# Annie-Xmas, I can think of a word that fits **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000 "2017-07-11T14:50:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/81 "2017-07-11T21:42:17Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > This thread is a great example of my problem with the left wing. So we have one person who may have negative thoughts about a race. She has taken no action that I am aware of, she just has a thought that the masses disagree with. This is then of course followed by a fucking orgy of virtue signalling where everyone insists that they have never even thought such thoughts, never even once, all while gleefully calling Annie racist. > > When the right accuses your side of policing thought crimes, this is the exact shit they are talking about. Way to prove them right. And your post is a great example of the left wing’s problem with racists. Being a racist and being black are not equivalent. Because there’s nothing wrong with being black. But there is something wrong with being a racist. Being a racist is like being a child molester. It’s not something that deserves toleration. Racism, like child molesting, is something that should be hounded into non-existence. I don’t advocate the extermination of racists and child molesters but I fully support driving them to the point where they’re afraid to act on their beliefs. And that includes verbally expressing their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/82 "2017-07-11T21:45:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, I share Chris Rock’s opinion that there is, or can be, a difference between being a nigger and being a black person. > > And some of the point of the monologue is that it is not the case that “all you have to do to be called it is to be black”. Chris Rock is not calling all black people niggers. And I thought he made the distinction rather clear. > > Regards, > Shodan Besides not geting the joke, you’re mixing “nigger” with “nigga” Rock clearly uses the latter. [And:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggas_vs._Black_People) > [@](#): > > The controversy caused by Rock’s constant use of the word “nigga” led him to remove the piece from his act. In a 2005 60 Minutes interview, Rock said: “By the way, I’ve never done that joke again, ever, and I probably never will. 'Cos some people that were racist thought they had license to say nigger. So, I’m done with that routine.” Live by the rock die by the rock! mc ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/83 "2017-07-11T21:48:52Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Nice excluded middle. No one said you can’t have negative thoughts. It’s this particular thought, unapologetically imagined, buying into the worst racial stereotypes that are being called out. It’s still just a thought. I’ve met a few real racists, and they don’t stop at thoughts. Not by a long shot. By calling someone a racist because of just a thought, you are watering down the word to uselessness. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I can say without any hesitation that I have never used slurs in my head to think about someone. Not fag, homo, wetback, anything. You may want to believe we’re all making that up for some leftist agenda, but maybe we are leftist because we just rarely think that way. You’re right, I don’t believe you, or any of the rest of you claiming this. I _might_ grant that as an adult you may not use slurs, but I would bet pretty solid money that damn near everyone, including all of you, at some point in their life has had at least one racist thought. Added on Preview: - Andy, I’m not right wing either, nice try with the lazy smear job though. I have my issues with the right as well, but policing thought crime isn’t one of them. And I’m not going into specifics. The username is Crazy Canuck, not Stupid Masochistic Canuck. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/84 "2017-07-11T21:50:38Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > Added on Preview: - Andy, I’m not right wing either, nice try with the lazy smear job though. I have my issues with the right as well, but policing thought crime isn’t one of them. And I’m not going into specifics. The username is Crazy Canuck, not Stupid Masochistic Canuck. What smear? My entire point was that such generalizations are dumb and pointless. If you have a problem with certain posts, then address those posts – but your sweeping generalizations about the left wing are just vague and useless nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/85 "2017-07-11T21:52:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I asked “_How did the slur serve to dehumanize black people and emphasize their inferior status (other than by association with negative stereotypes)?_” and your response was, essentially, “it does because it does”. > That doesn’t follow. That’s like saying since intelligent people can get called stupid, it follows that the word “stupid” doesn’t imply a lack of intelligence. > > The entire premise of Rock’s monologue was that the term was associated with certain stereotypes of black people, which he suggested (at least for comedic effect) were true in some cases. It follows from this: “it is not the case that ‘all you have to do to be called it is to be black’”. Do you disagree with that? A black person doesn’t have to “act in a certain way” to risk being called a nigger. He might increase his chances with certain behaviors, but there is always a non-zero and non-trivial chance that he is going to be called that no matter what he does. Again, witness Obama as a perfect example. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/86 "2017-07-11T21:55:23Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > It’s still just a thought. I’ve met a few real racists, and they don’t stop at thoughts. Not by a long shot. By calling someone a racist because of just a thought, you are watering down the word to uselessness. > > You’re right, I don’t believe you, or any of the rest of you claiming this. I _might_ grant that as an adult you may not use slurs, but I would bet pretty solid money that damn near everyone, including all of you, at some point in their life has had at least one racist thought. > > Added on Preview: - Andy, I’m not right wing either, nice try with the lazy smear job though. I have my issues with the right as well, but policing thought crime isn’t one of them. And I’m not going into specifics. The username is Crazy Canuck, not Stupid Masochistic Canuck. Of course I’ve had racist thoughts. However, I’ve never used a mental racist slur in my life, not causally or deliberately. And Annie _is_ an adult, so stupid thoughts as immature kids aren’t even relevant here. Rascism is virtually impossible to avoid growing up in the USA, and it’s important to challenge our feelings when they creep up on it. But that’s a huge difference from “man, that guy is totally a nigger and my friends think so too”. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/87 "2017-07-11T21:59:36Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > This is the second time I’ve seen something surprising out of her lately. Is something going on? In my (admittedly biased) view, there has always been something going on with Annie X-mas. A lot of her posting history is unremarkable (I mean that in a _good_ way) but she can be oddly irascible occasionally, and she shares some startlingly unpleasant ideas from time to time, like “adoption turns people into serial killers.” (I’m adopted, hence my recoiling from anyone who needs to promote that statement.) [She was pitted for it here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=608241) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/88 "2017-07-11T22:05:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It follows from this: “it is not the case that ‘all you have to do to be called it is to be black’”. Do you disagree with that? A black person doesn’t have to “act in a certain way” to risk being called a nigger. He might increase his chances with certain behaviors, but there is always a non-zero and non-trivial chance that he is going to be called that no matter what he does. Again, witness Obama as a perfect example. I think the “not” in your first sentence may not have been intended (otherwise I don’t understand what you’re saying). What I’m saying is that anyone can call anyone anything. That doesn’t mean that no terms have any real meaning. The fact that any black person has a non-zero chance of being called a nigger has no bearing on whether the term has a more specific connotation. As previous, any person has a non-zero chance of being called stupid. But that doesn’t mean that stupid doesn’t really mean stupid. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/89 "2017-07-11T22:08:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I think the “not” in your first sentence may not have been intended (otherwise I don’t understand what you’re saying). > > What I’m saying is that anyone can call anyone anything. That doesn’t mean that no terms have any real meaning. The fact that any black person has a non-zero chance of being called a nigger has no bearing on whether the term has a more specific connotation. As previous, any person has a non-zero chance of being called stupid. But that doesn’t mean that stupid doesn’t really mean stupid. As far as I can tell, every dictionary entry (present and past) on “nigger” and other comprehensive sources (like Wikipedia) that I can find say that nigger is a derogatory slur for black people, with nothing about stereotypical behaviors. Do you have any evidence or cites that it’s actually a derogatory slur for black people who engage in certain stereotypical behaviors? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/90 "2017-07-11T22:08:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I think the “not” in your first sentence may not have been intended (otherwise I don’t understand what you’re saying). No. That was a direct quote from **Shodan’s** post He is stating that it is NOT the case that all you have to do to be called a nigger is to be black. That is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/91 "2017-07-11T22:09:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And your post is a great example of the left wing’s problem with racists. Are you sure you mean left there, or did you mean to mis-identify me politically as well? > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Being a racist is like being a child molester. It’s not something that deserves toleration. Racism, like child molesting, is something that should be hounded into non-existence. I don’t advocate the extermination of racists and child molesters but I fully support driving them to the point where they’re afraid to act on their beliefs. And that includes verbally expressing their beliefs. Well, at least you’re honest about being a virtual bully, and I can respect that much at least. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/92 "2017-07-11T22:10:33Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Besides not geting the joke, you’re mixing “nigger” with “nigga” Rock clearly uses the latter. I think that’s a distinction without a difference in the way he’s using it. He’s not using “nigga” in the sense of “fellow black brother” or whatever. He’s using it in the sense that we know “nigger” to be used. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/93 "2017-07-11T22:12:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No. That was a direct quote from **Shodan’s** post He is stating that it is NOT the case that all you have to do to be called a nigger is to be black. That is nonsense. Oh, OK. I suppose Shodan can speak for himself. But my point stands. Anyone can call anyone anything; this has no bearing on what the term connotes. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/94 "2017-07-11T22:15:32Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > [Relevant Louis CK](https://youtu.be/zuLrBLxbLxw?t=2m4s). I love Louie. Greatest stand up comedian of his generation. But his n-word shtick in that bit is just dumb, and solely done for comedic value. If a “white lady with nice hair” on CNN said the “f-word”, would that be an example of white people saying “fuck” and getting away with it? Of course not. In the US, it’s just the way things are done… they don’t use racial slurs and swear words on broadcast/basic cable television. I would prefer that they just say that it was a racial slur or curse word, instead of “blank-word”, but it’s a dumb bit. Louie should know better. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/95 "2017-07-11T22:15:34Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Oh, OK. I suppose Shodan can speak for himself. But my point stands. Anyone can call anyone anything; this has no bearing on what the term connotes. Emphasis added. If you want to claim that as a point, I guess you are free to do so. Yes, anyone can call anyone anything. Did you think there was some controversy associated with that statement? Note: That’s a rhetorical question. Please don’t attempt to answer it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/96 "2017-07-11T22:17:38Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > Well, at least you’re honest about being a virtual bully, and I can respect that much at least. Do you believe that all criticism of racist statements are bullying? If not, what makes any of the criticism in this thread bullying, and which posts qualify? ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/97 "2017-07-11T22:25:34Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I asked “_How did the slur serve to dehumanize black people and emphasize their inferior status (other than by association with negative stereotypes)?_” and your response was, essentially, “it does because it does”.\. Oh, I guess I did, didn’t I? I was so lost in the discussion between you and \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*that I made no contribution to either of your points. I should have stayed out of it 😛 Upon further parsing, it appears you guys are locked in a chicken-v-egg type of discussion. Sure, the minutia can be argued, but the reason (and malice with which) one is using that term can usually be gleaned from the context. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/98 "2017-07-11T22:27:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Emphasis added. If you want to claim that as a point, I guess you are free to do so. Yes, anyone can call anyone anything. Did you think there was some controversy associated with that statement? Note: That’s a rhetorical question. Please don’t attempt to answer it. I wouldn’t ordinarily think it’s necessary to “claim that as a point”. But I’m responding to a guy who is claiming as a point that “_He might increase his chances with certain behaviors, but there is always a non-zero and non-trivial chance that [a black person] is going to be called that no matter what he does._” In response to _that_, mine is a valid counterpoint. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/99 "2017-07-11T22:40:04Z")
A big part of the problem is that the word is often applied randomly to people who have not displayed any sterotypical attributes. Sort of a reverse on the presumption of innocence. You’re one of “those” until you demonstrate that you’re not, and even then you’re not above suspicion. And you don’t have to stop listening to Dr Dre, but you might wish to consider not singing along with him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/100 "2017-07-11T22:43:16Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I wouldn’t ordinarily think it’s necessary to “claim that as a point”. But I’m responding to a guy who is claiming as a point that “_He might increase his chances with certain behaviors, but there is always a non-zero and non-trivial chance that [a black person] is going to be called that no matter what he does._” In response to _that_, mine is a valid counterpoint. If you’d like me to dumb it down for you, I can. Just let me know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000.md?page=6)