# Annie-Xmas, I can think of a word that fits **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000 "2017-07-11T14:50:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/361 "2017-07-14T16:03:58Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You’re just repeating an argument that has been made and refuted many times in this thread. I don’t think I’m getting back on that merry-go-round at this point. > > The specific question asked at this point in the thread is not whether this argument is correct or not, but rather what’s the relevance of the entire issue altogether. I addressed that question. Now you’re just retreating to a reiteration of why you’re correct about that underlying issue. OK. This is your merry-go-round, not mine. Of course a white person who thinks it’s appropriate to call any black person a n\*\*\*er thinks lower of black people in general. They believe those individuals are so underserving of respect that when they step into a stereotype that’s the word they choose to use use as an insult. That you can’t see that is mind boggling to me. I’m done. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/362 "2017-07-14T17:23:20Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > Simply that some people _do_ make a distinction and while the use of a racial slur may signal to you (the general "you’ in the context of this thread) certain things about the speaker, sometimes it’s just a descriptor. I’m not saying by any means that dragging one’s race into an argument or insult is right; just that’s it’s unfortunate, ugly but easy shorthand to some people. Sometimes “nigger” is just a descriptor? That’s your argument? I waited all of these posts for _that_? Jesus Fucking Christ on a Big Wheel. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/363 "2017-07-14T17:29:55Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Sometimes “nigger” is just a descriptor? That’s your argument? > > I waited all of these posts for _that_? Jesus Fucking Christ on a Big Wheel. To some people, yes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/364 "2017-07-14T17:32:37Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > …Nigger is a racial slur used _against black people_… This is not rocket science. That is really all there is to it. I’m not sure why some folks seem to have the need to put lipstick on that pig. The lipstick does nothing to change the essential pigness of the pig. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/365 "2017-07-14T17:37:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is not rocket science. That is really all there is to it. I’m not sure why some folks seem to have the need to put lipstick on that pig. The lipstick does nothing to change the essential pigness of the pig. I just think it’s pretty hilarious. No, no, it’s totally not racist, it’s just a descriptor! Of course, it’s wrong and ugly to do it, but that’s because… um… well, it’s just terrible! But it’s totally just a descriptor! That I would never use, of course. I’m not speaking for myself, obviously, but you really really really REALLY need to know that it’s using race to insult but only in a TOTALLY DESCRIPTIVE WAY! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/366 "2017-07-14T17:47:49Z")
Oh, and I forgot: You can’t say what’s in other people’s heads, so listen to me explain what’s in other people’s heads, since I totally wouldn’t use nigger though it’s just an innocent descriptor though very very wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/367 "2017-07-14T17:50:37Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I just think it’s pretty hilarious. No, no, it’s totally not racist, it’s just a descriptor! I’m not sure where you’re getting “it’s totally not racist”. Something can be extraordinarily racist (as “nigger” absolutely is), and oftentimes not be a descriptor (also certainly true of “nigger”), and yet also in some cases carry descriptive weight. And saying so in no way diminishes its extreme hateful racism. Not a perfect analogy, but consider the word “uppity”, when directed towards a black person. That’s an INCREDIBLY racist thing to say. I would never use that word, and if I heard anyone use it that would be an incredibly strong indicator that they were racist. That said, there is information conveyed by “uppity”, and the existence of that information doesn’t somehow make it OK to say “uppity”, or non-racist, or mean that the person using it isn’t bigotted the other black people not being referred to as “uppity”, or anything of that sort. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/368 "2017-07-14T18:05:06Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I just think it’s pretty hilarious. No, no, it’s totally not racist, it’s just a descriptor! Of course, it’s wrong and ugly to do it, but that’s because… um… well, it’s just terrible! But it’s totally just a descriptor! That I would never use, of course. I’m not speaking for myself, obviously, but you really really really REALLY need to know that it’s using race to insult but only in a TOTALLY DESCRIPTIVE WAY! I didn’t say it isn’t racist nor did I say it was “_totally_ _just_ a descriptor”. And I certainly didn’t say “you really REALLY need to know” _anything_, because I simply don’t care about your histrionics. As I’ve said before and often, I’m not bothered by being labelled a racist (especially by a bunch of anonymous people on the internet) or anything else here. I was just participating in a discussion, no big whoop. Feel free to continue to lose your mind over it, though :rolleyes: . ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/369 "2017-07-14T18:10:51Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > there is information conveyed by “uppity” Could you perhaps expand upon what information is conveyed by “uppity” other than the speaker is a racist moron? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/370 "2017-07-14T18:16:11Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Could you perhaps expand upon what information is conveyed by “uppity” other than the speaker is a racist moron? Do you seriously not know? Or are you just trying to make me seem racist by answering the question because if I answer the question I must know what “uppity” means therefore I probably use it or something? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/371 "2017-07-14T18:22:46Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > I didn’t say it isn’t racist nor did I say it was “_totally_ _just_ a descriptor”. And I certainly didn’t say “you really REALLY need to know” _anything_, because I simply don’t care about your histrionics. As I’ve said before and often, I’m not bothered by being labelled a racist (especially by a bunch of anonymous people on the internet) or anything else here. I was just participating in a discussion, no big whoop. Feel free to continue to lose your mind over it, though :rolleyes: . I agree that it’s unfair to say you didn’t say it was racist. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/372 "2017-07-14T18:25:02Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Do you seriously not know? Or are you just trying to make me seem racist by answering the question because if I answer the question I must know what “uppity” means therefore I probably use it or something? It’s a simple question. You said the word “uppity” conveys information. What information does it convey? If you don’t know what information it conveys, why would you say that it conveys information? I don’t think it conveys any information other than the speaker of that word is a racist moron. I’m curious about what additional information it may convey. You said it conveys some, so you would be the best person to ask. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/373 "2017-07-14T18:27:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I agree that it’s unfair to say you didn’t say it was racist. “It’s just a descriptor” sounds like someone saying it’s, well, you know, just a descriptor. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/374 "2017-07-14T18:28:47Z")
Those of you who honestly believe that there is a defined set of descriptive information conveyed by the word “nigger” need to take a good long look in the mirror. There isn’t. It’s word that means different things to different people, and all of them are bad. Why are you all even choosing this particular rhetorical hill to die on? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/375 "2017-07-14T18:32:32Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > It’s a simple question. You said the word “uppity” conveys information. What information does it convey? > > If you don’t know what information it conveys, why would you say that it conveys information? I don’t think it conveys any information other than the speaker of that word is a racist moron. I’m curious about what additional information it may convey. You said it conveys some, so you would be the best person to ask. I will respond, and I do know what information I think it conveys. But first, I repeat my question: Do you in fact literally have no idea, totally bafflement, as to what information it conveys? Is it just as meaningless to you as “gurflesnark”? Or are you trying to make some weird point or other? Because I can’t believe you literally have no idea what it might mean. So I think you must be trying to trap me in some web of deceit or something. As if, somehow, me knowing and acknowledging knowing what is meant by “uppity” means that I’m a big fan of using it, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/376 "2017-07-14T18:34:47Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Do you seriously not know? Or are you just trying to make me seem racist by answering the question because if I answer the question I must know what “uppity” means therefore I probably use it or something? It’s not as logic-based as that. It’s just that by delving into the nuances of racist terms like “uppity” you’re associating yourself with defense of that term, since your position is in contrast to the much more PC black-and-white position that all it conveys is that the speaker is a racist moron. So you’re on the defensive on that basis alone, and all the disclaimers with CAPITAL LETTERS won’t change that because “what’s wrong with you people?” and “is it really that difficult to just stop calling black people uppity?” It’s a very common dynamic on this board (& elsewhere) and the approach is very effective. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/377 "2017-07-14T18:35:37Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > “It’s just a descriptor” sounds like someone saying it’s, well, you know, just a descriptor. But in the same sentence he also called it a racial slur. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/378 "2017-07-14T18:41:40Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Those of you who honestly believe that there is a defined set of descriptive information conveyed by the word “nigger” need to take a good long look in the mirror. There isn’t. It’s word that means different things to different people, and all of them are bad. Why are you all even choosing this particular rhetorical hill to die on? Why are YOU choosing this particular rhetorical hill to, umm, kill me on? Look, here are our positions (correct me if I’m wrong): MaxTheVool believes: “nigger” is an incredibly hateful word with a long history of association with oppression, dehumanization and bigotry Sunny Daze believes: “nigger” is an incredibly hateful word with a long history of association with oppression, dehumanization and bigotry MaxTheVool believes: “nigger” is inexcusable when used to describe black people, and a near-certain sign of racism in the user, whatever information they did or did not intend to convey Sunny Daze believes: “nigger” is inexcusable when used to describe black people, and a near-certain sign of racism in the user, whatever information they did or did not intend to convey MaxTheVool believes: “nigger” is often used purely as a derogatory term for black people, with no information conveyed beyond “that person is black” Sunny Daze believes: “nigger” is ALWAYS used purely as a derogatory term for black people, with no information conveyed beyond “hat person is black” MaxTheVool believes: In certain contexts, particularly when contrasting between different black people, “nigger” can also mean something like “particularly matching known negative stereotypes associated with black people”, BUT IS STILL A HATEFUL AND AWFUL AND RACIST AND UNACCPETABLE THING TO SAY Sunny Daze believes: that is not true Does that sum up our disagreement? I mean, seems like a fairly minor and noncontroversial disagreement, either way you look at it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/379 "2017-07-14T18:43:11Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I will respond, and I do know what information I think it conveys. But first, I repeat my question: Do you in fact literally have no idea, totally bafflement, as to what information it conveys? Is it just as meaningless to you as “gurflesnark”? Or are you trying to make some weird point or other? Because I can’t believe you literally have no idea what it might mean. So I think you must be trying to trap me in some web of deceit or something. As if, somehow, me knowing and acknowledging knowing what is meant by “uppity” means that I’m a big fan of using it, or something. No, I have no idea what information it conveys about the recipient of the word. Only what information it conveys about the speaker. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/380 "2017-07-14T18:46:59Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > in contrast to the much more PC black-and-white position that all it conveys is that the speaker is a racist moron I have no idea why that would be the PC position. I’m sure there are super-left-wing professors of African-American studies who have written lengthy papers about the word “uppity” and how it came into use and how its shades of meaning have changed over the years, yada yada yada. The left wing campus thought police (note: I am using that term mostly ironically) wouldn’t get pissed off at that professor and insist that “uppity” was really just a slur with absolutely no meaning associated with it. I am somewhat puzzled by the reaction in this thread, but I don’t think it’s fair to call it “PC”. The PC position is “never ever ever say nigger”, which is also the “be a decent human being” position. I don’t think the PC position is “and never even have a discussion about hateful words and their origins and meanings and connotations”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000.md?page=20)