcomed the U.S. position, although it stopped short of urging American media not to republish the cartoons that include depicting Mohammad as a terrorist. Cooper said he had no comment as to why the United States chose to pass judgment in a dispute that ostensibly does not involve America … The U.S. response contrasted with European governments, which have tended to acknowledge the tension between free speech and respect for religion but have generally accepted the newspapers’ rights to print the cartoons. > > Reuters reports that Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American Islamic Relations, welcomed the U.S. position, Hooper is quoted as saying, > > “(The State Department reaction) was a strong statement in support of Muslims around the world. It’s a reflection of the concern felt by millions of Muslims and I think it will be appreciated.” Can someone clarify why suddenly the Idiot president is saying he is in favor of censorship? (Is this another of his “there ought to be limits to freedom moment”?) Why is the administration beginning to support the positions of extremists? And you can see how bad is this when a neo-conservative like Christopher Hitchens also pounces on the president: > **[The Case for Mocking Religion](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2006/02/the-case-for-mocking-religion.html)** > > As well as being a small masterpiece of inarticulacy and self-abnegation, the statement from the State Department about this week's international... > [@](#): > > As well as being a small masterpiece of inarticulacy and self-abnegation, the statement from the State Department about this week’s international Muslim pogrom against the free press was also accidentally accurate. > > “Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images, as anti-Christian images, or any other religious belief.” > > Thus the hapless Sean McCormack, reading painfully slowly from what was reported as a prepared government statement. How appalling for the country of the First Amendment to be represented by such an administration. What does he mean “unacceptable?” That it should be forbidden? And how abysmal that a “spokesman” cannot distinguish between criticism of a belief system and slander against a people. However, the illiterate McCormack is right in unintentionally comparing racist libels to religious faith. Many people have pointed out that the Arab and Muslim press is replete with anti-Jewish caricature, often of the most lurid and hateful kind. In one way the comparison is hopelessly inexact. These foul items mostly appear in countries where the state decides what is published or broadcast. > > … > > Therefore there is a strong case for saying that the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten, and those who have reprinted its efforts out of solidarity, are affirming the right to criticize not merely Islam but religion in general. And the Bush administration has no business at all expressing an opinion on that. If it is to say anything, it is constitutionally obliged to uphold the right and no more. You can be sure that the relevant European newspapers have also printed their share of cartoons making fun of nuns and popes and messianic Israeli settlers, and taunting child-raping priests. There was a time when this would not have been possible. But those taboos have been broken. > > … > > There can be no negotiation under duress or under the threat of blackmail and assassination. And civil society means that free expression trumps the emotions of anyone to whom free expression might be inconvenient. It is depressing to have to restate these obvious precepts, and it is positively outrageous that the administration should have discarded them at the very first sign of a fight. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/51 "2006-02-05T06:17:30Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Word. It goes against principle to feel this way, but damn, where were the torch-bearing mobs of Christian fanatics screaming “Death to Andres Serrano” when “Piss Christ” was making headlines? Outrage? Sure. Thousands rioting and burning? No. No rioting and burning, but “Death to Andres Serrano” threats? [Hell yeah](http://www.communityarts.net/readingroom/archivefiles/2002/09/shooting_the_kl.php). Terrence McNally received some of the same charming Christian love ‘n’ peace too, when his _Corpus Christi_ – a play depicting a gay Christ – was to be presented by the Manhattan Theatre Club a few years back. When announcing that the play would be postponed, staffers gave [this explanation](http://www.talkinbroadway.com/rialto/past/1998/9_3_98.html): > [@](#): > > “…After information about the play appeared prematurely in the press, we received numerous death threats to Mr. McNally, and finally, a threat to exterminate the author, the staff, and our audiences, and ‘burn the building to the ground’…” The play eventually went on, but not before the threats worked their magic and temporarily closed the theater. Y’know, I’m not defending these acts of violence at ALL. Behavior like this, especially over a drawing on a piece of paper, is absurd and contemptible. Unfortunately, everyone is on a hairtrigger these days. This isn’t occuring in a vacuum: at a time when thousands of civilian Iraqi Muslims are being killed and maimed in a war most Arabs feel is unjustified, it’s probably easy for some who share their faith to feel under attack. In such a climate, outrage escalates all too quickly into violence. Oh yeah, and **askeptic** ’s implication that **jjimm** ’s Muslim friends must answer for genital mutilations and women-stoning are fucking toolish as all get-out. Just curious, are you straight man? I demand that you prove you’re against gay-bashing, rape, and pedophilia. If you’re white, you’d better add your stance on the Aryan Alternative newspaper and St_rmfr_nt. Christian? How do you feel about killing abortion providers, or Fred Phelps protesting Coretta Scott King’s funeral, or burning crosses on Jewish people’s lawns? If you’re Hispanic, how do you feel about the Latin Kings and other gangs? And naturally, if you’re black, you’re gonna have to give your alibi now regarding where you were during the riots in NOLA. Dumb shit like that is ignorant as hell. Cut it the fuck out. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/52 "2006-02-05T07:13:50Z")
> [@choie](#): > > No rioting and burning, but “Death to Andres Serrano” threats? [Hell yeah](http://www.communityarts.net/readingroom/archivefiles/2002/09/shooting_the_kl.php). > > Terrence McNally received some of the same charming Christian love ‘n’ peace too, when his _Corpus Christi_ – a play depicting a gay Christ – was to be presented by the Manhattan Theatre Club a few years back. When announcing that the play would be postponed, staffers gave [this explanation](http://www.talkinbroadway.com/rialto/past/1998/9_3_98.html): > > The play eventually went on, but not before the threats worked their magic and temporarily closed the theater. Sure, there were death threats, I’d have been amazed if there weren’t since Christians aren’t lacking their own wacko nutjobs. But did Serrano have to spend years in hiding, a la Rushdie? Nope. Did thousands-strong mobs surround his studio and burn it down? Nope. The play you cite did go on eventually. For that matter, Monty Python’s _Life of Brian_ surely pissed off a lot of people too, but were movie theaters showing it torched? Look, it’s no secret that Christianity went through its own dark ages where a smidgen of heresy could get you beaten, imprisoned, or burned at the stake; where brutal crusades were government policy. But Christians _as a whole_ have pretty much evolved beyond that level. Even among fundamentalists you have to go well out into the fringe to find real violence. When a fundaloonie like Pat Robertson spews his shit he gets repudiated and forced to backpedal. That’s not what we’re seeing from the Islamic world currently. Are all Muslims aggressive fanatics? Hell, no. Most of them? I don’t believe so. But are the aggressive fanatics in control? Based on the (admittedly Western-media-filtered) evidence before me, I’m forced to at the very least wonder. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/53 "2006-02-05T07:23:12Z")
Don’t get sucked in. it’s all just a publicity stunt for [this](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433116/combined). Trust Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/54 "2006-02-05T07:27:15Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Are all Muslims aggressive fanatics? Hell, no. Most of them? I don’t believe so. But are the aggressive fanatics in control? Based on the **(admittedly Western-media-filtered)** evidence before me, I’m forced to at the very least wonder. Well, that and Al-Jazeera. Nope, they’re worthless shit that need to be flushed. Right fucking now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/55 "2006-02-05T07:41:00Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Are all Muslims aggressive fanatics? Hell, no. Most of them? I don’t believe so. But are the aggressive fanatics in control? Based on the (admittedly Western-media-filtered) evidence before me, I’m forced to at the very least wonder. “In control” of what? There are at least 1 billion Muslims in the world. You could marshal 1 million rioters and still only be “in control” of 0.1% of all Muslims. And I’m not condoning what’s been done, just pointing out that no one is really “in control” here. The more violent the response, the bigger the press converage. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/56 "2006-02-05T07:53:15Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > “In control” of what? There are at least 1 billion Muslims in the world. You could marshal 1 million rioters and still only be “in control” of 0.1% of all Muslims. And I’m not condoning what’s been done, just pointing out that no one is really “in control” here. The more violent the response, the bigger the press converage. That’s all. Absolutely. Similarly, I’m sure many an Arab Muslim believes that all Americans are fascistic warmongers who want to rule the world and who condone torture of innocents and minors; considering what they see of us, through the war that’s right on their doorstep and their own propaganda that mirrors our own, is it any surprise? But just as I don’t want to be painted with that broad brush because I’m an American, I can’t fathom doing the same thing to Muslims “_as a whole_.” ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/57 "2006-02-05T08:03:07Z")
From [Neal Boortz’ Friday column](http://boortz.com/nuze/200602/02032006.html): > [@](#): > > I know and understand that these bloodthirsty murderers do not represent the majority of the world’s Muslims. When, though, do they become outraged? When do they take to the streets to express their outrage at the radicals who are making their religion the object of worldwide hatred and ridicule? Islamic writer Salman Rushdie wrote of these silent Muslims in a New York Times article three years ago. “As their ancient, deeply civilized culture of love, art and philosophical reflection is hijacked by paranoiacs, racists, liars, male supremacists, tyrants, fanatics and violence junkies, why are they not screaming?” ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/58 "2006-02-05T08:26:01Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > But are the aggressive fanatics in control? Who controls the aggressive fanatics? I haven’t read it in this thread but maybe it’s in the news, by now. Danish tv reported ye´sterday evening that the burning started when a rumour spread that there was going to be burning of the Koran in Copenhagen. It was spread by SMS (text messages). Note that this started after the Danish P.M. made statement, trying to calm things down, and shortly after Hamas won the election. It’s all been a wonderful way for the tugs that run the police state that is Syria to turn away attention from other things. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/59 "2006-02-05T14:37:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > “In control” of what? There are at least 1 billion Muslims in the world. You could marshal 1 million rioters and still only be “in control” of 0.1% of all Muslims. And I’m not condoning what’s been done, just pointing out that no one is really “in control” here. The more violent the response, the bigger the press converage. That’s all. The fanatics look for damned sure to be in control of the public face of Islam, don’t they? Where are the overwhelming masses of moderates (that I agree exist) willing to stand up in public and condemn the fanatics? How many governments in Muslim-dominated countries are condemning the rioters and suppressing them rather than encouraging them? Think about the comment from Salman Rushdie that **danceswithcats** posted. Do the silent majority of Muslims hold their tongues because they fear the violent wrath of the fanatics? If so, what does that say about who’s in control of Islam’s position in the eyes of the world? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/60 "2006-02-05T14:54:58Z")
I think the silent majority of Muslims hold their tongues because they agree with the fanatics. There are message-boards for muslims where you can read what the silent majority thinks. I know some Dutch ones www.elqualem.nl - www.maroc.nl - www.wijblijvenhier.nl - but that won’t help you, huh. There’s also [www.masnet.org](http://www.masnet.org). Take a look over there. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023.md?page=4)