# Annie-Xmas, I can think of a word that fits **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000 "2017-07-11T14:50:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/121 "2017-07-12T00:11:58Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > And they will continue to state that and even worse racist things in the dark places with other likeminded (racist) folk. This leads to everyone being surprised when a fucking tool like Trump ends up getting voted in as President, because they thought they lived in a different world than the real one. Racists will be racists with other racists. But by criticizing them, maybe they’ll be less likely to be racist with non-racists (and especially children). And if you’re arguing that there are more racists now than in the past, you’ll need more evidence than a single election. Polling shows the reverse. > [@](#): > > Virtue signaling isn’t exclusive to either the left or the right. What they signal over is different, but the signalling itself is pretty much the same. Per wikipedia, it’s merely “the conspicuous expression of moral values done primarily with the intent of enhancing standing within a social group.” Both sides of the political spectrum do this, so I’m not sure why you’re trying to paint me as a right winger for using that phrase. > > And again, I’m not playing the standard pedantic SDMB nitpicker game. This is a trend I’ve noticed on this board, it bothers me, I’ve made my argument and got it off my chest and now I think I’m done. So basically you’ve got nothing useful to say, just vague broad-brushing. Maybe I’m doing something bad – that’s why specific posts and criticism can be useful. But if you can’t point to some specific post that you think is wrong, whether due to virtue-signalling or some other sin, then you might as well be pissing into the wind for all the good you’re doing. If you want to help make other posters better, point out the posts you think are bad. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/122 "2017-07-12T00:13:54Z")
I’ll note that I favor all tactics on issues like racism. Some racists are swayed by calm and quiet logical refutations of their points. Others are swayed by extremely harsh personal criticism. Others are swayed by a combination, and still others (unfortunately) won’t be swayed by any argument. No (honest) rhetorical tactic should be entirely off limits – all can have their place. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/123 "2017-07-12T00:22:51Z")
> [@Crazy Canuck](#): > > Because it’s completely ineffective. You don’t get them to stop engaging in racism. You get them to stop engaging with you. And that is quite all right with me. I don’t want to engage with everyone. Who in the world would want that? I would prefer to keep my engagement to people who know how to keep their shitty thoughts and opinions to themselves, since I only have a limited amount of time on this planet. Why would I waste time and energy listening to someone who is full of shit, when there are so many smart people out there who I’d actually enjoy listening to? If **Annie Xmas** decides that I’m not a worthy person anymore because I think her post suggests she has low self-awareness and possibly intelligence , then okay. It’s not like her posts are the reason I get up in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/124 "2017-07-12T00:28:38Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Remember, I grew up in a time and place (New England in the 1950’s - 1960’s) where that word, while not considered “nice” was used. Long before people vs. Simpson. That’s how I first took notice of you. It was your insanely idiotic obsession with OJ. Like your yearly poll about who thinks that OJ was guilty and what your race is until you finally stopped when called on it. That’s not the only way that she shits up the board. Check out any thread in Cafe Society where people make lists of movies or shows or songs that have a certain characteristic. It’s inevitable that you’ll post something incorrect or that doesn’t fit the list. I don’t look at user names usually. I’ll just see something wrong and then look at the name and, yep, it’s dumbfuck Annie again. But whatever, I’m sure that I annoy people too. This tops it all. Who the fuck posts something like that and then defends it? Your attitude is disgusting and your disgusting attitude has finally been outed. You should be ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/125 "2017-07-12T00:39:09Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > And they will continue to state that and even worse racist things in the dark places with other likeminded (racist) folk. This leads to everyone being surprised when a fucking tool like Trump ends up getting voted in as President, because they thought they lived in a different world than the real one. Are you under the impression that we don’t know there is so much ugliness in the world? We know. We just want it in our faces 24 hours a day. I have a brother-in-law who grew up in the 50s and 60s in rural Texas. He’s clearly racist, and even he had learned you can’t use this particular slur not only in public but even in his own home. He’ll never think that blacks are the equal to whites, but I don’t care. I just don’t want to hear his opinions on race. Period. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/126 "2017-07-12T01:05:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m finding it odd that people think **Annie Xmas** deserves credit for keeping her racism to herself…when she exposed it quite overtly on a public message board, almost apropos of nothing. That’s what I found most bizarre about her post. Why was that little tidbit mentioned at all? I was sure I must have read the post wrong or was being whooshed, but apparently not. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/127 "2017-07-12T01:26:02Z")
> [@pool](#): > > There is a weird kind of false historical definition of the word “nigger”. I used to hear people in the South say it all the time that it didn’t refer to black people in general but to an ignorant person. I and others apparently have this false memory that the old definition was quietly changed kind of like how some collective group think Sinbad played a genie in Shazam even though it was Shaq. > > Mirriam-Webster even addresses this false collective memory: > > [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nigger](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nigger) My former husband, born and bred in the south, used ‘nigger’ to describe white people using this definition (though he never asserted that it was a dictionary definition- only that he used it in a specific way). It was more than ignorant, though- it’s difficult to put into exact words, but it’s more like an intentionally, belligerently, aggressively ignorant person, just this side of crazy redneck, but even that doesn’t quite hit the full definition. He almost never used it to refer to a black person. He also freely used the terms cracker, nigger-rigged, and jew down, so he was pretty much equal-opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/128 "2017-07-12T01:26:13Z")
The word for a black person in NE was “colored”, which I can hear now in my very proper grandmother’s voice. It was meant respectfully. Outside of Boston there were hardly any black people to speak of, and in any case my folks didn’t. Inside of Boston, black people were fighting with my cousins in Southie, over territory, jobs, or teenage boredom I imagine, and that went well beyond racism and into the kind of hatred and belligerence for which the Irish are known, and usually reserve for each other. I can see how not actually vocalizing a slur is a kind of improvement for some. I also get that others can’t accept or understand that and won’t be awarding any points. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/129 "2017-07-12T01:38:54Z")
In the early sixties “colored” was a not impolite term of address, but on its way out. I’ve said that you can tell when black organization were established by what self-referential term they use, NAACP, UNCF, Black Panthers. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/130 "2017-07-12T01:55:48Z")
The only time I hear the term “virtue signalling” is people complaining about being called out as douchebags. Story of a former gamer buddy. After he lost his job a couple of years ago and had a tough time getting another one (I dunno why, he was a truck driver and everyone is hiring), he started to get very bitter, angry and outright racist. So he’d make racist cracks, or tell racist jokes to the game group, and get shit about it. Then he’d get mad at being called a racist. Went to far as to quit the group in a tiff saying that he was really tired of being called a racist. As I told him at the time; “Perhaps you should get the clue that this is not the right audience for that sort of thing.” A few other members of the group said similar things. Apparently he went crawling back to the group and stopped spewing his racism and hate. So yes, telling people that they’re racists and you don’t want to hear it does make a difference, if only in stopping them from spewing that crap in your presence. Virtue Signalling. “Be a better person”. Gosh, what a horrible thing to do. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/131 "2017-07-12T02:01:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Racists will be racists with other racists. But by criticizing them, maybe they’ll be less likely to be racist with non-racists (and especially children). > > And if you’re arguing that there are more racists now than in the past, you’ll need more evidence than a single election. Polling shows the reverse. > > So basically you’ve got nothing useful to say, just vague broad-brushing. > > Maybe I’m doing something bad – that’s why specific posts and criticism can be useful. But if you can’t point to some specific post that you think is wrong, whether due to virtue-signalling or some other sin, then you might as well be pissing into the wind for all the good you’re doing. If you want to help make other posters better, point out the posts you think are bad. See post 114…his anger at a racial slur compelled him to call AnnieXMas a sexist slur. And no one blinked an eye. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/132 "2017-07-12T03:21:31Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > See post 114…his anger at a racial slur compelled him to call AnnieXMas a sexist slur. And no one blinked an eye. Do you honestly believe nigger and bitch are equivalent? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/133 "2017-07-12T03:21:31Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Virtue Signalling. “Be a better person”. Gosh, what a horrible thing to do. :rolleyes: Someone badmouths America? Conservatives have no problem telling such traitors to quit whining and go find another country if they’re so unhappy. Someone badmouths your family? Oh no they din’t! No one will blame you for losing your temper in response to “fightin’ words”. A lot of people even believe you aren’t a “real man” if you just sit there and let someone dishonor your family. But if someone offends you by talking shit about an entire race of people and you respond in anger and tell the racist to go fuck off, you’re just “signaling your virtue”, you big jerk! You’re not really upset; you’re just pretending to be upset, all’s so you can lord your superiority over a poor, innocent nutjob. So swallow your make-believe feelings and just sit there politely while the steaming garbage rains down on you. You may learn something! :rolleyes: Who knew that conservatives were the real special snowflakes? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/134 "2017-07-12T04:03:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, I share Chris Rock’s opinion that there is, or can be, a difference between being a nigger and being a black person. For some reason this doesn’t surprise me. Of all the people on the board, **Annie-Xmas** and you believe there are niggers in the world. It is nice that you are honest about it. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/135 "2017-07-12T04:30:29Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Do you honestly believe nigger and bitch are equivalent? You miss the point. Its not the victim of bigoted speech that makes it wrong, its the act. Obviously different slurs have different histories. And in 21st century America I would argue that bitch is worse because of its prevalence and its linkage to violence against women. Its dehumanizing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/136 "2017-07-12T04:48:01Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > Are you sure you mean left there, or did you mean to mis-identify me politically as well? Yes, I meant the left. The left has a problem with racism and acts against racism. The right says it has a problem with racism but often seems to find excuses for racism. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/137 "2017-07-12T05:03:47Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Oh, goodie! An outlet. > > Yes, we think horrible things about other people all the time. If you’re me, this is especially true while driving. > > But…an individual annoys you, so it “fits” to denigrate an entire race/ethnicity, rather than just judging the individual? What kind of bullshit logic is that? Do you sincerely believe “most of us” think that way? I’ll admit that something vaguely along these lines might pass through my private thoughts, but it wouldn’t occur to me to discuss this on a message board and beyond the end of the sentence, I shall not. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/138 "2017-07-12T05:25:17Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > No, of course they all aren’t. I’d even say the vast majority aren’t, and nothing else in this thread jumps out at me right now. However, when you use the phrase “I fully support driving them to the point where they’re afraid to act on their beliefs” as Little Nemo did, I find it hard to read _that comment_ any other way. > > I’m calling out the left in this thread for the over-the-top virtue signalling and thought policing, not bullying. I’m only calling Little Nemo out (so far) on the virtual bullying. Let’s discuss virtue signalling. Most racists wrongly believe that everyone else is secretly as racist as they are but is afraid to say it out loud. So racists pat themselves on the back for their bravery and honesty. But when people react like normal people do and condemn their racism, their little racist brains (which are their second smallest organ) can’t handle it. So they invent nonsense like virtue sharing. But no, we’re not just pretending to hate racism to show off. We’re honestly disgusted by racism. Thought policing? No, nobody wants to go inside the mind of a racist. Racists can think whatever stupidity they like. As long as they keep it to themselves. It’s only when a racist says or does something racist that it becomes a problem for normal people. Nobody wants to engage with racists either. Maybe back in 1957 there were people who honestly had never been exposed to the idea that racism was bad. Those people might have been open to a reasonable dialogue about why racism was wrong. But it’s 2017. Nobody needs to be told racism is wrong; it’s part of our culture now. Everybody has heard the message and if they’re racist it’s because they chose to be racist. As for bullying racists; yes, I embrace that accusation. I proudly bully racists. Bullying racists makes the world a better place. I was serious when I equated racists to child molesters. I’m no more ashamed of opposing racists than I am of opposing child molesters. Zero toleration in both cases. There’s no acceptable level of racism just as there’s no acceptable level of child molesting. I wouldn’t murder a racist or a child molester or commit a crime against them because that would violate my moral code. But I have no problem with bullying them into silence and inaction. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/139 "2017-07-12T06:13:05Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > You miss the point. Its not the victim of bigoted speech that makes it wrong, its the act. Obviously different slurs have different histories. And in 21st century America I would argue that bitch is worse because of its prevalence and its linkage to violence against women. Its dehumanizing. You miss the point. Unless I’ve been pretty mistaken for a while, **Merneith** is female, and you called her sexist for calling someone a bitch. Which makes you sexist for assuming she was a he. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000/140 "2017-07-12T08:29:39Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > bitch is worse because of its prevalence and its linkage to violence against women. Its dehumanizing. Wait, what? First of all, let me say I’m not a fan of gender-based insults, whether it is “schoomarmish,” or “bro-magnun,” or “testosterone-poisoned,” or “bitch.” I think discourse would be improved if we all eliminated those kinds of remarks. Now, let’s look at your assertion that “bitch” is worse than “nigger” because of (a) its prevalence; and (b) its linkage to violence against women. (a) First, what does frequency of usage have to do with where a slur falls on the nastiness scale? If people rarely use the slur “wog” in America, does that make “kike” worse because the latter is more frequently enunciated? Please explain. (b) Far be it from me to say that the word “bitch” isn’t linked to violence against women. But if you posit that kind of link, then surely it follows that “nigger” is similarly linked to violence against African Americans - you know, with our history of lynchings and all. Please explain, with evidence, how the word “bitch” is more violent than “nigger.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annie-xmas-i-can-think-of-a-word-that-fits/791000.md?page=8)