# Angry rant about something I saw on COPS **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765 "2003-03-12T06:18:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/41 "2003-03-13T14:39:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*Well, refusing a search would have been futile, and the jury could have interpreted his refusal for a search as a sign he knew what was in the car. A tragic mix up none the less though. \*\* What makes you think refusing a search would have been futile? If the police have probable cause to search your car, they don’t _need_ your permission. They can search your car _on the spot without a warrant_. They might have called a canine unit out, they might have shrugged and let him go. > [@](#): > > **As long as you are innocent, and not dealing with a corrupt cop, and don’t have children, what do you have to lose? In the event that your mechanic leaves a baggie in your car, you are screwed whether they search now or later.** The point is, if you refuse, unless they call a canine unit out and the dog indicates that you have drugs in your car, they don’t search later. They don’t search at all. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/42 "2003-03-13T14:54:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tristan \* > \*\*The people who don’t consent to searches when they have no reason not to? > > Idiots. Goat felching losers that would be more than happy to suck up the time and manpower of the police while murderes and rapists get more time to run. > > If I’m driving a car, and I get stopped, as long as I know there is nothing illegal in my car (and I will know. Count on that) I have no reason to say no. Doing so is like waving a flag at a bull. > > All the so called “Civil Libertarians” who refuse to let their cars be searched are also, I have found, the ones who bitch the loudest that the cops aren’t responding quickly when someone is blaring their music too loud. > > Maybe if the cops weren’t wasting their time with grandstanding losers, they would have gotten their quicker. \*\* The police want to spend an hour and a half going through every item in my car looking for drugs and illegal weapons with no probable cause to do so and _I’m_ the one wasting _their_ time? ---
**Author:** ![Riboflavin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Riboflavin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riboflavin)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/43 "2003-03-13T17:03:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tristan \* > The people who don’t consent to searches when they have no reason not to? Oh, that doesn’t include me then. I have the reason that I don’t want to risk some technical violation being discovered, or some illegal substance from another person, plus the reason that I value my privacy and don’t want people pawing through my stuff. Do you mind if I go poke through you car, your pockets, or your house if the mood strikes me? Why should I respond to a policeman who has **no justification** for a search any differently (if he has justification, he doesn’t need consent)? > [@](#): > > Idiots. Goat felching losers that would be more than happy to suck up the time and manpower of the police while murderes and rapists get more time to run. How in the Hell is it the fault of the victim of a police fishing expidetion that the police are wasting their time wanting to search with no probable cause? Hell, if anything refusing a search will make the police waste **less** time! > [@](#): > > If I’m driving a car, and I get stopped, as long as I know there is nothing illegal in my car (and I will know. Count on that) I have no reason to say no. Doing so is like waving a flag at a bull. How, **exactly** is it like waving a flag at a bull? Are you asserting that a citizen requesting that a cop follow the law is a justification for said cop to break the law? Because if the cop doesn’t have probable cause he’s going to have to let you go without a search, and if he does have it then your consent is not neccesary for him to search the vehicle. If the cop is asking to search, he obviously thinks you’re doing something wrong and is looking for something to charge you with, so it’s not really relevant that he might want to charge you with something. > [@](#): > > All the so called “Civil Libertarians” who refuse to let their cars be searched are also, I have found, the ones who bitch the loudest that the cops aren’t responding quickly when someone is blaring their music too loud. You seriously don’t see any difference between wanting the police to respond to a violation of the law with very obvious probable cause and wanting the police to only search your property if they have probable cause? > [@](#): > > Maybe if the cops weren’t wasting their time with grandstanding losers, they would have gotten their quicker. It’s really sick that people who excercise basic constitutional rights are ‘grandstanding losers’ in your worldview. “My god, that man didn’t let the police do a cavity search on him! What a sicko, he’s waving a red flag at a bull!” ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/44 "2003-03-13T17:30:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tristan \* > \*\* > Idiots. Goat felching losers that would be more than happy to suck up the time and manpower of the police while murderes and rapists get more time to run. > \*\* hmm, if Johnny Bacon is wasting his time with innocent bambie-eyed me and there’s a call about a murderer rampaging through the city with a bottle of tequila in one hand and a rocket launcher in the other. I think the avg person, thats is to say a person without skewed fucking logic, would lay blame to Johnny Bacon > [@](#): > > \*\*If I’m driving a car, and I get stopped, as long as I know there is nothing illegal in my car (and I will know. Count on that) I have no reason to say no. Doing so is like waving a flag at a bull. > \*\* I am sorry you have this tremendous fear of cops… > [@](#): > > \*\*All the so called “Civil Libertarians” who refuse to let their cars be searched are also, I have found, the ones who bitch the loudest that the cops aren’t responding quickly when someone is blaring their music too loud. > \*\* Thats a pretty big fucking brush you have there, is it horse-hair or synthetic? > [@](#): > > \*\*Maybe if the cops weren’t wasting their time with grandstanding losers, they would have gotten their quicker. \*\* Again, if JB is wasting his time looking through my car… ---
**Author:** ![LiquidChaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/77aa72/32.png) [@LiquidChaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiquidChaos)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/45 "2003-03-13T17:33:33Z")
The way I see it (and I am probally wrong) is that a search should only be used to find further evidence of the crime that originally lead to the police being involved. For instance, if I get pulled over for running a stop light, searching my trunk would not provide any further evidence that I ran said stop light. I have and will continue to refuse searchs for the simple matter of it is my car and I don’t want you going through it. I feel that police should be reactive not proactive, but that is a whole other matter. I understand that some big criminals have been caught due to searching cars after a traffic stop, and I think that the police should have the right to ask for consent for a search. If you want to grant that consent, go right ahead. 99.9% of the people searched will have nothing and will be thanked and sent on their way. For me, it is just a personal thing. To second what Riboflavin mentioned, it is very sad to see so many people wanting to live in a police state. When the police begin walking through your front door without warning and without proper warrant just to “look around”, just take a look back where it all began. ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/46 "2003-03-13T17:37:34Z")
that last one should read : "Again, if JB is wasting time _with trying to look through my car"_… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/47 "2003-03-13T18:12:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LiquidChaos \* > **The way I see it (and I am probally wrong) is that a search should only be used to find further evidence of the crime that originally lead to the police being involved. For instance, if I get pulled over for running a stop light, searching my trunk would not provide any further evidence that I ran said stop light. I have and will continue to refuse searchs for the simple matter of it is my car and I don’t want you going through it.** Bingo. The cop can do some basic stuff after pulling you over for a traffic violation, including issuing a ticket or warning, checking you for outstanding warrants, and giving you the once-over for obvious signs of impairment, but once he gives your license and registration back to you, you should get the heck outta there and refuse anything along the lines of: “Y’know, there’s a lot of drug traffic moving up and down this road. I wonder if you might let have a quick look-see through…” The rest of the pitch should be drowned out by the sound of you pulling away. **World Eater** is focussing on the best-case scenario (the cop really does take a “quick look-see” consisting of a cursory five-minute search) and ignoring all the potential worst-case scenarios (the cop takes every single loose item out of your car, stacking them up on the road’s shoulder in the rain, and finds a old package of foot-powder etc.). Since you have absolutely no way of knowing in advance which version will occur, your consenting to a search puts you at the mercy of this particular police officer, who may or may not be all that competent. I wouldn’t agree to a purchase contract that let the seller deliver a million units, or none, at his discretion, and I won’t consent to a search with results that can only range from neutral to really really bad. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/48 "2003-03-13T18:39:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Riboflavin \* > \*\*It’s sad how many people seem to want to live in a police state. \*\* Oh fucking please. Point out where I am campaigning for our constitutional rights to be stripped away. From my apparently limited point of view on the matter, I simply thought if I’ve got nothing illegal in my car, it’s better to search away so I can be on my way. Evidently there are far more contingencies and rules of due process that I was aware of, and it’s not the simple black and white issue I thought it to be. In any event that hardly constitutes a desire to live in a police state you numbfuck. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/49 "2003-03-13T18:43:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Riboflavin \* > \*\*It’s sad how many people seem to want to live in a police state. \*\* Oh fucking please. Point out where I am campaigning for our constitutional rights to be stripped away. From my apparently limited point of view on the matter, I simply thought if I’ve got nothing illegal in my car, it’s better to search away so I can be on my way. Evidently there are far more contingencies and rules of due process that I was aware of, and it’s not the simple black and white issue I thought it to be. In any event, that hardly constitutes a desire to live in a police state you numbfuck. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/50 "2003-03-13T18:47:32Z")
_was not aware of_ ---
**Author:** ![Riboflavin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Riboflavin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riboflavin)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/51 "2003-03-13T19:26:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*Oh fucking please. Point out where I am campaigning for our constitutional rights to be stripped away. OK, let’s have a quick review of the US consitution: > [@](#): > > Amendment IV > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. You think it’s bad for someone to desire to be secure against unreasonable searches as evinced by your comments about people who do not consent to searches that that person and the courts consider unreasonable. > [@](#): > > From my apparently limited point of view on the matter, I simply thought if I’ve got nothing illegal in my car, it’s better to search away so I can be on my way. A search of a vehicle can take hours, so even ignoring your blatant disregard for basic civil liberties your decision is the wrong one. If all you want to do is save time, then don’t consent to the search so you don’t end up spending two hours handcuffed in the back of a squad car while every item in your car is laid out on the roadside. What do you think a search of a vehicle entails anyway, just a quick look in the trunk for dead bodies? > [@](#): > > Evidently there are far more contingencies and rules of due process that I was aware of, and it’s not the simple black and white issue I thought it to be. Yeah, that 4th amendment tends to annoy people who think the police should just cavity search everyone on a whim. > [@](#): > > In any event, that hardly constitutes a desire to live in a police state you numbfuck. Well, Dipshit, looks like you forgot your own words (quoted below). You explicitly said that you would assume that someone was guilty if they had the temerity to assert their 4th amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure. Anyone who believes that a desire not to have random strangers pawing through private property on a whim believes in living in a police state whether they admit it or not. > [@](#): > > I know pleading ignorant to the law is no excuse, but I would assume a jury would think someone had more to hide if they refused a search and was busted anyway. Seems like it would be tougher to convince them of ignorance in that case. I’m not saying this is right mind you, I just know I would see it that way. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/52 "2003-03-13T19:33:18Z")
I would never consent to a seach because I don’t know everything that is and isn’t legal. I don’t have anything obviously illegal like drugs, but there’s a lot of things which could be illegal and I am just ignorant about it. By giving the cops permission to search, you give them permission to look for anything at all that is illegal. But if you make them get a search warrent, they have to explicitly state what they are looking for. For example, say I have a half-full gas can in my trunk. I don’t really know if there’s some law about how to legally transport gas so I don’t think I’m doing anything illegal. But maybe my can isn’t of the proper dimensions and the cop writes me up for that (I know it’s a contrived example). Or maybe I have a leatherman in my glovebox and for some legal reason that’s considered an unlicensed concealed weapon. Or maybe there’s an empty beer can under the seat and he’ll get you for an open container violation. By giving permission to search, you’re basically saying, “Look over everything and bust me for whatever you find wrong.” If they get a search warrent, it will say what they are specifically looking for (like drugs). If I was asked for consent, I would tell the cop “Sir, I support the police and I don’t want to make your job any harder, but I fully support my civil liberties and will not consent to the search.” ---
**Author:** ![culture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@culture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/culture)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/53 "2003-03-13T20:32:17Z")
Everyone knows that we would all be better off if we never cooperated with the police. Huh? I have never understood this “the police are our enemy” thing that seems to be going around. Mybe it comes from people who had some wild teenage years or something. I am not sure. Personally, I like the cops, and I would hate to live in Texas if they were eliminated. Sure, some are idiots, but what group doesn’t have a few? ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/54 "2003-03-13T20:39:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by filmore \* > \*\*If I was asked for consent, I would tell the cop “Sir, I support the police and I don’t want to make your job any harder, but I fully support my civil liberties and will not consent to the search.” \*\* Do yourself a favor, NEVER quote your rights to a member of the Harris County (Texas) Sheriff’s department on the side of the road. Your rights are as follows: You have the right to shut up. You have the right to bleed. You have the right to fall down the stairs 50 or 60 times (in the 1 story jail). I am sure that your rights will be addressed by the judge (on monday), and you may in fact be correct, but on the side of the road, the key to a long and hassle free life is cooperation! if I am asked for consent to search my vehicle and I refuse to give consent and the cops are interested in conducting a search, I ASSURE YOU that my vehicle WILL be searched BEFORE it leaves the scene. When I was younger, I was always running my head about my rights, age has shown me that right, wrong or otherwise pain and hassle SUCK!. unclviny ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/55 "2003-03-13T21:07:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by culture \* > \*\*Everyone knows that we would all be better off if we never cooperated with the police. Huh? > \*\* Oh,Oh I know this one its called a _“strawman”_ arguement, no? No-one said anything about not cooperating with Johnny Bacon under any and all circumstances… ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/56 "2003-03-13T21:11:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by unclviny \* > \*\*Do yourself a favor, NEVER quote your rights to a member of the Harris County (Texas) Sheriff’s department on the side of the road. > \*\* Dont you mean _Hazzard_ county? I’ll keep that in mind if I’m ever in Bowss howg’s county… ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/57 "2003-03-13T21:23:45Z")
Houston is mostly in Harris county, Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/58 "2003-03-13T22:09:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tony Montana \* > **Thats a pretty big fucking brush you have there, is it horse-hair or synthetic?** I think it’s an ass-hair brush. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/59 "2003-03-13T22:16:14Z")
Oh boy \ > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Riboflavin \* > \*\* > You think it’s bad for someone to desire to be secure against unreasonable searches as evinced by your comments about people who do not consent to searches that that person and the courts consider unreasonable._\* No. Please quote where I said it was bad. You seem to think that I want these rights done away with. I was saying what I would do in a situation, and questioned why people would want the additional hassle of not cooperating with the police. Some dopers where quick to point some facts out that I was not aware of, and you where quick to point out how much shit spews out of that asshole under your nose. \*\* > [@](#): > > A search of a vehicle can take hours, so even ignoring your blatant disregard for basic civil liberties your decision is the wrong one. \*\* Me making a choice and giving them permission to search my car is blatantly disregarding my civil liberties? \*\* > [@](#): > > If all you want to do is save time, then don’t consent to the search so you don’t end up spending two hours handcuffed in the back of a squad car while every item in your car is laid out on the roadside. What do you think a search of a vehicle entails anyway, just a quick look in the trunk for dead bodies?\*\* I say “yes search my car”, and they handcuff me and throw me in the back of a squad car for 2 hours. I say “no, you’ll need a warrant”, and they let me go on the spot? Did it ever dawn on you that any cop that handcuffs you and lets you rot in the back of his car for a few hours while he rips your car to pieces and jams on your guitars he found in the trunk, will most likely make your life equally as miserable for not consenting to a search? In other words If a cop is a dick, you’ll lose both ways. You don’t seem to realize this. \*\* > [@](#): > > Yeah, that 4th amendment tends to annoy people who think the police should just cavity search everyone on a whim.\*\* Where did I say this? Is it such an epoch shattering concept that I assumed if you are innocent and have no illegal substances in the car, that consenting to a search will get you on your way faster? \*\* > [@](#): > > Well, Dipshit, looks like you forgot your own words (quoted below). You explicitly said that you would assume that someone was guilty if they had the temerity to assert their 4th amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure. Anyone who believes that a desire not to have random strangers pawing through private property on a whim believes in living in a police state whether they admit it or not. \*\* God your such a dick. Random strangers pawing through private property are in fact officers of the law doing their jobs. Whether they are doing their jobs correctly or not, I’ll guess, is a matter for the court to decide. I won’t lie, if I was on a jury, and the guy refused a search of his car and then was busted with some coke in it or whatever, it would appear to me that the person knew it was in there. **THIS WOULD NOT MAKE THEM AUTOMATICALLY GUILTY, BUT IT WOULD MAKE AN IMPRESSION IN THE BACK OF MY MIND** (Just so you didn’t miss that I said that) I’ve now learned that prosecutors can’t make whether they consented to a search or not known, so it seems to be a moot point. Btw I don’t want a police state, please keep that in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765/60 "2003-03-13T22:35:25Z")
If you find yourself in this situation you should _always_ assert your rights, even if you’ve done nothing wrong. Why? Well think about it… If everyone allowed a cop to search their vehicle, after a while cops would think they have the _right_ to do it. We need citizens to constantly remind cops that _we have rights_ and that there are _limits to their authority_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/angry-rant-about-something-i-saw-on-cops/160765.md?page=4)