# Anne Rice harasses fan fiction writers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 27, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148 "2003-01-27T02:53:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mothchunks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mothchunks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mothchunks)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/21 "2003-01-28T01:12:07Z")
Fanfic that makes money is plagiarism, and they should be sued. Besides, a lot of fanfic takes beloved characters and has them doing pretty awful things. I saw one featuring a rendez-vous between Spock and Capt. Kirk that was particularly nauseating. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/22 "2003-01-28T01:24:50Z")
Any fanfic is plagiarism (or, rather, a copyright violation), whether it makes money or not. It doesn’t matter if it’s just for fun; it’s still against copyright law. Whether you agree with Rice’s position or not, _that is her right_. The fact that other people allow it is irrelevant. The fact that there’s no payment is irrelevant. The fact that you think you are honoring a favorite author is irrelevant. _It is her right to control her creation._ Personally, I think fan fiction is a waste of writing time. If you’re serious about writing, then create your own world instead of using the cheat of taking another. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/23 "2003-01-28T01:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mothchunks \* > \*\*I saw one featuring a rendez-vous between Spock and Capt. Kirk that was particularly nauseating. \*\* This is called “slash” fiction and there is so much of it that I know of an English professor who has made an entire study of it. As for Anne Rice, harrassment is illegal and immoral and deserves to be condemned in the strongest terms. But I have to note that the report on Writers U came from one fan site and describes anonymous acts by anonymous people against other anonymous people. I’d like some confirmation of this before we all jump on Anne Rice. You can say what you like about her fiction, of course… ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/24 "2003-01-28T01:59:33Z")
Anne Rice has nothing on Joss Whedon in regard to being fan fiction flood ‘victim’. If he takes it in stride, and in fact sometimes converse with the writers, then Anne should too. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/25 "2003-01-28T02:40:57Z")
capacitator, why? Authors are not clones of each other. Just because author A doesn’t mind fan fic or slash, doesn’t mean that author B should have to just deal. I don’t like or read fan fic. Slash turns my stomach. If a book I had worked on turned up on a fan’s website, it would disturb me. And why shouldn’t it? Just 'cause some other bugger has more fan fic to deal with than I do, doesn’t mean I’m not entitled to feel how I feel. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/26 "2003-01-28T03:00:03Z")
_Exapno Mapcase_ Sorry, somewhat belated comment: but your answer is at the crux of the problem. Hypothetical scenario: X writes best-selling fantasy fiction. Y writes fan fiction in which a man turns into a dragon. X (with or without knowledge of Y) writes a best-selling novel in which a man turns into a dragon. Y sues X for plagiarism. What is X supposed to do? a) if this happens? b) to prevent this happening? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/27 "2003-01-28T03:24:25Z")
I didn’t SAY she didn’t have the right. I said her attitude about it seems rather rude. That’s all. I like writing fan fiction. I like to read it. It’s fun. I like writing for FUN, and I like writing _Star Wars_ fan fiction, because there ARE a lot of original stories and characters there. Sometimes, it’s just for the sake of what if? And I for one, like SW pilot slash. But that’s just me. It’s just for shits and giggles, that’s all. Oh, and **Mothchunks** , no one was getting paid. Look, if an author doesn’t like fan fiction, that’s fine. HOWEVER, it is not fine to be an ass about it-massive threats and such. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/28 "2003-01-28T03:33:49Z")
The hypothetical scenario is about as likely as vampires getting suntans. You can’t copyright ideas. The fact that plots are similar are not grounds for an infringement suit.\* Y wouldn’t have a chance in hell of winning. Now I suppose Y could try to sue the pants of X, lose the suit and survive because of deeper pockets. However, the suit would be thrown out of court, so you wouldn’t need a high-priced lawyer to put an end to it. Y would have to be as psychotic as Ham Fisher\*\* to persue the suit. OTOH, if you used the characters, you’ve infringed, and you either do whatever the author wants or kiss your ass goodbye. That’s the law. \*Don’t you think the Tolkien estate would have gone after Terry Brooks if it were? \*\*The vain create of the Joe Palooka comic strip. When Al Capp spoke badly of him, Fisher doctored a bunch of “L’il Abner” strips to give them pornographic images and tried to get Capp jailed for indecency. Capp just showed the original strips and the everything was thrown out of court. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/29 "2003-01-28T04:04:46Z")
Hmmm. Makes me wonder if we should shut down that infamous If LOTR was written by somebody else thread. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/30 "2003-01-28T04:22:30Z")
_RealityChuck You can’t copyright ideas. The fact that plots are similar are not grounds for an infringement suit_ You’re wrong. They can be. There have been cases of infringement suits, some successful, based on similarity of plots and/or ‘concept’. Examples cited [here](http://law.indiana.edu/fclj/pubs/v46/no2/bob.html). A lengthy wrangle about copyright is probably off-topic, but see (for instance) [Copyright Hub](http://www.copyright-hub.com/copyright.html): “_If plot points are identical, or large recognizable sections from a script or story are copied, at some point, you’ve crossed the line. It becomes copyright infringement. Remember, you cannot copyright ideas. You can, however, copyright the expression of an idea - which even includes things like camera style_”. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/31 "2003-01-28T04:45:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by raygirvan \* > \*\*_Exapno Mapcase_ > > Sorry, somewhat belated comment: but your answer is at the crux of the problem. Hypothetical scenario: > > X writes best-selling fantasy fiction. > Y writes fan fiction in which a man turns into a dragon. > X (with or without knowledge of Y) writes a best-selling novel in which a man turns into a dragon. > Y sues X for plagiarism. > > What is X supposed to do? > a) if this happens? > b) to prevent this happening? \*\* b) is simple. Anybody can sue for anything. You can’t prevent it. Your a) is an absurdity. Fan fiction specifically and deliberately uses an author’s characters, worlds, backgrounds, notions, and atmosphere. That is the issue, and the only issue. If you’re trying to suggest that authors enter into fan fiction battles frivolously or against people who are not knowingly using their intellectual property, you simply don’t know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/32 "2003-01-28T05:15:16Z")
I would feel honored that someone would expand on a world I created, especially if that person is motivated by my ideas I put into it and for and not about money. I don’t think George Lucas is losing sleep over Star Wars ff, since the universe he created was open-ended. I would understand the author’s zealotry of a certain development of a character or plot being abused in ff, especially if it was meticulously established by the original author. If people write slash for characters that I originally defined them as straight, and developed situations where it came into play, well, that might be a problem. Probably I would Simon Cowell them, as oppose to sue them. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/33 "2003-01-28T05:29:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Anne Rice has nothing on Joss Whedon in regard to being fan fiction flood ‘victim’. If he takes it in stride, and in fact sometimes converse with the writers, then Anne should too. Really. Some of the things I’ve done…er…some of the things other people have done to his carefully crafted characters are just criminal…😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/34 "2003-01-28T06:02:48Z")
I was thinking of doing some _ER_ fan fiction, and trying to write a Carter/Luka fic (PG rated, probably), but I really don’t have the time. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/35 "2003-01-28T06:52:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Primaflora \* > \*\* If a book I had worked on turned up on a fan’s website, it would disturb me. \*\* But that’s not quite the same thing as setting something in the same universe as the original story. ---
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/36 "2003-01-28T06:58:15Z")
Whatever an author’s view of fanfiction, it’s not going to stop the fanfic writers. Too many are obscure and can use private settings for their diaries or journals. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/37 "2003-01-28T07:09:53Z")
HPL ummmmm what you wrote is what I meant. Someone pinching a universe that belonged to Mr P that we had worked on together would upset me. I don’t want to see a universe which we have created used by someone else. I wouldn’t feel honoured. Given that they are kids books, I’d be very distressed if someone did slash fic. It’s not likely to happen to us but i know if I encountered something set in one of Mr P’s worlds, it would not be a happy thing for him or me. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148/38 "2003-01-28T12:41:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mothchunks \* > \*\*I saw one featuring a rendez-vous between Spock and Capt. Kirk that was particularly nauseating. \*\* _One_? There must be tens of thousands of Kirk/Spock stories by now; people have been doing that pairing since the late '60’s. Started the whole slash thing, as far as I know. There’s always been the copyright issue about fanfic, but I think as long as it was underground, it wasn’t a big problem. The internet made the whole thing more visible: there are thousands of newsgroups, listservs, boards, etc, and it seems like every fanfic writer has their own website. Yes, authors and publishers are well within their rights to ask fanfic writers to cease, but I don’t think that would actually stop the writing as much as it would stop its visibility. I suspect it would go back underground. I’d take my Web site down if asked to (I’d have to, wouldn’t I?), but I’d still write my stories in notebooks, just as I did before I got online. I’ve been writing fanfic for about 6 years now, mostly DS9, and most of that Garak/Bashir slash. I must have done at least 50 stories in that genre by now. And I just started writing LOTR fic since the holidays (just 2 stories there so far). I do write my own fantasy novels as well–2 and an unfinished third, all set in the same modern-medieval universe, none published yet. I’ve also written slashy short stories based off my own characters, so I don’t see why I’d resent other people doing it as long as they weren’t making money. I think I’d find it flattering–it’d tell me that I’d really “arrived” as an author. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anne-rice-harasses-fan-fiction-writers/151148.md?page=1)