# Ann Coulter v. Al Franken **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 11, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789 "2003-10-11T03:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/21 "2003-10-11T14:09:27Z")
Or, as the case may be, harp endlessly on a complete and utter lie, like the Earnhardt thing. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/22 "2003-10-11T16:05:49Z")
Ann Coulter reminds me of Emerson’s description of a house guest he had. “The more he talked of his honor, the faster we counted the spoons.” ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/23 "2003-10-11T16:26:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jay Belanger \* > \*\*This was, I think, particularly brilliant on Al Franken’s part. He criticizes Ann Coulter for using endnotes because it makes it easy to hide things. He goes on for several pages on how Ann Coulter hides misleading statements and poor research by using endnotes. Anyhow, Al Franken writes “Evan Thomas is the grandson of Norman Thomas.” Why did Ann Coulter not see this? Because Al Franken put this in and endnote. \*\* Is this right? If so, and if Ann’s reaction was calculated on Al’s part, this was indeed a tasty gotcha. She took the bait–hook, line and sinker. Whichever camp ya call home, ya can’t deny it, point made. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/24 "2003-10-11T16:39:26Z")
I haven’t seen too much of Franken when he’s trying to be a political analyst, but Coulter’s typical M.O. is to make some type of wild claim then dodge the questions to back it up with facts. I remember one interview with her that when something like this: Q: So, name one Democrat who has commited treason. Coulter: [Names someone who died 50 yrs ago] Q: No, no, no. Someone alive today. Coulter: Oh, there are so many I don’t know where to begin. Q: Name one. Coulter: I just said, there are so many. Q: Name just one. Coutler: Well I would if you’d stop talking and let me say something. [Interview ends] ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/25 "2003-10-11T17:55:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > **– Norm Thomas was Evan Thomas’ _grandfather_, not his father, which is indeed an error on Coulter’s part, but it’s even more dishonest of Franken to suggest there is no family connection.** Not true. Check the endnotes. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/26 "2003-10-11T17:59:41Z")
Wow: he really whooshed her, didn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/27 "2003-10-11T18:22:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*I haven’t seen too much of Franken when he’s trying to be a political analyst, but Coulter’s typical M.O. is to make some type of wild claim then dodge the questions to back it up with facts. I remember one interview with her that when something like this: > > Q: So, name one Democrat who has commited treason. > > Coulter: [Names someone who died 50 yrs ago] > > Q: No, no, no. Someone alive today. > > Coulter: Oh, there are so many I don’t know where to begin. > > Q: Name one. > > Coulter: I just said, there are so many. > > Q: Name just one. > > Coutler: Well I would if you’d stop talking and let me say something. > > [Interview ends] \*\* I remember that too - I think it was on Chris Matthew’s show. She did the same thing yesterday on Joe Scarborough’s show, talking about Rush Limbaugh’s drug addiction. When asked (3 times) if she thought Rush should go to jail, since she’s said all drug users belong in jail, she pulled the “let me talk!” stunt, and then (finally) said it was a “stupid” question, because it “didn’t apply to people she knew or admired” (duh!!!). Is she for real? I’m not bothered by partisan pundits who are able to respond coherently (even if I disagree), but I can’t understand her appeal to true conservatives. Isn’t she an embarrassment? Why do they tolerate her? ---
**Author:** ![Verminous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5e9695/32.png) [@Verminous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Verminous)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/28 "2003-10-11T19:18:26Z")
Her column still makes her look foolish in saying that liberals and liberals alone retort to childish insults, all the while she calls someone ‘head-injury boy’. ---
**Author:** ![Verminous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5e9695/32.png) [@Verminous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Verminous)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/29 "2003-10-11T19:19:42Z")
By the way, his ‘whoosing’ of Billy O’Reilly was even more humorous, considering he got Bill to publicly throw a temper tantrum. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/30 "2003-10-11T20:16:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*A better OP: Who’s more dishonest, Coulter or Michael Moore? \*\* Now _that_ would be a contest… I’ve often compared the two as being essentially opposite sides of the same coin. Though their views are polar opposites, their tactics are largely the same. I might say Moore is more _talented_ than Coulter, and so covers his lies a bit better than she does… but as to who is more dishonest between the two of them, I’d be hard-pressed to choose one definitively. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/31 "2003-10-11T22:10:45Z")
Give Michael Moore _some_ credit for restraint; AFAIK, he hasn’t accused the members of the Republican Party as “traitors.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/32 "2003-10-11T22:17:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Verminous \* > \*\*Her column still makes her look foolish in saying that liberals and liberals alone retort to childish insults, all the while she calls someone ‘head-injury boy’. \*\* Actually, I think you’ve been whooshed by Ann (I know that seems horrible, but what can you do?) “Head injury boy” is a reference to one of Franken’s SNL characters “Massive head wound Harry.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/33 "2003-10-11T22:28:34Z")
Posted by **Scylla:** > [@](#): > > “Head injury boy” is a reference to one of Franken’s SNL characters “Massive head wound Harry.” I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that Massive Headwound Harry was played by Dana Carvey, not Al Franken. Franken might have invented the character, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/34 "2003-10-11T22:30:20Z")
From Coulter’s response: > [@](#): > > FRANKEN’S VERY FIRST CHARGE AGAINST ME IS THAT I TOLD A REPORTER FROM THE OBSERVER THAT I WAS “FRIENDLY” WITH FRANKEN, WHEN IN FACT, WE ARE NOT “FRIENDLY.” > > Needless to say, I never claimed to be friendly with Al Franken. Inasmuch as I barely know Franken, a normal person might have looked at that and realized the reporter misunderstood me. But apparently Franken thinks he has a pretty cool name to drop – the oddest case of reverse name-dropping I’ve ever heard of. Franken’s source: > [@](#): > > In an August 26, 2003, _New York Observer_ article, Ann said she was “friendly with MSNBC commentator and _West Wing_ writer Lawrence O’Donnell and _Saturday Night Live_ political satirists Jim Downey and Al Franken.” And [here](http://www.observer.com/pages/story.asp?ID=6258) is the _Observer_ story: > [@](#): > > Before her book was published, Ms. Coulter had an idea to only run endorsements by her liberal enemies on the jacket flap, but her publisher said no. Instead, there are quotes from Rush Limbaugh, Bill Maher and Geraldo Rivera. Ms. Coulter said she’s also friendly with MSNBC commentator and _West Wing_ writer Lawrence O’Donnell and _Saturday Night Live_ political satirists Jim Downey and Al Franken. Ms. Coulter said she handed a copy of her book to _The New York Times’_ David Sanger, who looked it over, then replied: “You know, I’ve got to start e-mailing you my articles because there’s a lot more you could have attacked me for!” So who’s lying? Either Ann Coulter or the _Observer_, but not Franken. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/35 "2003-10-11T22:30:37Z")
I think you’re right. I remember clearly now it was Dana in the one where the dog was eating his brains, and it was a real dog and it got kind of carried away. Anyway, that was funny. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/36 "2003-10-11T22:34:10Z")
Whoops, that should be August 26, **2002**. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/37 "2003-10-12T01:47:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jay Belanger \* > \*\*This was, I think, particularly brilliant on Al Franken’s part. He criticizes Ann Coulter for using endnotes because it makes it easy to hide things. He goes on for several pages on how Ann Coulter hides misleading statements and poor research by using endnotes. Anyhow, Al Franken writes “Evan Thomas is the grandson of Norman Thomas.” Why did Ann Coulter not see this? Because Al Franken put this in and endnote. > > Jay \*\* If Franken did this, then it was very clever, and not at all intellectually dishonest, and I withdraw my critcism on that point. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/38 "2003-10-12T10:00:49Z")
This thread completely reaffirms my habit of avoiding all these loudmouths in general. I can’t listen to Rush more than 15 minutes without getting so annoyed that I switch programs, and I’m one of those people who will probably die without voting Democrat. He’s a blowhard who won’t try to see others’ points. I’m scared to even read Coulter’s stuff, from what I hear. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/39 "2003-10-12T12:38:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yookeroo \* > \*\*Not true. Check the endnotes. \*\* If you’ll read my post, you’ll see I was just reporting Coulter’s response to Franken’s book. I haven’t had a chance to read it yet (waiting to borrow it from a co-worker). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789/40 "2003-10-12T15:20:33Z")
Yeah, Franken uses only a single endnote in his book and he does it precisely to make a point about Coulter’s practice of hiding crucial information in endnote. I loaned my copy out so i don’t remember the exact wording but once you locate the endnote that explains that Evan Thomas is the _grandson_ of Norman Thomas, it’s followed by a quip about how hard it was to find the endnote. Coulter apparently got whooshed by her own pet tactic. Did anyone see the Hardball sketch on SNL last night. Rachel Dratch did a great job of parodying Ann Coulter as a shrill, childish nutjob (“Why don’t you have some taitor-aid, traitor?”) while the guy who plays Chris Matthews (I don’t remenber his name) got in some great shots at her (“I can smell your soul rotting from here.”) 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ann-coulter-v-al-franken/206789.md?page=3)