# Anita Sarkeesian **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982 "2014-11-18T18:29:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/41 "2014-11-18T19:59:34Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > You should be. > > You should also be sorry for just being wrong. At least look up somebody’s actual words before putting new ones in their mouth. How is she not talking about physical strength? Please show me what above points to her talking about any other type of strength. Bullshit I should be sorry. I’m much more disappointed in the responses I’ve got than anything I’ve heard her say. I mean, I know I’m not alone in thinking this stuff. I know she only told part of the story regarding Dinosaur Planet and other games… ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/42 "2014-11-18T20:00:01Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > She also doesn’t tell the whole story about the games she speaks of. > > Trust me, there are plenty of people who see through her, men AND women. > > It’s not about sexism in video games, I WISH IT WAS. **It’s all about her it seems.** I wish I someone else covered this because I think it’s important. Bolding mine. For you it is. You’re focusing on Sarkeesian the person, and explicitly ignoring the important issues, issues about which you’ve actually said you agree with her in the end even if you claim she gives bad arguments for those views. Your understanding of her message has been shown to be unreliable in the first place. So I invite you to take yourself seriously. You say you share the concerns she is voicing. You’ve now seen that your understanding of her arguments is very flawed. So I invite you to either begin ignoring her (after all, why should anything be, as you put it, “all about her”?) and go fight the good fight instead, or else to go watch her stuff with all the gamergate/mra stuff put _out of your mind_, with fresh ears and eyes, and see if it might be she’s got some good arguments after all for these points you claim ultimately to agree with. Then you can go use them yourself, and (again) fight the good fight, instead of this whatever you’re doing in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/43 "2014-11-18T20:02:34Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > You can say that a lot. > > When it comes to proving it you came up waaaaaay short. This is a handful of things I’ve read about the things she has claimed. I don’t just look for anti-Sarkeesian things, I put “Anita Sarkeesian” in a google search, and found a lot of things… I DO agree with her on some things. But I wish she did a better job. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/44 "2014-11-18T20:02:55Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I mean, I know I’m not alone in thinking this stuff. I know she only told part of the story regarding Dinosaur Planet and other games… I’m seein’ a whole lot of “I know…” and “I think…” and “my opinion…” and not much of “here’s evidence:” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/45 "2014-11-18T20:03:54Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > How is she not talking about physical strength? I’m rapidly losing faith in the proposition that you’re participating in this conversation in good faith but… In the provided quotes, she refers to effectiveness, capability, skill, capacity and resilience. All of these are ways in which a person can be “strong” without being “physically strong.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/46 "2014-11-18T20:04:55Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I don’t just look for anti-Sarkeesian things, I put “Anita Sarkeesian” in a google search, and found a lot of things… Please if you’re kidding just stop. This is painful. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/47 "2014-11-18T20:05:26Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > How is she not talking about physical strength? Please show me what above points to her talking about any other type of strength. She says “The damsel in distress is not just a synonym for “weak”, instead it works by ripping away the power from female characters, even helpful or seemingly capable ones.” This is talking about power/empowerment – ability to take action to control one’s situation/destiny/etc. Not physical strength. She says “The pattern of presenting women as fundamentally weak, ineffective or entirely incapable also has larger ramifications beyond the characters themselves and the specific games they inhabit.” Note how weak is followed by “innefective or entirely incapable” – as though these are along the same spectrum. This is also about empowerment and being “active” vs “passive”, and not physical strength. She says “It’s a sad fact that a large percentage of the world’s population still clings to the deeply sexist belief that women as a group need to be sheltered, protected and taken care of by men.” This is clearly not about physical strength. And in light of the above statements, when she says “The belief that women are somehow a “naturally weaker gender” is a deeply ingrained socially constructed myth, which of course is completely false- but the notion is reinforced and perpetuated when women are continuously portrayed as frail, fragile, and vulnerable creatures.” she is clearly talking about power, empowerment, active vs passive, and the like – not physical strength. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/48 "2014-11-18T20:06:17Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > This is a handful of things I’ve read about the things she has claimed. Then maybe you should actually watch her videos instead. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/49 "2014-11-18T20:06:34Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > She’s not saying that games like that shouldn’t exist. Just that we should be conscious of the themes they’re expressing. I think this is the main point most people miss, so I think it bears repeating. The idea isn’t that these games shouldn’t exist. The idea, instead, is that we should be aware of the significance of these games’ existence. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/50 "2014-11-18T20:08:19Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Bolding mine. > > For you it is. You’re focusing on Sarkeesian the person, and explicitly ignoring the important issues, issues about which you’ve actually said you agree with her in the end even if you claim she gives bad arguments for those views. > > Your understanding of her message has been shown to be unreliable in the first place. So I invite you to take yourself seriously. You say you share the concerns she is voicing. You’ve now seen that your understanding of her arguments is very flawed. So I invite you to either begin ignoring her (after all, why should anything be, as you put it, “all about her”?) and go fight the good fight instead, or else to go watch her stuff with all the gamergate/mra stuff put _out of your mind_, with fresh ears and eyes, and see if it might be she’s got some good arguments after all for these points you claim ultimately to agree with. Then you can go use them yourself, and (again) fight the good fight, instead of this whatever you’re doing in this thread. I agree. I REALLY agree that there needs to be a more diverse market out there, and more females should develop games. I honestly didn’t expect this much hostility and actually pictured some people agreeing with me. I invite other people to listen to what she’s saying, because I’m not very good at expressing what I object to. “Unreliable” I guess… But I know she’s wrong in some of the things she has said. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/51 "2014-11-18T20:09:22Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I think this is the main point most people miss, so I think it bears repeating. > > The idea isn’t that these games shouldn’t exist. The idea, instead, is that we should be aware of the significance of these games’ existence. I never said that the games are in danger. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/52 "2014-11-18T20:11:12Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > But I know she’s wrong in some of the things she has said. Which things? It’s not the “weaker” thing, because that clearly wasn’t about physical strength. If you can’t move past that one, then offer some other ones that you think she’s wrong about. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/53 "2014-11-18T20:12:32Z")
It’s like… anyone who attacks a individual feminist around here is a bad person. I know this is in the pit, and I’m open to criticism. Just know I’m on the same side as she claims to be. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/54 "2014-11-18T20:15:13Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I’ll look for it. 🙂 > > I also considered that she was talking about physical strength, but I saw the clip where she had said this. If she WASN’T talking about physical strength, she should have been more clear. She was perfectly clear, if you consider her comment in its full context. The fact that you weren’t able to link to her saying this yourself means you relied on someone else to tell you what she said, and that person probably deliberately stripped out the context from her words. It’s not that you disagree with what she said, it’s that you disagree with a distorted view of what someone told you she said. Basically, the cure here is for you to start thinking for yourself (no offense). ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/55 "2014-11-18T20:15:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Which things? It’s not the “weaker” thing, because that clearly wasn’t about physical strength. If you can’t move past that one, then offer some other ones that you think she’s wrong about. Give me time to do so… What she said about Dinosaur Planet wasn’t “false”, but she really only gave a sliver of the truth. And please tell me how it’s OBVIOUS she’s not talking about physical strength. I read the quote above, but I still think she’s referring to that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/56 "2014-11-18T20:17:43Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > It’s like… anyone who attacks a individual feminist around here is a bad person. It’s like…anyone who pits a person without supplying any evidence or rational arguments is a bad person. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/57 "2014-11-18T20:17:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > She was perfectly clear, if you consider her comment in its full context. > > The fact that you weren’t able to link to her saying this yourself means you relied on someone else to tell you what she said, and that person probably deliberately stripped out the context from her words. > > It’s not that you disagree with what she said, it’s that you disagree with a distorted view of what someone told you she said. > > Basically, the cure here is for you to start thinking for yourself (no offense). I heard HER say it in HER video when I watched it. I still think she’s talking about physical strength. I KNEW the clip was in the video I had watched last night. That’s why I linked to it. I couldn’t find the original quote. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/58 "2014-11-18T20:19:16Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > It’s like… anyone who attacks a individual feminist around here is a bad person. No. Please don’t do this! What it is _actually_ like, is “anyone who mischaracterizes someone else’s arguments and doesn’t understand how to correct themselves when shown that they’ve done so, and continually insists that they know things for which they consistently fail to provide evidence, is doing a bad job.” > [@](#): > > Just know I’m on the same side as she claims to be. Citation needed. I’m being fairly serious here. This is also something you’ve claimed several times, but I’d be very gratified to see _evidence_ for the claim. How is anyone to know that you’re on the same side as the one Sarkeesian claims to be on? What have you done or said about this issue in the past? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/59 "2014-11-18T20:20:08Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I heard HER say it in HER video when I watched it. I still think she’s talking about physical strength. I KNEW the clip was in the video I had watched last night. That’s why I linked to it. I couldn’t find the original quote. Just to be clear, you believe she made the argument that women are in reality as physically strong as men? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/60 "2014-11-18T20:21:08Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I heard HER say it in HER video when I watched it. **I still think she’s talking about physical strength.** I KNEW the clip was in the video I had watched last night. That’s why I linked to it. I couldn’t find the original quote. It has been literally _proven_ to you that she was not referring to physical strength. You may need to be spending your efforts on something else. You’re not doing a good job with this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982.md?page=4)