# Angry Muslim crowd torches embassies **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023 "2006-02-04T20:35:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/121 "2006-02-05T23:30:13Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Maybe not. But we can start by drawing a line at our own borders. As soon as the radicals start telling us what we can publish, what our women can do, etc… “Our women.” hahaha ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/122 "2006-02-05T23:49:39Z")
> [@bluethree](#): > > “Our women.” hahaha WTF? What are you trying to imply with that? I could have said, “Our men”, or “Our newspaper publishers”. Are you suggesting that I used the phrase in the posessive? If so, screw you. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/123 "2006-02-06T00:23:49Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Let’s see… You’re the one picking out tiny extremist groups and using them to claim that ‘all fundamentalism’ is dangerous. I’m using them to claim that fundamentalism is inherently dangerous. The Vactican, by the way, isn’t a fundamentalist state. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > I give you an example of an entire fundamentalist community that believes in nothing worse than peace and tolerance, and you handwave it away as a mere anecdote? It is a mere anecdote. History is replete with more people willing to kill others over their religion than people who want to live in peace and harmony between religions. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > You’re the one making the sweeping generalization. If I can provide counter-examples, doesn’t it kind of destroy your sweeping generalization? No. You can show incidences where fundamentalism did not lead to bad things but that doesn’t change the fact that wanting to enforce your religion on other people is inherently dangerous. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > Do you know how many pacifist fundamentalist sects of various religions there are? How about the Quakers? Are they dangerous too? If we ‘tolerate’ them, are we running a risk that they will suddenly discover the joys of executing homosexuals and strapping on suicide belts? I was specifically refering to governmental entanglement with fundamentalists. Can we move the goalposts back now? > [@Sam Stone](#): > > Because the examples you gave are extreme outliers and very tiny groups, or not the result of fundamentalism at all (the India/Pakistan thing is territorial, and the KKK didn’t string up blacks because their religion told them to, but because they were racist assholes. False dichotomy in both cases. You want cites of Indian/Pakistani violence that was based solely along religious rather than territorial lines? In addition, the KKK most certainly did use religious rhetoric to back their actions. It is odd that you gloss over that. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > They could have been athiests and they would still have been stringing up blacks). Indeed. But atheists are a bit less likely to attack Catholics for not following the right religion, or burn crosses. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/124 "2006-02-06T00:27:26Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > If someone can see a rosier scenario for the next decade or so, please elaborate, because the future I see is dismal. I’d agree with virtually everything you’ve said, I think that the rise of Islamic Fundamentalism is probably the most serious problem facing the world right right. I just find it odd that I can’t point out that other forms of fundamentalism are a problem as well without all this. It does feel like the O’Reilly Factor where if someone criticizes America then examples of ‘greater evils’ are trotted out and the “why do you hate America” meme is thrown in their face. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/125 "2006-02-06T00:42:22Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I just find it odd that I can’t point out that other forms of fundamentalism are a problem as well without all this. It does feel like the O’Reilly Factor where if someone criticizes America then examples of ‘greater evils’ are trotted out and the “why do you hate America” meme is thrown in their face. You aren’t going to get an argument from me. Fundamentalism of all colors is a major problem. But I do agree that Islamic fundamentalism is the one most likely to bring about WWIII. Phelps isn’t burning embassies. Robertson talks a good game, but he hasn’t kidnapped and behaeded anybody that I know of. Falwell doesn’t have an army of suicide bombers at his disposal. Should we do everything possible in a democratic society to minimalize the impact of these nutballs? Certainly. Is it the biggest, deadliest, most dangerous fundamentalist problem the world faces today? Not by a long shot. We have to allocate our forces where they will do the most good. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/126 "2006-02-06T01:03:44Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I just find it odd that I can’t point out that other forms of fundamentalism are a problem as well without all this. I think the thing is, **Finn** , that other people come into this thread wanting to talk about what you so rightly called the most serious problem facing the world right now, and it’s counter-productive to that end to get bogged down in discussing examples of other, lesser behavior that bears only scant similarity to the problems going on now in the Muslim world. Regards, **SA** ---
**Author:** ![Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pope_Bob_The_Pious)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/127 "2006-02-06T01:06:55Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Indeed. But atheists are a bit less likely to attack Catholics for not following the right religion, or burn crosses. [But atheist ‘fundamentalists’ certainly have attacked religious people for having the ‘wrong’ beliefs.](http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/soviet.exhibit/anti_rel.html) ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/128 "2006-02-06T01:09:59Z")
> [@Pope Bob The Pious](#): > > [But atheist ‘fundamentalists’ certainly have attacked religious people for having the ‘wrong’ beliefs.](http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/soviet.exhibit/anti_rel.html) Countdown until someone comes in claiming communism is a religion: 3… 2… ---
**Author:** ![Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pope_Bob_The_Pious)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/129 "2006-02-06T01:18:27Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Countdown until someone comes in claiming communism is a religion: That someone won’t be me, but I would claim that ‘communism’ (or whatever it was the Soviets and Maoist Chinese and other practiced) can present a very rigid and intolerant belief structure. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/130 "2006-02-06T01:22:19Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I just find it odd that I can’t point out that other forms of fundamentalism are a problem as well without all this. No one is saying you can’t point it out; we’re saying you have no sense of proportion. It’s as if we are being chased by a chainsaw-wielding homicidal maniac, and you insist on pointing out that the guy next door seems a bit creepy, too. Putting people who oppose gay marriage or deny evolution in the same category with people who celebrate the death of children is moral idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/131 "2006-02-06T10:41:20Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > You might want to check a dictionary. “Logical” is, in fact, not the same word as “illogical”. But, of course, you’re going to continue to obfuscate the issue. I believe you’ve started a new logical fallacy: the argument edified by endless repition of the word “obfuscation” (or a variation). Let’s try to count them, shall we? This is number one, sports fans. > [@](#): > > Yay! Obfuscation! And a fallacy of equivocation! Wheeeeeeee! > > Fundamentalism often demands that others live by your religious laws. You can pretend that this potential exists in secular folks, but you’ll just be making an absolutely absurd claim. But if you’re right, than the fundamentalist movement is dead, it cannot grow, there will never be any other members in it to produce the horrible momentum toward theocracy that you’re so worried about. If non-fundamentalists have no potential to cross over into fundamentalism, than we have nothing to worry about. If they do, then everyone is equivalent according to your bizarre syllogism. By the way, that’s two. > [@](#): > > You’re being obfuscatory and wilfully ignorant. Now stop it. Three. Wow, the more you say this, the more it takes on the aura of an actual argument. > [@](#): > > Militant ignorance, eh? I take it you’re 100% unaware of the Dominionist position or their influence on the government? “whatever that is”, indeed. > > And no, you’re yet again obfuscating, I’m not ‘dancing’ around anything, at all. You’re ignorant of the situation so you’re babbling at me. The issue is that Dominionists and their ilk are dangerous, even if they haven’t gained power yet, and they are trying to. Four! What a great argument you have! “Stratocaster, I’m not dancing. Oh, no! It’s _you_ who are obfuscating like a madman.” > [@](#): > > Again, you’re obfuscating. Since the issue is one of degree then you’d have to be saying that your cruises routinely run into smaller icebergs. > > It’s like someone says “icebergs are inherently dangerous” and you respond by saying “hey sparky, you’re illogical, other things are dangerous too, and not every iceberg is as big as those that sunk the Titanic.” Five! We’re close to a world record, sports fans. No, I am not saying cruises routinely run into icebergs. The comparison was simply to point out that while some things can have surface similarities, a single important distinction can make them effectively worlds apart. Again, that whole degree thing you can’t seem to grasp. > [@](#): > > What… you want to play both sides of the argument now? You’re claiming that my statement that they were both wrong but there was a difference of degree somehow invalidates my position that they’re both wrong but there’s a matter of degree? OK, try to stay with me here, genius. My entire point could be distilled down to this: the existence of fundamentalist whack-jobs in a given society is not enough to draw an equivalency, in that any large society will have this fringe. The degree of their influence and the size of the movement are what is important in drawing an equivalency, and comparisons between radical Muslim fundamentalism and U.S. Christian fundamentalism is ridiculous. > [@](#): > > No, deliberately inflamatory and wilfully ignorant fellow. You’re either tremendously foolish or deliberately baiting me. I haven’t said that everybody is the same, but that fundamentalism has certain dangers associated with that. You have responded with evasion and obfuscation. Six! We have a new world record! And, no, you’re not simply saying that. You’re drawing an equivalency between all types and occurrences of fundamentalism, something that is ridiculous on its face. You can’t seem to find the intellectual honesty to unequivocally make this self evident concession when called on it. > [@](#): > > I have also never said anything was ‘the same’ except the _dynamic_. You want to debate in good faith any time soon, or merely continue with the strawmen and obfuscation? Seven! Folks, we’re witnessing history here. This is an “obfuscation” clean sweep. This should be an Olympic event, I tells ya. Listen, bud, address my actual points this time. If I have obfuscated, explain why. You have become more than tiresome. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/132 "2006-02-06T11:34:17Z")
> [@HeelB4Zod](#): > > I > Fuck these fucked up societies. Grow up, you fucking riotous ninnies. Mohammed can take care of himself without any help from you morons. Jesus can cope with a glimpse of Jackson boob too (If jesus every exisited). ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/133 "2006-02-06T12:36:30Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > It’s _you_ who are obfuscating like a madman! Actually, I think the phrase is “like a mother fuck.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/134 "2006-02-06T12:44:59Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Countdown until someone comes in claiming communism is a religion: > > 3… 2… The “cult of Personality” is a quasi-religion, though. Under any system. ---
**Author:** ![Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pope_Bob_The_Pious)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/135 "2006-02-06T12:55:37Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Jesus can cope with a glimpse of Jackson boob too (If jesus every exisited). I must have missed all the Christian rioting over the wardrobe malfunction. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/136 "2006-02-06T13:29:58Z")
> [@Pope Bob The Pious](#): > > I must have missed all the Christian rioting over the wardrobe malfunction. True dat. A small subset logging complaints over the phone is not the same as a small subset rioting and destroying property. Had they taken to the streets I would agree with you, but they didn’t so it’s a very different situation. ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/137 "2006-02-06T13:33:30Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Yeah, yeah, yeah. We _all_ do, huh. > the Netherlands does > Denmark does > France does > England does > > We’re ALL racists, correct? > > Has anyone ever thought about the fact that not one of these countries had problems before? > Denmark and the Netherlands were famous for their tolerance. Are you trying to say that none of these countries ever had racial/religious uprisings and problems within recent years (we’ll say back to the 1970s) before the Muslims came? Because if that’s what you think, you’re nuttier than a fruitcake, and/or ignorant of 20th century history. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/138 "2006-02-06T13:58:38Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Countdown until someone comes in claiming communism is a religion: > > 3… 2… … 1… 0. Ignition. Liftoff. For many practical purposes, communism was an essentially religious movement. It may have lacked explicitly supernatural doctrines, but the fact is that communism held forth a vision of a bright, shining future, a future of unparalleled peace, prosperity, freedom and brotherhood, that attracted many of its followers into the fold and kept them there in much the same way that the promise of Heaven or the Kingdom of God does for many religious believers. The psychological principle is pretty much the same. That’s certainly one of the things that attracted me to the philosophy and the movement. It’s not at all an unreasonable comparison. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/139 "2006-02-06T14:28:48Z")
> [@UnwrittenNocturne](#): > > Are you trying to say that none of these countries ever had racial/religious uprisings and problems within recent years (we’ll say back to the 1970s) before the Muslims came? Because if that’s what you think, you’re nuttier than a fruitcake, and/or ignorant of 20th century history. I was in Europe in the seventies, briefly though and in my old age my memories are fading. I can’t recall any racial/religious uprisings in the countries that **Gum** has mentioned. Can you please provide a cite. With regard to **Gum** , I like her. I understand she’s been pushing the envelope of appropriate criticism of Islam and her specific remark regarding inbreeding certainly was over the top and unfortunate. Yet she’s the only one here that I’m aware of who’s done anything for the Muslim victims of the Muslim religion, chooses not to ignore them, and is well placed to feel the pain of her beloved liberal society going down the tubes. I’m sure that there isn’t a racist bone in her body, but she is a fighter and her enemy has clearly become the Muslim religion in her country. **Gum** , please take a deep breath and withdraw that racist remark. I hope to hear a lot more from you in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023/140 "2006-02-06T14:58:01Z")
It’s standard practice in the Muslim world for families to arrange marriages between first cousins. Many in the West consider this to be inbreeding. Whether or not it has resulted in a large percentage of them having brain damage as a result, I cant say. But this is a known fact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-muslim-crowd-torches-embassies/343023.md?page=8)