Anita Sarkeesian

[Jragon]

@YogSosoth

I won’t disagree that the character of Bayonetta as envisioned by her creators is a hypersexualized but active and willing participant in her sexuality. But to attribute that to the character, which is basically a creation, is wrong. Instead, people should be asking what is the character Bayonetta’s purpose in being created as such an object of sexuality? Why can’t her creators have made her less sexualized? Why did they make her the way she is?

I’ve looked a bit into the creaton of Bayonetta. Hideki Kamiya reportedly created her because he was “tired of always making games with male protagonists.” If you look at Bayonetta, she’s partially just a female version of Dante. Both are largely incredibly exaggerated archetypes – more or less intentional camp and parody of the way protagonists in power fantasy games are treated.

If you want something kind of funny, but to get across the intent she was designed with, Kamiya got legitimately mad (on Twitter I think) when he found out about all the porn and other objectifying fan art of her. I don’t think Kamiya is exactly a feminist, but he clearly thinks of Bayonetta as a character who does what she does for herself. (The art director for Bayonetta is also a woman and largely came up with the design herself, albeit with heavy direction from Kamiya).

That doesn’t mean Bayonetta doesn’t have a ton of problems, she does, but I agree with Leigh Alexander that Bayonetta represents a certain type of female sexuality, ownership, agency, and empowerment we don’t typically see with female characters. Sarkeesian takes the other camp and really sees no redeeming value in her. I definitely see where she’s coming from, but I disagree.

That Japanese ad campaign was still horrible, though.

[Spice_Weasel]

@Zebra

And have you ever dashed on an email to a game company saying Loved the game, but I hate smashing crates or I hate the collecting cards for having sex with NPC women?

How do you think change will come about, if in fact, you want change?

I think change is coming about. People are talking about it thanks to Sarkeesian/GamerGate et al, and some game developers are hearing the message. The culture is shifting as a result of all this. Take the comedy/general interest website Cracked which is arguably sustained by a huge audience of gamers - they’ve come out as unequivocally feminist and they’ve taken a lot of heat for it. They even published an article written by Zoe Quinn. I’ve been reading Cracked for years and I remember not too long ago when it was a total boys club/sausage fest. I’ve seen that culture change and the reason I think it’s so important is that many Cracked writers are indisputably, historically demonstrable lovers of video games. They have a huge audience of gamers who know this. They can’t be accused of being gamer wannabes or hysterical women (most of them are dudes) because they have a long track record of talking about the culture of video games (See: every article David Wong ever wrote.) They can also make fun of the whole thing, too.

I don’t agree with everything they say, not by a long shot, and even I agree the message is getting a bit grating. But I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to have an institution built in part on the love of video games to stand up collectively and say, ‘‘Y’know ladies, we kinda see your point.’’

So what I’m saying is I think talking about it on the internet has been sufficient to effect change. Change is happening. It might not have happened without such wildly disproportionate and misogynistic responses from GamerGaters to sensationalize the whole thing, so even that, I think, has been a net good.

I’d argue, as that article I linked to above did, that we’re on the verge of major growth in the diversity of video games, and not just in the portrayal of women, but in every respect from thematic elements to gameplay. Certainly if I heard of any projects that excite me, I’d throw some money behind it.

[Jragon]

@Jragon

I’ve looked a bit into the creaton of Bayonetta. Hideki Kamiya reportedly created her because he was “tired of always making games with male protagonists.” If you look at Bayonetta, she’s partially just a female version of Dante. Both are largely incredibly exaggerated archetypes – more or less intentional camp and parody of the way protagonists in power fantasy games are treated.

If you want something kind of funny, but to get across the intent she was designed with, Kamiya got legitimately mad (on Twitter I think) when he found out about all the porn and other objectifying fan art of her. I don’t think Kamiya is exactly a feminist, but he clearly thinks of Bayonetta as a character who does what she does for herself. (The art director for Bayonetta is also a woman and largely came up with the design herself, albeit with heavy direction from Kamiya).

That doesn’t mean Bayonetta doesn’t have a ton of problems, she does, but I agree with Leigh Alexander that Bayonetta represents a certain type of female sexuality, ownership, agency, and empowerment we don’t typically see with female characters. Sarkeesian takes the other camp and really sees no redeeming value in her. I definitely see where she’s coming from, but I disagree.

That Japanese ad campaign was still horrible, though.

Also, there are other quotes from her development that are kind of skeevy, I’m not arguing that Kamiya or the Bayonetta team are pure angels here.

[YogSothoth]

@Jragon

I’ve looked a bit into the creaton of Bayonetta. Hideki Kamiya reportedly created her because he was “tired of always making games with male protagonists.” If you look at Bayonetta, she’s partially just a female version of Dante. Both are largely incredibly exaggerated archetypes – more or less intentional camp and parody of the way protagonists in power fantasy games are treated.

But the difference is, Dante isn’t a character who’s defined by his sexuality while Bayonetta certainly is. He might be stereotypically “hot” in that he’s buff, handsome, and has a cool attitude, but he doesn’t kill demons be shooting them with his dick or taking off his pants. There’s no reason Bayonetta couldn’t be created with Dante in mind, in a similarly revealing outfit, but kill demons without resorting to spreading her legs or getting naked.

@Jragon

If you want something kind of funny, but to get across the intent she was designed with, Kamiya got legitimately mad (on Twitter I think) when he found out about all the porn and other objectifying fan art of her. I don’t think Kamiya is exactly a feminist, but he clearly thinks of Bayonetta as a character who does what she does for herself. (The art director for Bayonetta is also a woman and largely came up with the design herself, albeit with heavy direction from Kamiya).

I know about that story. The rest of it is interesting. He was actually mad not because there was simply porn of her, but that the porn was Bayonetta being submissive. He asked the fans if they were going to create porn of her, they do so with her in control of her sexuality and being dominant. Lots of people obliged, weirdly

@Jragon

That doesn’t mean Bayonetta doesn’t have a ton of problems, she does, but I agree with Leigh Alexander that Bayonetta represents a certain type of female sexuality, ownership, agency, and empowerment we don’t typically see with female characters. Sarkeesian takes the other camp and really sees no redeeming value in her. I definitely see where she’s coming from, but I disagree.

I disagree with Sarkeesian that she has no redeeming qualities. I would guess that she feels the blatant sexuality outweighs any possible benefit of Bayonetta being some female role model. In some small ways, her attitude is what she feels female game characters should have. Just not all of the leggy sexual imagery

[Spice_Weasel]

@YogSosoth

I disagree with Sarkeesian that she has no redeeming qualities. I would guess that she feels the blatant sexuality outweighs any possible benefit of Bayonetta being some female role model. In some small ways, her attitude is what she feels female game characters should have. Just not all of the leggy sexual imagery

This raises the interesting question of whether you can have an empowered overtly sexual female character in video games. I certainly believe that’s the case. It’s one of those ‘‘I know it when I see it’’ type of things.

The only parallel I can draw is Emma Frost in the Marvel Universe. Emma Frost would not be Emma Frost if she didn’t flaunt her sexuality. If some feminists started getting up in arms about Emma Frost, I would tell them, ‘‘STFU you don’t understand Emma Frost.’’ But Emma is one in a million super heroines who overtly flaunt their sexuality apropos of nothing. Psylocke comes to mind. It’s hard to imagine her not dressed provocatively but at the same time, it adds absolutely nothing to her character, she isn’t even particularly seductive as a personality, and the way she dresses is just gratuitous.

I feel like this is maybe a rift in feminist thinking, not that I’m all that versed in feminist theory. But I feel like there are two opposing narratives in the feminist dialog, one which says, ‘‘women shalt not be objectified’’ and another which says ‘‘women shalt not be objectified without consent.’’ I’d say I fall in the latter camp.

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@YogSosoth

Don’t you think its a problem that people see them as such,

I wouldn’t be proposing a solution if I didn’t think of it as a problem. It’s absolutely a problem that this is seen this. As you put it:

and even you admit they are seen as different? Shouldn’t “aggressive” be gender-neutral? Shouldn’t “strong” be equally applied to both men and women? The only way people don’t see it neutrally is because of existing societal mores, which are reflected in and reinforced by portrayals of men and women in games.

This! All of this! True, and phenomenally stupid for being true!

You say your solution is more females adopting male characteristics, why not the other way around?

Hey, same deal! Male characters absolutely should adopt traditionally “female” characteristics. I was focusing on the other end because that’s where Anita is firing.

I won’t disagree that the character of Bayonetta as envisioned by her creators is a hypersexualized but active and willing participant in her sexuality. But to attribute that to the character, which is basically a creation, is wrong. Instead, people should be asking what is the character Bayonetta’s purpose in being created as such an object of sexuality? Why can’t her creators have made her less sexualized? Why did they make her the way she is?

Why should they have made her less sexualized? Using exhibitionism as a character trait is entirely valid. Is it pandering? Maybe. You could launch that accusation at literally anything showing sex appeal. Show me a character with sex appeal, and I’ll show you something I can accuse of pandering. In reality, sometimes women choose, of their own free will, to participate in sexual behavior that they find empowering that happens to involve showing it off and flaunting it. See also: the various porn stars who got into porn because they wanted to.

How is it somehow wrong to create a character who legitimately ticks that way? Who is empowered by their sex appeal, rather than demeaned because of it? I see that as the important issue. In no context is Bayonetta ever made to feel anything but empowered about her sexuality. Not whether it’s pandering, not whether the purpose could be construed as “we want boys to get off on this”. Because, again, anything that could theoretically be sexualized can get that treatment.

FWIW, Spice Weasel’s take on the issue nails it. Would Bayonetta be Bayonetta without flaunting it? No. She’d be some other character. Someone completely different. Would Cammy be Cammy if she actually wore realistic combat gear? Yes. And it would make way more sense.

Anita doesn’t ignore the media to criticize her. In fact, I don’t think she’s technically criticizing Bayonetta at all, she criticizing her creators for making her that way.

Yeah, and I think that’s repressive and stupid, and it’s a reason why a lot of feminists also disagree with Anita. It furthers the idea that sex is somehow wrong or bad. She doesn’t know their intent. She can speculate, but there’s nothing to delineate this speculation from speculation of the sort on any other female character who isn’t Mother Theresa. The fact is that everything about Bayonetta’s design implies empowerment. She’s a strong, independent woman who revels in being a woman. Treating this character as bad because you think she was created to pander is just dumb.

@Spice_Weasel

They can also make fun of the whole thing, too.

I really wanted this article to be funny. Good premise, good cause, stupid executional flub.

[wonky]

@Spice_Weasel

This raises the interesting question of whether you can have an empowered overtly sexual female character in video games.

Some of this might depend on how we define, and think of, overt sexuality. So many images of women have them defined with some sexual goal first (either hers or another character’s. Or the player’s) and as a person second, if at all. If that is all there is to “overtly sexual” then no, we can’t really have that and still have a character worth spending time with, just as we couldn’t have a male character who was the same way who was worth spending time with.

On the other hand, if overt sexuality is,“I am a person who is a sexual being, and I won’t be shy about my sexuality” then that would be quite different. Is she a person? Does she get to have attributes that are not just there for someone to wank over? Could you imagine finding the character interesting if you were inside her head? Could the character work in a non-visual medium? I think if you could say “Yes” to all (or maybe just most) of these questions, then you could have an empowered overtly sexual female character.

[Jragon]

@jsgoddess

Some of this might depend on how we define, and think of, overt sexuality. So many images of women have them defined with some sexual goal first (either hers or another character’s. Or the player’s) and as a person second, if at all. If that is all there is to “overtly sexual” then no, we can’t really have that and still have a character worth spending time with, just as we couldn’t have a male character who was the same way who was worth spending time with.

On the other hand, if overt sexuality is,“I am a person who is a sexual being, and I won’t be shy about my sexuality” then that would be quite different. Is she a person? Does she get to have attributes that are not just there for someone to wank over? Could you imagine finding the character interesting if you were inside her head? Could the character work in a non-visual medium? I think if you could say “Yes” to all (or maybe just most) of these questions, then you could have an empowered overtly sexual female character.

I’d say Bayonetta passes all of those except maybe working in a non-visual medium, but that’s because like most games by that developer, it relies heavily on specticle (in that at the end you summon a giant demon to punch God into the sun. Yes, it’s exactly as ridiculous as it sounds).

Edit: Though I will grant that Kamiya did intentionally built the game around the concept of “sexiness”, it goes so deliberately over the top that it’s not really “wank fodder”, it is extremely far in the realm of camp and self parody.

[YogSothoth]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

Why should they have made her less sexualized? Using exhibitionism as a character trait is entirely valid. Is it pandering? Maybe. You could launch that accusation at literally anything showing sex appeal. Show me a character with sex appeal, and I’ll show you something I can accuse of pandering. In reality, sometimes women choose, of their own free will, to participate in sexual behavior that they find empowering that happens to involve showing it off and flaunting it. See also: the various porn stars who got into porn because they wanted to.

While I agree that there are plenty of real women that do use their sexuality as a bludgeon of empowerment, this debate is in the video game realm. Anita’s thesis in her whole series of videos about games is that in the video game world, women are more often than not a sexist trope for the titillation of male players. I feel the talk about real women is out of place when we’re talking about creations that are specifically designed with each pixel, gyration, and moan to elicit their creator’s desired responses from the consumers. You cannot attribute any of Bayonetta’s empowerment to her, she is wholly a creation of men who planned and designed every aspect of her looks and personality. Its like they designed a sex doll and said “She likes it, therefore its empowerment”

Even if Bayonetta reflects real world female empowerment, the over-the-top quality of her sexuality is not convincing to me that her creators did it out of some harmless desires to have a strong female protagonist

@Budget_Player_Cadet

How is it somehow wrong to create a character who legitimately ticks that way? Who is empowered by their sex appeal, rather than demeaned because of it?

I wouldn’t use the word “wrong”, just harmful. And I’m fine with harmful if people are honest about it; the creators to the public, or gamers with themselves. Hell, I own the game, I like the sexuality, I love when she gets naked, and I’ve Googled the pictures. That doesn’t mean I don’t realize its harmful. I’ll speak out for change but in the meantime, I’ll partake. Maybe that makes me a hypocrit, I don’t know. I consume a lot of harmful things but I don’t try to fool myself about it

[MyFootsZZZ]

I watched the 3rd instalment of ‘damsel in distress’ today. Not because I had to, (honestly, it would be easier for me to have this thread go away forever, and act as if I never posted anything about Anita), I really wanted to see it though.

So, I did have some issues with this instalment, however, I’m definitely starting to side with Anita more. I do think she’s hung up on trivial things, ON OCCATION, looking for sexism in just about any game she talks about. She DID mention a game in which she seems to approve of: ‘Beyond Good and Evil’, which IS a damn good game.

My biggest problem with this video is where she talks about a game I’ve never heard of called ‘Spelunky’. It’s an indie game that possesses the ‘damsel in distress’ trope. The game was later re-mastered in HD and with the option to save a man or a dog along with the ‘damsel’.

“Setting aside the fact that, if a female character is easily interchangeable with a dog then it’s probably a pretty good indication that something’s wrong.”

I KNOW what she’s saying, but it seems awfully nit-picky, since in this case, the female character is interchangeable with a man, who’s also interchangeable with a dog. I understand that in the original, it was just a female that you had to save, and putting a dog in her place means that her role wasn’t significant to begin with. However here’s a man you have to rescue too…

She also mentions that the HD version of the game has “boob jiggle”, (when the female breasts move when she moves,) I don’t know how I feel about that because it’s definitely not unheard of for a busty woman’s chest to naturally move if she’s, say, running. Her hair moves as well in the videos I’ve seen. Though I would like to know why it seems that almost all women in videogames are well endowed. Then again, Mario’s an exception when it comes to a male’s typical body image when it comes to games. Most male characters possess big muscles and are tall.

I also started watching “Ms. Male Character”. Though I’m not finished with it, I’m left scratching my head. Ms Pac-Man apparently started a trend, which is pink bows. There are a lot of pink bows out there to differentiate the female characters and male characters. Not just bows, but make-up and clothing that’s typically worn by females. I don’t understand the problem. She says that they are female versions of an already established or default male character… but some of the games she covers, (‘Ice Climber’ for instance), the female and male characters are both present from the start of the game.

Maybe I’m missing something. She mentions that it ‘tends to reinforce a strict binary form of gender expression.’ She goes on to say; ‘The gender binary is an entirely artificial and socially constructed division of male and female into two distinctly separate and opposing classes of human being.’

It’s too bad she didn’t bring up that Birdo in SMB 2 USA, who wears a pink bow, is, (according to the instruction book), a male character. And what about Samus? We don’t even have enough information about the character until we, (the player), discovers that they’ve been playing a female all along.

She also talks about “The Koopa Kids” from the Mario series, (they made their first appearance in Super Mario Bros. 3). The one girl, Wendy has a pink bow, lipstick, a necklace, high heels and wrist bracelets. Anita claims that the other Koopa kids have more identity than Wendy because she is covered in superficial gender signifiers… but I don’t think this is the case at all. Anita then describes Wendy as a spoiled brat. Now I know that’s not the best representation of the only female koopaling, I just don’t think Anita’s right in saying that she “lacks character” because of all the “female trates” she possesses, then go back saying she’s the spoiled one.

I do agree with her “Smurfette Principle” or “Token female” argument.

If I’m missing the point of this video, I’m totally up to hearing what others have to say about it. Or anything I’ve said.

[Drunky_Smurf]

@Guinastasia

I would call you retarded. But I’m not in the diagnosing business.

You’re not a doctor? Wow, I thought your name was a mix of gynecology and anesthesia. Well, ignorance fought.

@MyFootsZZZ

That’s pretty offensive. Not to me, but retarded people.

I agree. Guin, you should apologize to all the retarded people that read and post to the board.

[andros]

Naw, Gynaesthesia was banned like ten years ago.

[Frylock]

@MyFootsZZZ

If I’m missing the point of this video, I’m totally up to hearing what others have to say about it. Or anything I’ve said.

Sorry not to saymuch, I just want to register that I’m glad you went back and gave it another listen, taking on board things that have been said here. You still think there are some problems with some of the arguments she made, but you seem to also be inclined more positively to her overall project than you were before. This is all to the good IMO, and though I could argue against some of your arguments against some of her arguments, I don’t think that’s really to the point right now. Mostly, I just want to say I appreciate your efforts in the re-listen.

[Frylock]

@YogSosoth

I wouldn’t use the word “wrong”, just harmful. And I’m fine with harmful if people are honest about it; the creators to the public, or gamers with themselves. Hell, I own the game, I like the sexuality, I love when she gets naked, and I’ve Googled the pictures. That doesn’t mean I don’t realize its harmful. I’ll speak out for change but in the meantime, I’ll partake. Maybe that makes me a hypocrit, I don’t know. I consume a lot of harmful things but I don’t try to fool myself about it

Very well put. (Except the part where you misspelled hypocrite but there’s no need to get hung up on such details.)

[MyFootsZZZ]

@Frylock

Sorry not to saymuch, I just want to register that I’m glad you went back and gave it another listen, taking on board things that have been said here. You still think there are some problems with some of the arguments she made, but you seem to also be inclined more positively to her overall project than you were before. This is all to the good IMO, and though I could argue against some of your arguments against some of her arguments, I don’t think that’s really to the point right now. Mostly, I just want to say I appreciate your efforts in the re-listen.

Yes. I was very hasty in my OP.

I thought that if no one addressed me specifically in this thread, I could disappear, which was tempting. To be honest, I may have been influenced by the Anti-Sarkeesian crowd to start having a beef with how she was handling her videos.

Watching them again has helped me see and think about some of the things she was actually saying.

So, honestly, thanks to everyone who showed support to her, (without ripping me a new one), which made me re-examine the videos. I only put this in the pit because of all the strong opinions, but I REALLY take what other people say, (whether it’s about Anita or myself), to heart. Calling me a “retard” does nothing to affect my opinions about Anita or my posts… but calling me out on my OP, and speaking highly of Sarkeesian’s videos, makes me re-examine my original position.

I’m wrong a lot. I do try to keep an open mind because I admit to being wrong often.

I really want people to know that I WANT to be a good person. I do think I’m a feminist, but I have a lot to learn. There are a lot of words and phrases Sarkeesian used that I wasn’t familiar with and had to look up. The first viewing, I didn’t bother which may have contributed to my lack of understanding.

[andros]

Fuck’s sake.

Alright. Bring it in here for a hug, big guy.

.

[MyFootsZZZ]

@andros

Fuck’s sake.

Alright. Bring it in here for a hug, big guy.

.

((HUG))

[Jragon]

@YogSosoth

I wouldn’t use the word “wrong”, just harmful. And I’m fine with harmful if people are honest about it; the creators to the public, or gamers with themselves.

Are insinuating that we’re being dishonest with ourselves rather than simply disagreeing?

The thing with Bayonetta is, does she really titillate? Other than the (admittedly pretty inexcusable) opening cutscene and the dance sequence at the end, it’s basically 100% ridiculous. This may just be a personal thing, but Bayonetta is “sexy” is a very clinical sense, in that she checks all the little checkboxes for a sexy character. When you consider what they do with it (again, outside of maybe a couple legitimately bad instance in the course of the whole game) It’s more of a parody of sexiness and titillation.

I don’t think that was necessarily the point, but analyzing Bayonetta as a text, rather than as a product, I think it works pretty well from a sex-positive perspective. It works in a way that I don’t think, say, the music videos for Bang! Bang! or Anaconda work. And I bring up both of those because those also had people defending them as feminist sex-positive works. I think Bayonetta succeeds where those two fail from that perspective, but I can also see where you and others think Bayonetta ultimately fails.

I will grant that everything surrounding Bayonetta – the fan art, the marketing, and possibly even the development is almost universally harmful, but as a text in and of itself I think it has a lot of value.

[Strassia]

@MyFootsZZZ

I watched the 3rd instalment of ‘damsel in distress’ today. Not because I had to, (honestly, it would be easier for me to have this thread go away forever, and act as if I never posted anything about Anita), I really wanted to see it though.

So, I did have some issues with this instalment, however, I’m definitely starting to side with Anita more. I do think she’s hung up on trivial things, ON OCCATION, looking for sexism in just about any game she talks about. She DID mention a game in which she seems to approve of: ‘Beyond Good and Evil’, which IS a damn good game.

My biggest problem with this video is where she talks about a game I’ve never heard of called ‘Spelunky’. It’s an indie game that possesses the ‘damsel in distress’ trope. The game was later re-mastered in HD and with the option to save a man or a dog along with the ‘damsel’.

“Setting aside the fact that, if a female character is easily interchangeable with a dog then it’s probably a pretty good indication that something’s wrong.”

I KNOW what she’s saying, but it seems awfully nit-picky, since in this case, the female character is interchangeable with a man, who’s also interchangeable with a dog. I understand that in the original, it was just a female that you had to save, and putting a dog in her place means that her role wasn’t significant to begin with. However here’s a man you have to rescue too…

She also mentions that the HD version of the game has “boob jiggle”, (when the female breasts move when she moves,) I don’t know how I feel about that because it’s definitely not unheard of for a busty woman’s chest to naturally move if she’s, say, running. Her hair moves as well in the videos I’ve seen. Though I would like to know why it seems that almost all women in videogames are well endowed. Then again, Mario’s an exception when it comes to a male’s typical body image when it comes to games. Most male characters possess big muscles and are tall.

I also started watching “Ms. Male Character”. Though I’m not finished with it, I’m left scratching my head. Ms Pac-Man apparently started a trend, which is pink bows. There are a lot of pink bows out there to differentiate the female characters and male characters. Not just bows, but make-up and clothing that’s typically worn by females. I don’t understand the problem. She says that they are female versions of an already established or default male character… but some of the games she covers, (‘Ice Climber’ for instance), the female and male characters are both present from the start of the game.

Maybe I’m missing something. She mentions that it ‘tends to reinforce a strict binary form of gender expression.’ She goes on to say; ‘The gender binary is an entirely artificial and socially constructed division of male and female into two distinctly separate and opposing classes of human being.’

It’s too bad she didn’t bring up that Birdo in SMB 2 USA, who wears a pink bow, is, (according to the instruction book), a male character. And what about Samus? We don’t even have enough information about the character until we, (the player), discovers that they’ve been playing a female all along.

She also talks about “The Koopa Kids” from the Mario series, (they made their first appearance in Super Mario Bros. 3). The one girl, Wendy has a pink bow, lipstick, a necklace, high heels and wrist bracelets. Anita claims that the other Koopa kids have more identity than Wendy because she is covered in superficial gender signifiers… but I don’t think this is the case at all. Anita then describes Wendy as a spoiled brat. Now I know that’s not the best representation of the only female koopaling, I just don’t think Anita’s right in saying that she “lacks character” because of all the “female trates” she possesses, then go back saying she’s the spoiled one.

I do agree with her “Smurfette Principle” or “Token female” argument.

If I’m missing the point of this video, I’m totally up to hearing what others have to say about it. Or anything I’ve said.

The thing that many people seem to miss when this stuff comes of is the concept of the default. I don’t want to get sidetracked by the privilege discussion again, but I think it is easy to miss the point critics are making if you look at video games and see a ton of people who you can easily identify. Why should I care if one white dude with brown hair is portrayed badly in some game, when there are ton of other games that show white dudes with brown hair being totally awesome.

If Bayonette existed in a game exosystem filled with a wide variety of women, having one or two be hypersexual would not be an issue at all.

And for Spelunky, can you switch the gender of the hero? The whole issue with the damsel in distress is that by using it so much it makes women interchangeable with objects. Just letting you rescue a man instead isn’t really countering that.

[Jragon]

@Strassia

If Bayonette existed in a game exosystem filled with a wide variety of women, having one or two be hypersexual would not be an issue at all.

I do agree that Bayonetta is a problem from the standpoint of proportional representation. I maintain that she’s a good, somewhat progressive character, but it is absolutely bad and unfortunate that she (and similar sexualized protagonists, good or bad) proportionally speaks for far more of the “female video game protagonist” market than is healthy or excusable.

And for Spelunky, can you switch the gender of the hero? The whole issue with the damsel in distress is that by using it so much it makes women interchangeable with objects. Just letting you rescue a man instead isn’t really countering that.

AFAIK, there are both male and female hero characters, and the damsels can be a man, a woman, or a dog. The man is the default PC (and I think you have to unlock the woman?), and the woman is the default damsel though sooo…