# Annie Proulx: Sore Loser, Stupid Bitch **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 16, 2006, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550 "2006-03-16T01:37:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/41 "2006-03-16T15:25:58Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > So you say now. I take it as backtracking in the absence of smilies such as, for instance, this one. šŸ˜‰ > > Which in the continued absence of a ā€˜read posterā€™s mindā€™ plug-in for Firefox can be used to signify you are joking. Well, Iā€™ll try to be more emoticonive. I still think no matter how much a body reviles any one writer, itā€™s a good idea to suspend judment until you know more about 'em. Unless theyā€™re bad mouthing James Joyce, in which case itā€™s OK to give them the hell they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/42 "2006-03-16T15:26:02Z")
> [@](#): > > She decries the ā€œatmosphere of insufferable self-importanceā€ inside the Kodak Theatre, the Oscars site, and describes the audience as a ā€œsomewhat dim LA crowd.ā€ The show, she writes, was ā€œreminiscent of a small-town talent-show night.ā€ I completely agree with this part though. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/43 "2006-03-16T15:33:17Z")
> [@Walter Windchill](#): > > Unless theyā€™re bad mouthing James Joyce, in which case itā€™s OK to give them the hell they deserve. On that we can all agree. Leran to spell and punctuate you drunken Irish git. šŸ˜‰ If you choose to rely on mind-reading over emoticons youā€™re inevitably going to be judged on your words. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/44 "2006-03-16T15:34:40Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > On that we can all agree. **Leran** to spell and punctuate you drunken Irish git. šŸ˜‰ > > If you choose to rely on mind-reading over emoticons youā€™re inevitably going to be judged on your words. Petard. Hoist. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/45 "2006-03-16T15:45:54Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] > [@don't ask](#): > > I read a book of his western short stories and felt like giving up writing. Which probably show that you know what you are doing. I think Proulx works best in her expression of character through expostion. Have a flick through _Wyoming Stories_ and see how she makes people seem familiar just by the things they own, have in their cars or homes, or what they wear. George V. Higgins was the first of the Boston lawyer novelists and his books are, in my opinion, the best examples of everyday dialogue ever written. To be honest I am surprised that he is not held up as an exemplar in every writing course on earth. He also wrote one of the best books ever about the craft of writing - _On Writing_ in which _inter alia_ he says ā€œStupid people do not write good fiction. Arrogant, smart people write good fiction.ā€ Read it to find out why. It contains Gay Taleseā€™s piece _The Silent Season of a Hero_ about Joe DiMaggio and it will cause you to stop writing too. And check out [Bob Bakerā€™s Newsthinking](http://www.newsthinking.com/) where a top notch journalist explains how to make stories work. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/46 "2006-03-16T15:53:52Z")
[QUOTE=donā€™t ask] > [@tagos](#): > > Which probably show that you know what you are doing. I think Proulx works best in her expression of character through expostion. Have a flick through _Wyoming Stories_ and see how she makes people seem familiar just by the things they own, have in their cars or homes, or what they wear. > > George V. Higgins was the first of the Boston lawyer novelists and his books are, in my opinion, the best examples of everyday dialogue ever written. To be honest I am surprised that he is not held up as an exemplar in every writing course on earth. He also wrote one of the best books ever about the craft of writing - _On Writing_ in which _inter alia_ he says ā€œStupid people do not write good fiction. Arrogant, smart people write good fiction.ā€ Read it to find out why. It contains Gay Taleseā€™s piece _The Silent Season of a Hero_ about Joe DiMaggio and it will cause you to stop writing too. > > And check out [Bob Bakerā€™s Newsthinking](http://www.newsthinking.com/) where a top notch journalist explains how to make stories work. Thanks for the tip. Itā€™ll be winging its way to me in 4-6 weeks via Amazon. Iā€™m a sucker for books on the craft, which is why Iā€™m a much better writer than the bright young things in my seminar group. (That and Iā€™m an arrogant smart-arse.) They positively bristle at the suggestion that they can learn anything about writing - to them its all art and no craft. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/47 "2006-03-16T15:56:57Z")
> [@](#): > > ā€œRumour has it that Lionsgate inundated the academy voters with DVD copies of Trash ā€“ excuse me ā€“ Crash a few weeks before the ballot deadline,ā€ Proulx writes. > > She decries the ā€œatmosphere of insufferable self-importanceā€ā€¦ Sheā€™s a fermentable talent alright. I liked her better before all this sour grapes crap. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/48 "2006-03-16T16:01:39Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Sheā€™s a fermentable talent alright. I liked her better before all this sour grapes crap. Sadly good writers often seem to come up short in the ā€˜fine human beingā€™ category and this sour grapes crap does her no service. I havenā€™t seen Crash but Gay Cowboys didnā€™t particularly grab me so I can easily believe Crash was a better movie. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/49 "2006-03-16T16:08:24Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > The short story was published in 1997. The South Park episode first aired in 1998. > > ā€œOh My God - they plaigarised Annie.ā€ šŸ˜› But the pudding-eating stuff was all their own, baby! Count me in with those who tried, \*really \* tried, to read _The Shipping News_ but gave up on those whiny, self-pitying loser characters (and what I now know is their whiny, self-pitying loser author) halfway through. Shit, it was even less tolerable than any of Anne Tylerā€™s whiny-loser-characters crap. Iā€™ve only given up on 2 or 3 other books _ever_. Iā€™m relieved Iā€™m not alone. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/50 "2006-03-16T16:19:13Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Gay Cowboys didnā€™t particularly grab meā€¦ If you wanted to be grabbed by gay cowboys, thereā€™s a bar in Nashville I can recommend you. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/51 "2006-03-16T16:19:52Z")
I was disappointed in Proulx when I saw her diatribe - I think she was too sucked in by all the press the movie got and expected it to win like everyone else. Thing is, the academy got this one right - \*Crash \*is a much better movie than _Brokeback_. I saw \*Brokeback \*Monday night, and was rather disappointed. Sure, itā€™s an okay movie, but itā€™s rather slow. Boring in some parts. SpouseO remarked to me that if it wasnā€™t for the gay angle, the movie never would have been nominated for anything (perhaps would have gone completely unnoticed), which I canā€™t disagree with. She put too much stock into all the hype, and now itā€™s bitten her in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/52 "2006-03-16T16:19:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But the pudding-eating stuff was all their own, baby! > > Count me in with those who tried, \*really \* tried, to read _The Shipping News_ but gave up on those whiny, self-pitying loser characters (and what I now know is their whiny, self-pitying loser author) halfway through. Shit, it was even less tolerable than any of Anne Tylerā€™s whiny-loser-characters crap. Iā€™ve only given up on 2 or 3 other books _ever_. Iā€™m relieved Iā€™m not alone. But they werenā€™t ā€˜losersā€™. The central character was a ā€˜heroā€™ because he rose above his limitations to achieve thngs he never thought he could. I find this whole USA ā€˜loserā€™ stuff crap anyway. I prefer to have compassion for people who arenā€™t cutting it in life through no fault of their own and this guy strives, takes big chances and wrests some happiness from the wreck of his life by his own efforts. I wouldnā€™t have read the book through choice though but Iā€™m glad I did. Nothing wrong with not liking something and putting it down. I fucking hated ā€˜Enduring Loveā€™ by Ian McEwan precisely because the non-loser character made no bloody effort to solve his problems until the end. He wasnā€™t functioning at full capacity like a ā€˜heroā€™ should. The SN guy was, even if that capacity was limited. Iā€™d have put it down if it wasnā€™t a course book. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/53 "2006-03-16T16:23:04Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > I was disappointed in Proulx when I saw her diatribe - I think she was too sucked in by all the press the movie got and expected it to win like everyone else. Thing is, the academy got this one right - \*Crash \*is a much better movie than _Brokeback_. I saw \*Brokeback \*Monday night, and was rather disappointed. Sure, itā€™s an okay movie, but itā€™s rather slow. Boring in some parts. SpouseO remarked to me that if it wasnā€™t for the gay angle, the movie never would have been nominated for anything (perhaps would have gone completely unnoticed), which I canā€™t disagree with. > > She put too much stock into all the hype, and now itā€™s bitten her in the ass. Sounds about right. Sheā€™s got a Pulitzer and thatā€™s worth a whole lot more than an Oscar to a writer in my eyes. Put me down in the ā€˜watch me not caringā€™ camp over BBM. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/54 "2006-03-16T16:24:29Z")
> [@Walter Windchill](#): > > If you wanted to be grabbed by gay cowboys, thereā€™s a bar in Nashville I can recommend you. A little bit far but thanks for thinking of me. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/55 "2006-03-16T16:37:06Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > But they werenā€™t ā€˜losersā€™. The central character was a ā€˜heroā€™ because he rose above his limitations to achieve thngs he never thought he could. Sounds like the limitations were self-imposed, and he rose up to ā€œalmost normalā€ after I gave up on him. Lifeā€™s still too short to read that crap. > [@](#): > > I prefer to have compassion for people who arenā€™t cutting it in life through no fault of their own and this guy strives, takes big chances and wrests some happiness from the wreck of his life by his own efforts. The fault, dear Brutus, was not in Quoyleā€™s stars but in himself. His life was a wreck because of the ā€œwhiny, self-pityingā€ part of his characterization in my post - you overlook that while responding only to ā€œloserā€. But if you really want to know the feeling of wishing you could step inside a book just to smack a protagonist upside the head and tell him to snap out of it, pick anything by Tyler, not Proulx. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/56 "2006-03-16T16:40:23Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > I saw Brokeback Monday night, and was rather disappointed. Sure, itā€™s an okay movie, but itā€™s rather slow. Boring in some parts. SpouseO remarked to me that if it wasnā€™t for the gay angle, the movie never would have been nominated for anything (perhaps would have gone completely unnoticed), which I canā€™t disagree with. 4 female neighbors of mine have said the same thing. Iā€™ve not seen it yet since Iā€™m not big on sad romance movies no matter the orientation so aside from the scenery Iā€™m afraid Iā€™d be rather bored. > [@tagos](#): > > I havenā€™t seen Crash but Gay Cowboys didnā€™t particularly grab me so I can easily believe Crash was a better movie. I liked Crash okay, it was somewhat thought provoking and Annieā€™s trashing of it is I believe beneath her. Heh, the cowboys I know, and there are a few, remind me that the characters are ranch hands or sheep herders but not cowboys. To some the distinction is important but to be fair this is a historical rivalry. **Tagos** , I really enjoyed your discussion with others about SN. Iā€™ll certainly give it a look see. Annieā€™s comments, while ill-advised, havent turned me off her as a writer. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/57 "2006-03-16T16:58:08Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Sounds like the limitations were self-imposed, and he rose up to ā€œalmost normalā€ after I gave up on him. Lifeā€™s still too short to read that crap. > > The fault, dear Brutus, was not in Quoyleā€™s stars but in himself. His life was a wreck because of the ā€œwhiny, self-pityingā€ part of his characterization in my post - you overlook that while responding only to ā€œloserā€. > > But if you really want to know the feeling of wishing you could step inside a book just to smack a protagonist upside the head and tell him to snap out of it, pick anything by Tyler, not Proulx. no - some people just are limited. You canā€™t expect everyone to be high IQ over achievers and itā€™s callous to blame people for what they cannot help. All you can ask of people is that they do their best. Which he does, overcoming the odds. Judge not lest ye be judged etc. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/58 "2006-03-16T16:58:55Z")
_Pulp Fiction_ was better than _Forrest Gump_. _2001: A Space Oddessy_ was better than _Oliver_, and _Brokeback Mountain_, _Good Night, and Good Luck_, and _Capote_ were all better than _Crash_. Shit happens, Annie, especially at Oscar time. Now shut your fucking cry-hole and get back to work. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/59 "2006-03-16T17:07:04Z")
If the book prompts a discussion like this one, itā€™s got something going for it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550/60 "2006-03-16T18:59:50Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Sounds about right. Sheā€™s got a Pulitzer and thatā€™s worth a whole lot more than an Oscar to a writer in my eyes. John F. Kennedy was given a Pulitzer Prize for a book he didnā€™t write. Industry awards are all pretty meaningless outside of their own industry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-proulx-sore-loser-stupid-bitch/348550.md?page=4)