# Animal-Human Embryo Hybrids **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266 "2008-10-23T22:54:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/21 "2008-10-24T06:34:34Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Just curious: what _would_ be the implications of animal mitochondria mixing with human DNA? It’s been a long while since eighth-grade biology, so I’m working off of Wikipedia and hasty Google research, but mitochondria supply the cell with energy, correct? Would that have any affect on the human DNA development process? I think mitochondria and the nucleus tend to swap DNA back and fourth through evolution. Mitochondria have their own bits of DNA separate from the nucleus. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/22 "2008-10-24T13:35:46Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Also, once we get past our queasiness about letting them grow, why not stunt the “human consciousness” factor so we can breed humanoid servant-animals, or perhaps humanoid food-animals for those who want to try cannibalism, OR animalistic humans for those who want to try bestiality? All very fascinating, but might there be a down side we haven’t thought of? ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/23 "2008-10-24T15:08:08Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I’m still not over the fact that there are so many kids today who don’t know who their biological father is because there mother picked out a face on a catalogue that she couldn’t take home. Right. I long for the days when there were so many kids who didn’t know who their biological father was because their mother picked out a guy at a bar, took him home for a night and never saw him again. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/24 "2008-10-24T15:21:32Z")
> [@Ataraxy](#): > > Would the next American administration consider something like this? [Obama](http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2008/10/17/stem_cell_debate_resurfaces_after_lingering_in_background/) has said he would lift the federal funding ban, but would he consider something like this? I hope so. The NPR report on this I heard yesterday afternoon said that there are American labs doing human/animal hybrids already. I presume this to mean that they’re doing it without federal funding. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/25 "2008-10-24T15:25:32Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Right. I long for the days when there were so many kids who didn’t know who their biological father was because their mother picked out a guy at a bar, took him home for a night and never saw him again. Well I have good news for you. Its still happening. And its unfortunate in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/26 "2008-10-24T17:26:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Not quite; it would have animal mitochodria ( they are in the cytoplasm not the nucleus as I recall ) with their own DNA. Whether that will be a good, bad or indifferent thing is the sort of thing that needs to be tested. These experiments (swapping out the nucleus from one organism into a cell of another) have been performed for ages, just not with humans. In all cases, the adult organism has been indistinguishable from a normal member of the nucleus-donor’s species. > [@](#): > > I think mitochondria and the nucleus tend to swap DNA back and fourth through evolution. Mitochondria have their own bits of DNA separate from the nucleus. Mitochondria do have their own DNA, but it’s truly their own, not swapped with the nucleus. They originated as separate bacteria-like organisms which got absorbed into other cells. Their DNA is all about making more mitochondria, not anything about the traits of the host cell. ---
**Author:** ![MrBerious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MrBerious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrBerious)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/27 "2008-10-24T17:36:13Z")
I’m against, if only because it’d encourage the furries. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/28 "2008-10-24T18:30:16Z")
Wait!..won’t somebody please think of the children ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/29 "2008-10-24T23:02:03Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > This reminds me of something my anthropology prof said a week or two ago. Apparently, nobody knows whether humans and chimpanzees can interbreed. We’re much closer genetically than tigers and lions, and they can interbreed (though only the female offspring are fertile). It’s just that nobody has ever tried it because… well _because_. If anyone has tried human-chimp in vitro fertilization, they haven’t told anyone. We can’t know for sure unless someone tries, and nobody wants to (or has a reason to). My anthro prof said similar things, implying the inevitability of an impending wave of humanzee creation. What I want to know is whether they are going to be allowed to get drivers licenses. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/30 "2008-10-25T00:06:49Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > My anthro prof said similar things, implying the inevitability of an impending wave of humanzee creation. What I want to know is whether they are going to be allowed to get drivers licenses. If we keep monkeying with the DNA, we may well be able to create Humanzees who can successfully ape Human behavior. But in the end, all they’re going to do is hurl feces every time they get upset. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/31 "2008-10-25T03:06:06Z")
And if we can take anyone’s word on this subject, obviously it’s that of a **Chimera**. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/32 "2008-10-25T03:41:30Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > This reminds me of something my anthropology prof said a week or two ago. Apparently, nobody knows whether humans and chimpanzees can interbreed. We’re much closer genetically than tigers and lions, and they can interbreed (though only the female offspring are fertile). It’s just that nobody has ever tried it because… well _because_. If anyone has tried human-chimp in vitro fertilization, they haven’t told anyone. We can’t know for sure unless someone tries, and nobody wants to (or has a reason to). For the tiger/lion evolution, it depends on how you measure it. The lion/tiger line probably split more recently than the human/chimp line, but species in the genus \*Panther \*have a much shorter breeding cycle than either chimps or humans. It should also be noted that all members of the genus \*Panther \*are interfertile, not just lions and tigers. Closer to home, we know that different species of gibbons which are much more distantly related than humans and chimps are interfertile. In fact, I’m not aware of any two large mammal species that are as closely related as chimps and humans are that are known to be not interfertile. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/33 "2008-10-25T04:18:19Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > This reminds me of something my anthropology prof said a week or two ago. Apparently, nobody knows whether humans and chimpanzees can interbreed. We’re much closer genetically than tigers and lions, and they can interbreed (though only the female offspring are fertile). It’s just that nobody has ever tried it because… well _because_. If anyone has tried human-chimp in vitro fertilization, they haven’t told anyone. We can’t know for sure unless someone tries, and nobody wants to (or has a reason to). [Apparently it has been tried at least once.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov_(biologist)) ---
**Author:** ![MaceMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@MaceMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaceMan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/34 "2008-10-25T07:46:29Z")
I can’t imagine what these experiments are supposed to show. So-called “maternal effect” genes heavily influence early embryonic development. As these are supplied by the mother in the form of cytoplasmic proteins and RNA in the egg, it seems that their functions might be involved somehow. But why the interspecies twist? And why _human_ nuclei? Certainly, it can’t be an ethical choice to avoid the destruction of human embryos while advancing research, since these ARE human embryos. And transplantation can’t be their goal either. Chimeric animals, formed by mixing intact cells from embryos of two different species, have already been created. But, the distribution of both types of animal cells throughout the body is unpredictable, depending on how the cells happen to divide and segregate during development. To me, it seems that carefully controlling how the cells segregate in a chimera would be a better way to make, for example, pigs with human hearts. It is my belief that such research should be performed exclusively in animals until the process is perfected. ---
**Author:** ![puppygod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@puppygod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puppygod)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/35 "2008-10-25T11:42:44Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > If we keep monkeying with the DNA, we may well be able to create Humanzees who can successfully ape Human behavior. > > But in the end, all they’re going to do is hurl feces every time they get upset. Have you seen The Pit? It’s purebreed human behavior to hurl feces at the drop of a hat. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266/36 "2008-10-25T13:44:37Z")
> [@MaceMan](#): > > I can’t imagine what these experiments are supposed to show. So-called “maternal effect” genes heavily influence early embryonic development. As these are supplied by the mother in the form of cytoplasmic proteins and RNA in the egg, it seems that their functions might be involved somehow. But why the interspecies twist? And why _human_ nuclei? Certainly, it can’t be an ethical choice to avoid the destruction of human embryos while advancing research, since these ARE human embryos. > > And transplantation can’t be their goal either. Chimeric animals, formed by mixing intact cells from embryos of two different species, have already been created. But, the distribution of both types of animal cells throughout the body is unpredictable, depending on how the cells happen to divide and segregate during development. To me, it seems that carefully controlling how the cells segregate in a chimera would be a better way to make, for example, pigs with human hearts. It is my belief that such research should be performed exclusively in animals until the process is perfected. According to the link in the OP, the research has nothing to do with embryos or transplants, or subhuman servitor races for that matter. They just want a supply of stem cells to investigate cures for degenerative diseases like Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. Apparently they reckon that hybrid stem cells should be functionally identical to normal stem cells. The problem with using normal human stem cells is not necessarily ethical, but practical: there is currently no reliable way to obtain a continuous supply of fresh human egg cells for research purposes. These days I believe researchers have to rely mostly on the ‘spare’ eggs left over from treatments at fertility clinics, which is hardly an ideal arrangement. On the other hand, if cow or rabbit egg cells can be used instead, simply by implanting a human body cell nucleus, then the supply of egg cells is never farther than the local animal breeder. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/animal-human-embryo-hybrids/469266.md?page=1)