# Anita Sarkeesian **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982 "2014-11-18T18:29:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/1 "2014-11-18T18:29:43Z")
Yes. There’s no doubt sexism in the gaming industry. Yes, there are more men game developers than women. Yes. We’ve talked about this in the GameGate thread. I’m sorry that I’m a little late with this, but I want to specifically talk about Anita Sarkeesian. She’s either clueless or dishonest. The video’s she’s made are full of misinformation. I believe we could use someone with the same said goal as Anita… but why did she have to take a relevant concern about the way people are portrayed in games, and back it up with lies? I’ve been YouTubeing a lot… I should really stop, because most of the videos have tittles that are obviously “Click Bait”. But there are some rational female critics of hers along with some other calm and collected male critics that bring up things that she says are obviously false. Let me be clear that I support her right to say whatever nonsense she wants, and doesn’t deserve death threats. I was going to put this thread in the IMHO boards, but I didn’t know if it would get ugly or not. I don’t think the old “tropes” should go away. I would rather see new ideas expressed, and more female developers. I’m open to anyone who may have a different opinion about her or the gaming industry. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/2 "2014-11-18T18:43:04Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I’m sorry that I’m a little late with this, but I want to specifically talk about Anita Sarkeesian. She’s either clueless or dishonest. The video’s she’s made are full of misinformation. …For example? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/3 "2014-11-18T18:43:11Z")
I have a different opinion about her. But what specifically do you object about what she says? What is she clueless or dishonest about? What misinformation does she spread? What relevant concerns about games has she backed up with what lies? And what are these male critics saying in which videos that you find more convincing? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/4 "2014-11-18T18:49:23Z")
You’d like a rational discussion around one woman’s views on cultural and institutional portrayals of women in games so you put this in the Pit just in case it goes off the rails. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/5 "2014-11-18T18:56:19Z")
Anita Sarkeesian is a hero. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/6 "2014-11-18T19:04:59Z")
This thread should go well. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/7 "2014-11-18T19:06:01Z")
Off the top of my head She says: “The belief that women are somehow a naturally weaker gender is a deeply ingrained socially constructed myth, which is of course completely false.” And "Compounding the problem is the widespread belief that, despite all the evidence, exposure to media has no real world impact. While it may be comforting to think we all have a personal force field protecting us from outside influences, this is simply not the case. Scholars sometimes refer to this type of denial as the “third person effect”, which is the tendency for people to believe that they are personally immune to media’s effects even if others may be influenced or manipulated. Paradoxically and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that media is just harmless entertainment are also the ones most likely to uncritically internalize harmful media messages. In short, the more you think you cannot be affected, the more likely you are to be affected." She also analyzes games giving a very one-sided and narrow look at them. Some of these games I knew about, some aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/8 "2014-11-18T19:10:27Z")
I don’t understand, I’m not attacking the idea that games are sexist. They are. I just wish there was better representation… as for the critics against her, I will look them up when I get home. Two are females. The point is… I believe she going about this wrong. She’s admitted to not being a gamer… though I don’t hold that against her, she didn’t get all of her facts about the games she talked about right. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/9 "2014-11-18T19:15:31Z")
[RE: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Games - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj29-hepBiA) (3 parts) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee8RgbS9ESE ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/10 "2014-11-18T19:16:36Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Off the top of my head > > She says: > > “The belief that women are somehow a naturally weaker gender is a deeply ingrained socially constructed myth, which is of course completely false.” Is she talking about physical strength or something else? To be honest, I’m not sure I’d believe any “quote” from a Gamergate target without full context around it, given how badly I’ve seen the Gamergate types lie and distort what their targets are saying. So, how about the 4 sentences before and after this quote, please, along with a link to her actually saying this, and if it’s a video, to the exact time where she says this. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/11 "2014-11-18T19:18:51Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > "Compounding the problem is the widespread belief that, despite all the evidence, exposure to media has no real world impact. While it may be comforting to think we all have a personal force field protecting us from outside influences, this is simply not the case. Scholars sometimes refer to this type of denial as the “third person effect”, which is the tendency for people to believe that they are personally immune to media’s effects even if others may be influenced or manipulated. Paradoxically and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that media is just harmless entertainment are also the ones most likely to uncritically internalize harmful media messages. > > In short, the more you think you cannot be affected, the more likely you are to be affected." I don’t see any problem with this. It’s a valid opinion. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/12 "2014-11-18T19:23:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t see any problem with this. It’s a valid opinion. So, everything I was told about violence in video games having real life effects are… lies? Or is it just violence against women? She also talks about how, in some games, you can kill women. But… you can also kill men. No mention of that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/13 "2014-11-18T19:25:35Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Off the top of my head > > She says: > > “The belief that women are somehow a naturally weaker gender is a deeply ingrained socially constructed myth, which is of course completely false.” Assuming she’s not talking only about physical strength, she is correct here. It is a pretty deeply ingrained social construct, and it is false. > [@](#): > > And > > "Compounding the problem is the widespread belief that, despite all the evidence, exposure to media has no real world impact. While it may be comforting to think we all have a personal force field protecting us from outside influences, this is simply not the case. Scholars sometimes refer to this type of denial as the “third person effect”, which is the tendency for people to believe that they are personally immune to media’s effects even if others may be influenced or manipulated. Paradoxically and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that media is just harmless entertainment are also the ones most likely to uncritically internalize harmful media messages. > > In short, the more you think you cannot be affected, the more likely you are to be affected." What’s the problem with this statement? It seems to me it’s just saying that media can have some influence on people. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/14 "2014-11-18T19:25:35Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Off the top of my head > > She says: > > “The belief that women are somehow a naturally weaker gender is a deeply ingrained socially constructed myth, which is of course completely false.” This is your big objection? That fact that in both the general culture and in computer games women have been objects requiring rescue? And that since they’re unable to free themselves on their own that would in _no way_ imply a inherent weakness? > [@](#): > > "Compounding the problem is the widespread belief that, despite all the evidence, exposure to media has no real world impact. While it may be comforting to think we all have a personal force field protecting us from outside influences, this is simply not the case. Scholars sometimes refer to this type of denial as the “third person effect”, which is the tendency for people to believe that they are personally immune to media’s effects even if others may be influenced or manipulated. Paradoxically and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that media is just harmless entertainment are also the ones most likely to uncritically internalize harmful media messages. Sounds a lot like the Dunning–Kruger effect. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/15 "2014-11-18T19:27:10Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Is she talking about physical strength or something else? > > To be honest, I’m not sure I’d believe any “quote” from a Gamergate target without full context around it, given how badly I’ve seen the Gamergate types lie and distort what their targets are saying. So, how about the 4 sentences before and after this quote, please, along with a link to her actually saying this, and if it’s a video, to the exact time where she says this. I’ll look for it. 🙂 I also considered that she was talking about physical strength, but I saw the clip where she had said this. If she WASN’T talking about physical strength, she should have been more clear. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/16 "2014-11-18T19:28:53Z")
This pitting has gone to homeopathic levels of weakness. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/17 "2014-11-18T19:30:11Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I’ll look for it. 🙂 > > I also considered that she was talking about physical strength, but I saw the clip where she had said this. If she WASN’T talking about physical strength, she should have been more clear. Q.E.D. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/18 "2014-11-18T19:30:16Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > This is your big objection? That fact that in both the general culture and in computer games women have been objects requiring rescue? And that since they’re unable to free themselves on their own that would in _no way_ imply a inherent weakness? Oh, I agree with you… but what she states is factually incorrect, at least regarding physical strength. So, people who hear this aren’t going to take her arguments that women CAN be strong, because she had to go the extra step to say, they are as strong as men. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/19 "2014-11-18T19:32:06Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > She says: > > “The belief that women are somehow a naturally weaker gender is a deeply ingrained socially constructed myth, which is of course completely false.” > > And > > "Compounding the problem is the widespread belief that, despite all the evidence, exposure to media has no real world impact. While it may be comforting to think we all have a personal force field protecting us from outside influences, this is simply not the case. Scholars sometimes refer to this type of denial as the “third person effect”, which is the tendency for people to believe that they are personally immune to media’s effects even if others may be influenced or manipulated. Paradoxically and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that media is just harmless entertainment are also the ones most likely to uncritically internalize harmful media messages. > > In short, the more you think you cannot be affected, the more likely you are to be affected." I design video games for a living and I agree with both of these points. “Rescue the helpless woman” is over-used as a way to structure player actions. And games, like all forms of art, are capable of transmitting messages, sometimes unintended ones. I’m not seeing how this is evidence for Sarkeesian being “clueless or dishonest”. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/20 "2014-11-18T19:32:52Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Off the top of my head > > She says: > > “The belief that women are somehow a naturally weaker gender is a deeply ingrained socially constructed myth, which is of course completely false.” > > And > > "Compounding the problem is the widespread belief that, despite all the evidence, exposure to media has no real world impact. While it may be comforting to think we all have a personal force field protecting us from outside influences, this is simply not the case. Scholars sometimes refer to this type of denial as the “third person effect”, which is the tendency for people to believe that they are personally immune to media’s effects even if others may be influenced or manipulated. Paradoxically and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that media is just harmless entertainment are also the ones most likely to uncritically internalize harmful media messages. > > In short, the more you think you cannot be affected, the more likely you are to be affected." > > She also analyzes games giving a very one-sided and narrow look at them. Some of these games I knew about, some aren’t. Just to be sure–are you saying the two passages you quoted above are falsehoods? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982.md?page=2)