# Annihiliationism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591 "2011-08-22T00:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/61 "2011-08-22T17:42:44Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Everyone on Earth is an atheist until they are indoctrinated into some religion. If you grew up in India, you’d probably be a Hindu. This is equating Atheism with a religion such as Hinduism is not a correct comparison. It is Atheism compared to Theism or Buddhism compared to Hinduism. > [@](#): > > Atheism isn’t a filter, it’s the natural state of humanity. Where did you get this from? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/62 "2011-08-22T17:45:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > First, I’d like to see your answer to the following: > > Do you believe Tom Fiskaa is presently trekking across Antarctica? > > a) I do believe that Tom Fiskaa is presently trekking across Antarctica. > b) I lack that belief. > c) I do not believe that Tom Fiskaa is presently trekking across Antarctica. > > Do you answer B or C or both or neither? I would answer b only I have no disbelief or belief, he may or may not. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/63 "2011-08-22T17:47:07Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I would answer b only. Then, as per your “Please post the multiple choice question to that structure”: Do you believe there is a God? a) I believe there is a God. b) I lack that belief. c) I do not believe that God exists. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/64 "2011-08-22T17:56:26Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > This is equating Atheism with a religion such as Hinduism is not a correct comparison. It is Atheism compared to Theism or Buddhism compared to Hinduism. You don’t understand what you read. Atheism is the natural state of humanity. People are then indoctrinated by others in their culture. If you were born in India, you’d likely be a Hindu. If you were born in Afghanistan, you’d likely be a Muslim. If you were born in Norway, you’d likely not get any indoctrination and remain an atheist. > [@](#): > > Where did you get this from? It is obvious. Christianity is something that you learn, like any religion. No person, as an infant knows anything at all about Gods or religion. They have to be (mis)informed by the people around them in order to believe. You were an atheist once, until you decided to believe what you do. You did this without evidence, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/65 "2011-08-22T17:56:40Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Then, as per your “Please post the multiple choice question to that structure”: > > Do you believe there is a God? > > a) I believe there is a God. > b) I lack that belief. > c) I do not believe that God exists. Going back to Tom Fiskaa. If a person showed you a photo and claimed it was a photo of Tom Fiskaa’s trekking party taken yesterday in Antarctica: (a) If you believe, you are more likely to accept this photo as true, and that person’s credibility on (just) that issue is likely to increase (b) If you lack a belief that picture may be used to help form a belief (c) if you do not belief that picture and claim would tend to have you discredit the person making the claim. (a) and (c) are filters, while (b) in a potential learning state ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/66 "2011-08-22T17:59:02Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It is obvious. Christianity is something that you learn, like any religion. No person, as an infant knows anything at all about Gods or religion. They have to be (mis)informed by the people around them in order to believe. > > You were an atheist once, until you decided to believe what you do. You did this without evidence, by the way. I do agree that man teaches man religion, but I disagree that one is born (first self aware) a atheist. You are incorrectly equating religion with theism. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/67 "2011-08-22T18:00:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Going back to Tom Fiskaa. > > If a person showed you a photo and claimed it was a photo of Tom Fiskaa’s trekking party taken yesterday in Antarctica: > (a) If you believe, you are more likely to accept this photo as true, and that person’s credibility on (just) that issue is likely to increase > (b) If you lack a belief that picture would be used to help form a belief > (c) if you do not belief that picture and claim would tend to have you discredit the person making the claim. > > (a) and (c) are filters, while (b) in a potential learning state It might be worthwhile to note that if a person _felt it in their heart that Tom Fiskaa was in Nebraska, at a Denny’s, ordering a Grand Slam_. That wouldn’t be evidence either way. Yet others say just such a thing is evidence for religions. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/68 "2011-08-22T18:05:32Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I do agree that man teaches man religion, but I disagree that one is born (first self aware) a atheist. They certainly don’t have any recognizable religious beliefs. > [@](#): > > You are incorrectly equating religion with theism. Theism is religion for people who don’t want to memorize stuff. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/69 "2011-08-22T18:09:35Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > They certainly don’t have any recognizable religious beliefs. Exactly 🙂 That’s theism without religion > [@](#): > > Theism is religion for people who don’t want to memorize stuff. 😃 😃 Another LOL close call with the keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/70 "2011-08-22T18:41:15Z")
Getting back to the OP, I have a counter-question that might show you where atheists are coming from: Would you be more likely to believe in Santa Claus if I told you that he uses teleportation to deliver toys instead of a magic sled? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/71 "2011-08-22T18:46:20Z")
A more important question: If I know Tom Fiskaa as my personal savior, will I go to heaven? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/72 "2011-08-22T19:05:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Getting back to the OP, I have a counter-question that might show you where atheists are coming from: > > Would you be more likely to believe in Santa Claus if I told you that he uses teleportation to deliver toys instead of a magic sled? Excellent, except that may I suggest an even more on point analogy? Would you be more likely to believe in Santa Claus if he were to give you nothing at all for being bad, instead of giving you a lump of coal in your stocking? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/73 "2011-08-22T19:17:09Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Excellent, except that may I suggest an even more on point analogy? > > Would you be more likely to believe in Santa Claus if he were to give you nothing at all for being bad, instead of giving you a lump of coal in your stocking? _Much_ better. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/74 "2011-08-22T20:25:16Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > A more important question: If I know Tom Fiskaa as my personal savior, will I go to heaven? Yes, but it’ll be _really, really_ cold. You’d be better off choosing a warmer savior. ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/75 "2011-08-22T20:42:12Z")
What is the agreed definition of “Eternal Joy?” I have difficulty believing about eternal life because I’m just full of questions about it. For instance, a) What is “Eternal Joy?” b) Is everyone’s “Eternal Joy” the same or different? What I like to do might be different than what someone else likes to do. Everyone has different hobbies. I like to go on the Internet and browse articles. Would I be able to do that in the after-life or would I have to do what someone else likes to do for all eternity? c) What do Christians believe that eternal life is like? Do we spend an eternity skipping through roses or any of that stereotypical heaven nonsense? d) Would heaven be “fun (for lack of a better word)?” ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/76 "2011-08-22T20:49:47Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Annihilationism is the belief that in the afterlife non-Christians’ souls are simply destroyed rather than punished in Hell forever. I guess it’s not as bad as non-Christians being tortured forever; however, non-Christians are still being punished. In my humble opinion, this is an unfair belief. What if people were never introduced to Christianity? There may have been reasons why some people were never introduced to the religion, so why should they be punished? What if people choose not to follow Christianity? In a sense, this is punishing people’s free-will. We have the freedom to choose what religion to follow. Christians believe that God gave us free-will, right? Is freedom to choose a religion somehow excluded from free-will? It’s a reward system. Christians are being promised with the gift of everlasting-life. According to this belief, non-Christians have their souls destroyed (see the OP’s definition of Annihilationism). It seems like bribery to me. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/77 "2011-08-22T20:51:29Z")
Twain’s _Letters from the Earth_ touches on the “eternal joy” thing, at least in part. It discusses how the stereotypical Christian version of heaven made no mention of sexual pleasure, but simply described a rather vapid, bland and, in short order, extremely irritating place that nobody would voluntarily stay at for any length of time, let alone eternity. ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/78 "2011-08-22T20:57:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Twain’s _Letters from the Earth_ touches on the “eternal joy” thing, at least in part. It discusses how the stereotypical Christian version of heaven made no mention of sexual pleasure, but simply described a rather vapid, bland and, in short order, extremely irritating place that nobody would voluntarily stay at for any length of time, let alone eternity. Ick! According to that definition, heaven sounds like my definition of hell. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/79 "2011-08-23T09:09:26Z")
There’s the slight problem that for me Eternal Joy would require no-one suffering eternal punishment, for which there is no crime possible which is worthy of it. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591/80 "2011-08-23T09:36:16Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Annihilationism is the belief that in the afterlife non-Christians’ souls are simply destroyed rather than punished in Hell forever. Do you think the idea is more tolerable-after all for atheists its no worse than what you’ve expected. I get way more of a kick out of believers telling me I’m going to hell, so please don’t change your fantasies on my behalf. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annihiliationism/593591.md?page=5)