# Annie-Xmas, I can think of a word that fits **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000 "2017-07-11T14:50:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/201 "2017-07-12T19:07:46Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > SUCH an uppity woman. So only a woman can “run your mouth”? Wow. How very sexist of you. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/202 "2017-07-12T19:31:06Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Probably not, because one couple will have pissed people off, and pissed off people insult others. Good - you are getting it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/203 "2017-07-12T19:43:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Good - you are getting it. > > Regards, > Shodan Getting what? No one here is going to say that every black person is at equal risk of being called a nigger. But the fact is, every black person is at risk of being called a nigger, and that risk is not insignificant. There are plenty of non-blacks who are willing to oblige without being pissed off in the least. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/204 "2017-07-12T19:52:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Getting what? No one here is going to say that every black person is at equal risk of being called a nigger. But the fact is, every black person is at risk of being called a nigger, and that risk is not insignificant. There are plenty of non-blacks who are willing to oblige without being pissed off in the least. Indeed. Some people are more likely to draw people’s ire, but their actions do not have to fit a stereotype to draw the ire, and they don’t have to be doing anything wrong at all. I would think Republicans of all people would like to avoid arguing that all insults are deserved. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/205 "2017-07-12T19:54:54Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > So only a woman can “run your mouth”? > > Wow. How very sexist of you. You know how in sitcoms someone can get a blow to the head and get amnesia which is later cured by another blow to the head? Stupidity can’t be cured that way, so you can stop hitting yourself. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/206 "2017-07-12T20:01:30Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Because that’s how racism and bigotry work. And you’re a fucking fool if you think people earn racial slurs. I think that’s the key issue right there, your choice of the word “earn”. “Earn” implies all sorts of other things, like “Deserve”. In my original example, the second couple took actions that increased their likelihood of being referred to as “nigger”. Does that mean they “deserved” it? Does that mean they “earned” it? Well, I don’t think so. But I certainly don’t see how acknowledging a fairly obvious (if not very interesting) aspect of how bigotry and prejudice works makes me a “fucking tool”. > [@John Mace](#): > > As for your Jewish friend, would you come onto this MB and say you consider him to be a Kike although you don’t actually call him that? Because that’s what our Annie did. Well, I wouldn’t. But a slightly less mature or more trollish version of me might, and the question is whether that-version-of-me coming on the MB and describing said person as a “kike”, in that very contrived hypothetical, would be evidence that I was anti-semitic. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/207 "2017-07-12T20:01:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Getting what? Getting the fact that it is not true that all you need to do to get called a nigger is to be black. Both couples in the hypothetical are equally black. Your theory must be wrong - it doesn’t explain the variance. There is a factor, other than merely being black, that affects the outcome of being called nigger. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/208 "2017-07-12T20:06:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Getting the fact that it is not true that all you need to do to get called a nigger is to be black. Both couples in the hypothetical are equally black. > > Your theory must be wrong - it doesn’t explain the variance. There is a factor, other than merely being black, that affects the outcome of being called nigger. And that factor would simply be how much the person hates the black person in question, since _nigger_ is still an insult. But that doesn’t require any fucking stereotype. You disagree? Then offer some other possible reason, instead of all this silly dancing around the subject. We’ve repeatedly asked what the “nigger” stereotype is, and no one has given an actual answer. If you know there is one, then it’s one you can tell us about. Otherwise you’re just blowing smoke. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/209 "2017-07-12T20:06:20Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Some people are more likely to draw people’s ire, but their actions do not have to fit a stereotype to draw the ire, and they don’t have to be doing anything wrong at all. > > I would think Republicans of all people would like to avoid arguing that all insults are deserved. Nobody in this thread has argued that all insults are deserved. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/210 "2017-07-12T20:08:22Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I think that’s the key issue right there, your choice of the word “earn”. “Earn” implies all sorts of other things, like “Deserve”. > > In my original example, the second couple took actions that increased their likelihood of being referred to as “nigger”. Does that mean they “deserved” it? Does that mean they “earned” it? Well, I don’t think so. But I certainly don’t see how acknowledging a fairly obvious (if not very interesting) aspect of how bigotry and prejudice works makes me a “fucking tool”. If you say that someone only gets called a nigger if they behave poorly, what are you saying about the term? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/211 "2017-07-12T20:08:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Getting the fact that it is not true that all you need to do to get called a nigger is to be black. Both couples in the hypothetical are equally black. > > Your theory must be wrong - it doesn’t explain the variance. There is a factor, other than merely being black, that affects the outcome of being called nigger. > > Regards, > Shodan Oy. If you are black, you almost certainly will be called a nigger. If you are black, and piss off people, you increase your odds. But you didn’t start out with zero odds, so even if you didn’t piss people off, you’d still be called a nigger, at times. My theory is fine. There is no need to explain the variance, just the non-zero nature of the occurrence. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/212 "2017-07-12T20:10:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Your theory must be wrong - it doesn’t explain the variance. There is a factor, other than merely being black, that affects the outcome of being called nigger. That’s true. The factor is how motivated the racist individual is to utter the thought. There is not necessarily another factor concerning the _recipient_ of the slur, however. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/213 "2017-07-12T20:10:58Z")
To me, and I think to many others offended by the usage of racial slurs, using nigger to insult a black person or refer to them in a derogatory way, even if they’ve done something terrible, is a shorthand way of saying that all the things that were done to black people back when they were commonly called niggers by white people - all the rape, torture, slavery, lynching, etc. - all of that was okay. The slur doesn’t just mean bad black person - to me, and to many others, I think - it means worthless member of a worthless race; vermin and livestock that can be abused with no limit or compunction. Because in our history, that’s most commonly how the word was used. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/214 "2017-07-12T20:12:51Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > If you say that someone only gets called a nigger if they behave poorly, what are you saying about the term? I said literally the exact opposite of that. “ **Because while the probably is not zero for the first couple** , I’m quite sure that it’s vastly higher for the second couple” ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/215 "2017-07-12T20:13:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oy. If you are black, you almost certainly will be called a nigger. If you are black, and piss off people, you increase your odds. But you didn’t start out with zero odds, so even if you didn’t piss people off, you’d still be called a nigger, at times. > > My theory is fine. There is no need to explain the variance, just the non-zero nature of the occurrence. Exhibit A: President Obama. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/216 "2017-07-12T20:19:42Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You disagree? Then offer some other possible reason, instead of all this silly dancing around the subject. We’ve repeatedly asked what the “nigger” stereotype is, and no one has given an actual answer. I’m starting to feel unclean for being actually willing to acknowledge that a stereotype exists, as if doing so means that I actually subscribe to said stereotype, but go back and read my post #175. There’s a reason I chose the specific traits for the first couple, as opposed to being, I dunno, very poor drivers. Honestly, it should not be either offensive or controversial to say that: (1) “Nigger” has a long history and an enormous weight behind it of just being a dehumanizing term for black people and ALSO, SIMULTANEOUSLY (2) In more modern times, there are a fairly specific set of negative stereotypes associated with black people, and “nigger”, while maintaining its original meaning and history, is also linked to that set of stereotypes. Again, Chris Rock may have denounced his own routine, for very good reason, but he never would have come up with it in the first place, and no one would have understood what the heck he was talking about, if what I’m saying were not true. (And what I’m saying is not that there is TRUTH to the stereotypes, but that the stereotypes “exist”, in the sense of being known.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/217 "2017-07-12T20:25:43Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Exhibit A: President Obama. Or, let’s put it this way: B -\> N B + P -\> N **Shodan** would have us believe that the second statement invalidates the first, leaving us with: B -\> ~N Clearly, not so. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/218 "2017-07-12T20:29:31Z")
If you’re of low intelligence you might be called stupid. But if you have high intelligence there’s a non-zero chance that you’ll be called stupid too. Therefore the word “stupid” does not mean low intelligence. QED, John Mace style. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/219 "2017-07-12T20:33:34Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Nobody in this thread has argued that all insults are deserved. Not only did I describe what you do, but other people actually started saying that I may be right, which almost never happens. But you still keep doing it. You know that’s not the meaning of what she said. You can’t just chop up parts of a post and ignore the rest. It is the first paragraph that argues the second paragraph. I also notice you didn’t try to argue that you actually mean anything you say. Because part of your game is to not technically lie. You even admitted you “don’t play defense.” It’s a game. You aren’t actually interested in the truth. You can’t say “I do not believe black people are inferior, but I do believe that there is a stereotype of what ‘nigger’ means, and it means \_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” Because you don’t have anything to fill in that blank. If you did, you could “win.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/220 "2017-07-12T20:36:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If you’re of low intelligence you might be called stupid. But if you have high intelligence there’s a non-zero chance that you’ll be called stupid too. Therefore the word “stupid” does not mean low intelligence. > > QED, John Mace style. Let’s try the non-stupid version of that: If your IQ is 75, you’ll almost certainly be called stupid. If your IQ is 75, and you act like an idiot on the internet, you are more likely to be called stupid. But having an IQ of 75 is enough to be called stupid, even if other things increase the frequency of being called that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000.md?page=12)