# Anita Sarkeesian **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982 "2014-11-18T18:29:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/81 "2014-11-18T20:36:53Z")
Yes… I do regret saying that this is “about her”. That was wrong. I don’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/82 "2014-11-18T20:37:15Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Oh, I must be a troll. I mean… in the middle of a culture war, why would I have the nerve to criticize someone? …your repetition of gamergate talking points is what positions yourself as a troll. Reasoned critique of Sarkeesian’s work is entirely possible. But it would rely on you actually having watched/read/listened to her work, and not rely on google searches and using the words of other people and not your own. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/83 "2014-11-18T20:42:12Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …your repetition of gamergate talking points is what positions yourself as a troll. > > Reasoned critique of Sarkeesian’s work is entirely possible. But it would rely on you actually having watched/read/listened to her work, and not rely on google searches and using the words of other people and not your own. Look, I may have gone about it the wrong way, but I DID watch her videos when they came out. So… I may be eating humble pie, but don’t presume that I didn’t watch them. It bothered me o watch them. I want to express why, but I’m relying on Google now, which was a mistake. I should have watched the videos over again. Perhaps even took notes. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/84 "2014-11-18T20:43:49Z")
I don’t even really know what a “troll” is exactly, sooo… I don’t THINK I’m one, and GamerGate is idiotic (I THINK I know what a troll is, but I’m not one, if it’s just a “shit disturber”) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/85 "2014-11-18T20:50:19Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I would call myself a feminist. Oh, we can call ourselves whatever we want now? I’m King of Houston, Emperor of Texas, and one of the few Asian American white supremacists. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/86 "2014-11-18T20:55:21Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Oh, we can call ourselves whatever we want now? > > I’m King of Houston, Emperor of Texas, and one of the few Asian American white supremacists. If you don’t believe me, I don’t give a shit. Sarkeesian: “Do you believe that women should have equal rights to men?” Colbert: “Sure.” Sarkeesian: “And that we should fight for those rights?” Colbert: “Sure.” Sarkeesian: “Great. Then you’re a feminist.” ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/87 "2014-11-18T21:10:04Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > The first… because her videos are not what I even expected. Were you one of the kickstarter backers? I ask because I was, and I was happy with what she did with the money. If you backed her and she disappointed you somehow, I guess you might have a legitimate beef, but if you weren’t a backer why do you care what she did? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/88 "2014-11-18T21:18:40Z")
> [@eulalia](#): > > Were you one of the kickstarter backers? I ask because I was, and I was happy with what she did with the money. If you backed her and she disappointed you somehow, I guess you might have a legitimate beef, but if you weren’t a backer why do you care what she did? I didn’t/couldn’t back her financially, no. I remember being happy she got more than she requested. Then I saw, (I think all), of her videos. I knew it would start a shit storm because, at the time when it was fresh in my head why, I didn’t like where she was going because I could poke holes through her arguments. I wasn’t trying to… but I knew there was plenty of shit she said that would rub people the wrong way, or wasn’t the whole story. I’m not talking about her stance but her research. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > For a little context, [here](http://www.feministfrequency.com/2013/03/damsel-in-distress-part-1/)’s perhaps the speech discussed along with a transcript. > > Some choice bits from it: > > In context, it’s really friggin’ clear she’s not talking about physical strength… I still don’t agree with this, or think that what she said prior is evidence that she’s not talking about physical strength. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/89 "2014-11-18T21:27:08Z")
“Paradoxically and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that they can poke holes in arguments are also the ones most likely to uncritically assume their ability to do so”. I’m paraphrasing of course. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/90 "2014-11-18T21:30:21Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I know she’s made mistakes regarding some games. I’ve told you that she mentions the women that can be killed in certain games, but mentions no where that men are killed too. That’s not a mistake. As Sarkeesian directly addresses in one of Tropes vs Women in Video Games videos, similar in-game actions done to male vs female characters can have different meanings, because they don’t mean the same thing in the broader culture. In this passage, she’s referring to NPC sex workers, but the principle is the same: > [@Women as Background Decoration](#): > > But even if sexualized male NPCs were more prevalent, equal opportunity sexual objectification is still not the solution to this problem, especially considering the existing power differential between men and women in our society. Women are constantly represented as primarily for sex. Men may be sexual too, but they can also be anything else, they are not defined by or reduced to their sexuality and their sexuality is not thought of as something existing chiefly for the pleasure of others. Which means the fundamentally dominant position of men in our culture is not in any way challenged or diminished by the rare male depiction as sex worker. Similarly, a strong man brutalizing a woman means something different from a strong man brutalizing another man. A white person being lynched by an angry crowd means something different than a black person being lynched by an angry crowd. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/91 "2014-11-18T21:31:37Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > “Paradoxically and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that they can poke holes in arguments are also the ones most likely to uncritically assume their ability to do so”. > > I’m paraphrasing of course. lol, I said, when it was fresh in my head. But that was funny. Ok… so I admit to failing. I would rather do that than watch her videos again and take notes. Make fun of me however much you want. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/92 "2014-11-18T21:37:15Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Ok… so I admit to failing. I would rather do that than watch her videos again and take notes. Make fun of me however much you want. This is a little depressing. Your argument so far has been “I believe this, because of this evidence here!” You’ve provided none of that evidence so far, that seems workable; yet your opinion is unchanged. You don’t have to go back and bring back detailed notes of what she said and when. But it seems like if you honestly do not know what parts to refer to that back up your opinion, you should change that opinion, or at least defer it for the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/93 "2014-11-18T21:38:18Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I still don’t agree with this, or think that what she said prior is evidence that she’s not talking about physical strength. Think about this: > [@](#): > > The belief that women are somehow a “naturally weaker gender” is a deeply ingrained socially constructed myth, which of course is completely false- but the notion is reinforced and perpetuated when women are continuously portrayed as frail, fragile, and vulnerable creatures. Think about negative female stereotypes that you’re no doubt familiar with: that women are overly emotional, and prone to [hysteria.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria) Does this result in women being viewed as frail, fragile, and vulnerable? Yes; such arguments were used to argue against women being allowed to vote or own property, for instance. Do these stereotypes have anything to do with upper-body strength? Of course not, it’s not disputed by anyone, Anita Sarkeesian included, that the average man is physically stronger than the average woman. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/94 "2014-11-18T21:40:21Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Ok… so I admit to failing. I would rather do that than watch her videos again and take notes. Make fun of me however much you want. You don’t even have to do that much, the transcipts of each episode are on [Feminist Frequency](http://www.feministfrequency.com). Much faster. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/95 "2014-11-18T21:42:29Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > This is a little depressing. Your argument so far has been “I believe this, because of this evidence here!” You’ve provided none of that evidence so far, that seems workable; yet your opinion is unchanged. > > You don’t have to go back and bring back detailed notes of what she said and when. But it seems like if you honestly do not know what parts to refer to that back up your opinion, you should change that opinion, or at least defer it for the moment. Oh, trust me… I’m definitely reconsidering some things. I really don’t want to do the work, which makes for a failed pitting. I did provide _some_ examples and agree with the youtubers I linked to. But I don’t have the energy to fight this alone. I didn’t expect to be the only person that felt this way about her videos. I know I’m not outside of these message boards. I DID go back on saying it was only about her. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/96 "2014-11-18T21:47:59Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > You don’t even have to do that much, the transcipts of each episode are on [Feminist Frequency](http://www.feministfrequency.com). Much faster. I’ll look those over, and maybe come back to this… feel free to mock me. I admit, I didn’t come here with an adequate defense of my position. I admit that. It’s really hard to respond to everyone when you’re the only one taking a position. I know there where times watching her videos where I was shaking my head. I wish I had done this before, when they just came out. I honestly don’t remember specifics. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/97 "2014-11-18T21:56:17Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I’ll look those over, and maybe come back to this… feel free to mock me. I admit, I didn’t come here with an adequate defense of my position. I admit that. It’s really hard to respond to everyone when you’re the only one taking a position. I know there where times watching her videos where I was shaking my head. I wish I had done this before, when they just came out. I honestly don’t remember specifics. Nah, I’m not the mocking type. What you may be experiencing is just a lack of familiarity with the sort of cultural criticisim that Sarkeesian is doing. I’m no expert, mind you, but there are a lot of core ideas baked into it that are required for understanding, some of which Sarkeesian explains, and some of which she doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/98 "2014-11-18T22:04:43Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Nah, I’m not the mocking type. What you may be experiencing is just a lack of familiarity with the sort of cultural criticisim that Sarkeesian is doing. I’m no expert, mind you, but there are a lot of core ideas baked into it that are required for understanding, some of which Sarkeesian explains, and some of which she doesn’t. This might be the case… I will give her videos another fair shake. I really didn’t mean to sound like an asshole. But you guys are right, I should have fleshed this out in my head more. I’m really not trying to trivialize this. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/99 "2014-11-18T22:22:29Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > And that I put it in the correct context, because you’re all sticklers for that. Geez! You _people_! And your insistence on “honesty”. And “accuracy”. And “actually knowing what I’m talking about before I open my mouth”! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982/100 "2014-11-19T01:06:23Z")
[quote=“MyFootsZZZ, post:9, topic:704982”] [RE: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Games - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj29-hepBiA) (3 parts) [/QUOTE] Any person who requires others to view a YouTube video rather than make an argument that supports his thesis automatically loses the debate. This is especially true if the video is dropped into the thread with no explanation, like a steaming turd. Most especially if the video was made by somebody else not directly involved in the debate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anita-sarkeesian/704982.md?page=6)