# Announcement: I am not voting for Bush. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2004, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893 "2004-09-10T08:23:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/61 "2004-09-11T18:31:35Z")
I should point out that that happened in 1972, just in case anyone out there is wondering who the freak Ed Muskie is. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/62 "2004-09-11T20:38:43Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Can you please cite a post of mine where I treat someone poorly because they are a Bush supporter? I said you treated them as a mindless drone because they were Bush supporters. Your post is my cite, because you have stated (and repeated) that I am a mindless partisan. > [@Binarydrone](#): > > Also, you really don’t quite have it right. The reason that I am in conflict with you has nothing to do with the fact that you happen to be on the other side of the political spectrum than I. There are many posters here that you could say that about that I respect and can get along with (i.e. the OP). Again, the problem that I have with you is that you seem to me to be blindly partisan and my take on that is that blind partisanship is one of the single greatest threats facing my beloved country. So you didn’t read my link. Or you did, and chose to disregard it and continue to accuse me of being mindlessly partisan. Exactly as you claimed you wouldn’t do, and I claimed the Usual Suspects would. Why do I bother with you people? You can’t seem to debate in good faith. You wanna know the worst part of the elections? My respect for liberals is dropping further and further with every day. Either you are showing yourselves to be complete morons like **rjung** , lying dolts like **Demostyles** and **Diogenes** , or ridiculous clowns like the ones **Weirddave** and **Airman** described. And it seems every fucking post is another liberal trying to get on the list. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/63 "2004-09-11T22:29:29Z")
Ya got enough nails for that cross of yours, **Shodan?**'cuz I’m running down to Home Depot later this afternoon… Or, to summarize **Shodan’s** view: “Weh! Weh! Pity me! I take stupid conservative positions and defend them to the death even when big gaping holes have been blown in my arguments, and everyone calls me an idiot for doing so! Where’s the love and respect? Weh! Weh!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/64 "2004-09-11T23:34:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > My respect for liberals is dropping further and further with every day. Either you are showing yourselves to be complete morons like **rjung** , lying dolts like **Demostyles** and **Diogenes** , or ridiculous clowns like the ones **Weirddave** and **Airman** described. You didn’t say “some” liberals. You said “you,” so I assume you are including the lot. Aren’t you doing the same thing here that you accuse liberals of doing? How about taking issue with individuals and not large and diverse groups of people. I know you singled out a few for your special snarky attention, but they do not represent all liberals any more than you do conservatives. And they happen to be among the more interesting posters. Even you fit into that category at least some of the time. Shades of gray, man. Shades of gray. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/65 "2004-09-12T00:08:11Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > You know, I’m beginning to think that Kerry _doesn’t_ want the White House. **His idiotic statement that the Assault Weapons Ban is an anti-terrorist measure being a prime example of sheer stupidity. Not because I give one whit about assault weapons and whether or not they should be banned, but because linking it to terrorists is as absurd as Bush’s statement that terrorists plan on poisoning perscription drugs from Canada.** As 9/11 demonstrated, terrorists don’t _need_ assault weapons to do major damage. Nor is someone who’s under the misguided notion that killing innocent women and children somehow gets them a slot in heaven with 72 virgins going to worry about piddly little things like laws prohibiting them from modifying a weapon so it violates the ban. This is what Kerry said. Seems to me he was repeating something the terrorists themselves said. > [@](#): > > **…an al Qaeda training manual recovered in Afghanistan included a chapter urging terrorists to get assault weapons in the United States.** So what if he’s using it to political advantage? I’m glad _someone_ brought these two issues together. Here’s his entire press statement from [http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/002776.html#more:](http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/002776.html#more:) > [@](#): > > John Kerry issued the following statement today on the assault weapons ban, which is set to expire on Monday: > > “Four years ago, George Bush said he’d stand with and protect America’s police officers by extending the assault weapons ban – which keeps the most dangerous assault weapons off our streets. The same weapons that America’s police officers want off our streets, not just to fight ordinary crime but to take on terrorists. In fact, an al Qaeda training manual recovered in Afghanistan included a chapter urging terrorists to get assault weapons in the United States. Why is George Bush making the job of the terrorists easier and making the job for America’s police officers harder? > > “Here’s the answer: the NRA put the squeeze on George Bush and they’re spending tens of millions of dollars to support his campaign. So now, the president is saying with a wink and a smile that he’ll extend the assault weapons ban if Congress sends it to him. And Congress says they’ll send it to him if he asks for it. > “But time is running out. the assault weapons ban will expire on Monday. > “Here’s the question: is George Bush going to stand with special interests or with the safety of the American people? He has 72 hours to decide. > > “Let me be very clear. I support the Second Amendment. I’ve been a hunter all my life. But I don’t think we need to make the job of the terrorists any easier. I stand with the vast majority of the American people and call on George W. Bush to protect our police – and our security – and keep assault weapons off our street." ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/66 "2004-09-12T01:40:19Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > This is what Kerry said. Seems to me he was repeating something the terrorists themselves said. > > So what if he’s using it to political advantage? I’m glad _someone_ brought these two issues together. Except that the ban is _meaningless_. It doesn’t prohibit anyone from owning a semi-automatic weapon, it prevents them from mounting bayonets, flash suppressors, and folding stocks on the things. Whoopdeedoo. I really don’t think that terrorists are going to care if they’ve got a bayonet on their gun or not. Additionally, it’s still perfectly legal to buy a weapon with those items provided it was produced before the ban was enacted. Next, the assault weapons ban hasn’t stopped people from using semi-automatic weapons in killing sprees in the US. Remember the DC sniper? Remember Columbine? And finally, if you’re a terrorist, are you really gonna care if the gun’s legal or not? It’s not really that difficult to get a banned weapon illegally if you want one. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/67 "2004-09-12T05:54:41Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > If I can’t keep it civil in GD, of if things get too ridiculous I just walk away from the thread. > -XT Yeah, and then go snipe at them in the middle of someone else’s pit thread. Real classy.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/68 "2004-09-12T05:56:57Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Except that the ban is _meaningless_. It doesn’t prohibit anyone from owning a semi-automatic weapon, it prevents them from mounting bayonets… Mistake #1: Trying to use logic when talking to **Equipoise**. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/69 "2004-09-12T06:00:09Z")
Shodan, Small point of order: I simply overlooked your post with that cite. I am not trying to debate in poor faith or to be intellectually dishonest. Now that I think about it I have some recollection of you trotting it out at some point in the past in another thread. So, it seems that I should have remembered that you suggested that Bush step aside 4 years ago. That said, I hope that I have been clear in expressing that I am making a sharp distinction between Bush supporters and partisans. While they overlap, they are two different things. How should I be reading that thread so that you don’t seem partisan to me? The motive behind it really seems to be the advancement of the Republican Party, although I will just take it on faith if you tell me that you really just wanted what was best for the country. I really just can’t recall an instance where you have been critical of your party or have admitted when the other side got something right. Understand that I dislike this behavior on both sides. Its like people can’t get that we have nothing to loose by seeing the good in folks that we disagree with politically. Put me on whatever list you want. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/70 "2004-09-12T12:21:00Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > You didn’t say “some” liberals. You said “you,” so I assume you are including the lot. Aren’t you doing the same thing here that you accuse liberals of doing? Yes, OF COURSE I’m doing it, you moron. I’m doing to them exactly what they do to anyone who refuses to perform the ritual renunciation of Bush. The exchanges are running exactly to form. “There is some doubt about those documents alleging Bush disobeyed an order/Kerry’s service record/this ad that [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) ran/what Moore says about Bush and bin Laden/whatever.” “YOU FUCKING MINDLESS REPUBLICAN DRONE! ANYONE WHO COULD SUPPORT THAT LYING EVIL BAD NASTY BUSH IS A HYPOCRITE! FUCK YOU!” “Geez, you liberals over-react. Can’t you discuss anything besides what you hate most about Bush?” “You’re lumping all liberals together! Unfair, unfair!” :rolleyes: > [@Binarydrone](#): > > Shodan, Small point of order: I simply overlooked your post with that cite. So when you said you would gladly read any cite I provided, you didn’t mean it. > [@Binarydrone](#): > > I really just can’t recall an instance where you have been critical of your party or have admitted when the other side got something right. I just provided one. If you are going to claim that it doesn’t count because thinking Gore deserved to be President is really a sinister plot to advance the interests of the Republican party, I don’t know what to say to you. Except to point out that you are doing exactly what I said the extremists do - ignore all evidence of nuance in favor of blanket assumptions about the motives of anyone who has posted in support of Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/71 "2004-09-12T14:56:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > …So when you said you would gladly read any cite I provided, you didn’t mean it… No. What I said was that I **OVERLOOKED** the post in which you provided the cite. As in I did not see it until you pointed it out to me later. How could I have been more clear than I was? You also don’t seem to get that I simply do not make assumptions about the motivations of anyone that had posted in support of Bush. I will admit that I make assumptions about _your_ motivations, but that is 100% personal and has nothing to do with Bush. As you seem to be so subtle and nuanced, I hope that you can see the difference. You are seeing things that just are not there. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/72 "2004-09-12T15:06:14Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > You didn’t say “some” liberals. You said “you,” so I assume you are including the lot. Aren’t you doing the same thing here that you accuse liberals of doing? How about taking issue with individuals and not large and diverse groups of people. I know you singled out a few for your special snarky attention, but they do not represent all liberals any more than you do conservatives. And they happen to be among the more interesting posters. Even you fit into that category at least some of the time. Shades of gray, man. Shades of gray. Glad to know that **Shodan** can fall precisely into the middle of the same trap he is setting for us Liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/73 "2004-09-12T23:32:28Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > This is what Kerry said. Seems to me he was repeating something the terrorists themselves said. > > So what if he’s using it to political advantage? I’m glad _someone_ brought these two issues together. > Here’s his entire press statement from [http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/002776.html#more:](http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/002776.html#more:) Please do me a favor and don’t quote Kerry anymore, OK? It’s hard enough to vote for him when I am not having stupid things he’s saying shoved under my nose for me to read. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/74 "2004-09-13T01:13:12Z")
For what it’s worth, **Airman** , I did know that you were voting against Bush this election. Good on you for taking a stance on principle, even if it’s the hard thing to do… ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/75 "2004-09-13T03:18:05Z")
Kudos to you folks who consider yourself conservative but will be voting for Kerry over Bush. I only wish that the American public at large were informed as some of the conservatives on the SDMB about just how poor a president Bush is, even if he is supposedly the candidate representative of your ideology. I know that it must not be an easy compromise to make and I am sure that you will not be happy with everything that Kerry does…But, I predict that you will not regret your decision. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/76 "2004-09-13T08:55:57Z")
**AD:** _It is really aggravating to me to have Bush referred to as my President, my boy, my hero, and all sorts of other things in an attempt to neutralize my comments. I have stated my intent to vote for Kerry in multiple threads, every time in response to someone who tries to attack me by making me out to be a Bush supporter._ I would just like to add that I sympathize with your irritation about being pigeonholed like this (I feel somewhat the same way when conservative or libertarian posters call me a “socialist” or “extreme leftist”, which I’m not, just because I make moderately critical comments about some aspects of capitalism). I would also like to say how encouraging I find it that some staunch Republicans/conservatives consider it “aggravating” to have it assumed that they approve of their party’s incumbent, and feel “attacked” by implications that they’re “Bush supporters”. Ordinarily, people don’t feel “attacked” by the fairly natural assumption that they’re backing their own party’s candidate. I think this indicates that many Republicans and conservatives feel that Bush doesn’t really represent conservative principles, nor is he a good thing for the Republican party, and I agree with them. I hope there are many more like you, **Airman**. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/77 "2004-09-13T13:00:18Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > Let’s hope we find equalibrium sometime soon. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/78 "2004-09-13T16:18:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The exchanges are running exactly to form. > > “There is some doubt about those documents alleging Bush disobeyed an order/Kerry’s service record/this ad that [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) ran/what Moore says about Bush and bin Laden/whatever.” > > “YOU FUCKING MINDLESS REPUBLICAN DRONE! ANYONE WHO COULD SUPPORT THAT LYING EVIL BAD NASTY BUSH IS A HYPOCRITE! FUCK YOU!” [Bullshit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274827&page=6). As, of course, you know, or would know if you weren’t so blindly partisan. Your argument in this thead has got to be the most hypocritical, pot-calling-the-kettle-black that I’ve ever seen on this board. There are decent, non-hyperpartisan Republicans on these boards; there are honest, thoughtful folks around here who support Bush. You’re not among them lately. It’s telling that you’ve got to go back four years to find a post in which you supported the opposition, and that you’ve apparently bookmarked that post so that you can pull it up whenever your partisanship is pointed out. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/79 "2004-09-13T16:31:37Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > What the fuck _does_ it take to get someone on the ballot with some brains? No, really, I mean that. If anyone **wants** to beat Bush, all they’ve gotta do is simply hammer _one_ theme, over and over again: Where’s Osama, Stupid? That’s all they’ve gotta do, and they’ll be a serious contender for the White House. Yet, **nobody** is doing that. Not Kerry, not Nader, not whomever the Libertarians are fielding this year, nobody. Why the fuck not? Nope. That won’t work, either. You have to admire Bush for one thing: he’s got all the bases covered. What happens when he gets attacked for not having Osama and suddenly Osama ges caught? What happens when you hammer Bush for the economy and the job numbers come out and they’re up? What happens when you beat Bush up for WMDs (or lack thereof) and suddenly some appear (which could actually happen, in my opinion)? Everything Kerry can say has the potential to blow his own foot off later. So he has two choices: he can run as the Anti-Bush or he can run on his record. If he runs on his record he’s finished. All he can do is carry the liberal vote, get some of the liberal middle, and get some fringe malcontents like myself and hope that’s enough. That’s what’s sad. Where have all the good men gone? Oh, that’s right, a good man won’t open himself up to character attacks and systematic dissection of everything he’s ever done, like when he snagged a fiver out of his mom’s purse when he was 16 or peed in the local public pool when he was 12. The ones who run are so shamelessly pursuing power that they’ll take the hits just to be the boss. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893/80 "2004-09-13T19:52:54Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > So, do you all understand that? I am not voting for Bush. I reserve the right to criticize both candidates as I see fit. Got it? Good. Because I am sick to death of the attempted ad hominem attacks upon me simply because I choose to voice my opinion. **Airman Doors** , a quick hijack, for your sake, from an interested party speaking as a private citizen. President Bush and Senator Kerry are both serving in offices listed in 10 USC section 888 (“Outside Activities”). It encompasses what active duty members of the uniformed services may and may not say about the President, Congress, etc. as prejudicial to good order and discipline. Normally, I’d consider anything you say on this forum to be your own opinion (off duty, out of uniform, and therefore protected speech) but your username is a sort of permanent uniform, and one hell of an interesting gray area. I don’t think you’ve said anything so far that could get you in trouble, and I honestly don’t know why OSI or any JAG would bother to hunt down and prosecute an Airman – especially one as intelligent and articulate as yourself – when clearly you’re an asset to my Air Force and my country. Your tact so far has been admirable. Nonetheless, I advise you to tread lightly until after Election Day when you and I find out whether we have a new boss or not. Did I say you and I? I meant, um, you. Because I’m totally speaking as a private citizen :rolleyes: on this board, all the time. Right then, off to get my blues pressed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/announcement-i-am-not-voting-for-bush/263893.md?page=5)