# Annoying Historical Myths **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 28, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959 "2004-03-28T20:04:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/81 "2004-03-29T14:10:13Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > Oooh, [slave narratives](http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/snhtml/snhome.html) Great link, sugaree. The American Memory collection is awesome. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/82 "2004-03-29T14:15:23Z")
> [@Spiny Norman](#): > > The French military is a joke that has surrendered at any given opportunity. > > Simply ain’t true. Well they won’t give up St. Pierre and Miquelon. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/83 "2004-03-29T14:22:37Z")
> [@fushj00mang](#): > > Oh yea, there’s another myth I hate, that Canada has a military. 😉 Re: my previous post as well Not to Canada anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/84 "2004-03-29T14:27:08Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > American Indians were primative savages who were lucky the Euopeans came along. Or, they were all noble New Agey types who lived in perfect peace and harmony with nature and each other. Or they all lived in tepees, shot buffalo with bows and arrows, and said “How!” There are plenty of myths about the “redskins.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/85 "2004-03-29T14:28:15Z")
> [@fushj00mang](#): > > Oh yea, there’s another myth I hate, that Canada has a military. 😉 > > I would have to say ‘no.’ Now, the no is in marks for a reason. I am not sure of the status between Canada and the British Empire at the time (the Commonwealth and all that. Were they a part of the Empire, as India was?) While the Canadian trooper would have indeed died fighting Nazism in Europe, he didn’t die in the Second World War. At the same time, neither did any of the American soldiers who were alongside Chang Kai Shek’s forces in China in the '30s and 1940. Canada declared war independently. Your conclusion is frankly preposterous. The beginning and end of the Second World War is defined by the preponderance of opinion in terms of what war was - not in terms of some lame definition of what constitutes a “world war.” As has been pointed out, using your definition, the Second World War was actually the First World War. Those two wars were called “world wars” because the name just stuck. The Second World War began in September 1939, because that’s where 99.9% of all the historians on earth have agreed to start counting, and in fact is where the people at the time started counting. And that’s really the only definition that matters. In any event, we’re discussion historical myths, not semantic disputes. **matt\_mcl** was, I believe, referring to the notion that Americans think the war started at Pearl Harbor. I don’t actually know any educated Americans who think that, but maybe some do. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/86 "2004-03-29T14:36:16Z")
Nine million people were killed in the Burning Times. The Church caused the Dark Ages. Exodus really says “you shall not allow a poisoner to live” but King James caused “poisoner” to be translated as “witch”. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/87 "2004-03-29T14:41:53Z")
Reagan won the Cold War. Reagan caused the collapse of communism. Puh-leeze. The Soviet government collapsed due to its corruption and inefficiency, and also because Gorbachev was not willing to ruthlessly smite his opponents. The only thing Reagan accomplished with his military excesses was to bankrupt the country. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/88 "2004-03-29T14:42:43Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > IIRC, Hindus most often get the credit for this, because they were the ones who invented the zero _symbol_, of a circle. And used it in a base-ten place-notation system, that was what the West adopted. The Arabs get credit because that’s who the Europeans got it from. (Islamic scholars had brought together Greek and Indian maths and spread them through their sphere of influence.) Interestingly, in Spanish our numeration system IS called “indoarábico”. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/89 "2004-03-29T14:47:47Z")
The First World War was originally called the “Great War”. It was only at the onset of WWII did it get called a “World War”. So the terminology used changes. But the currently accepted definition of WWII usually agrees on a start date of 1939. Future historians may settle on another name, (“20th Century Madness; part 2 in a series of 200”?) but further facts are unlikely to surface to change the start date. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/90 "2004-03-29T14:48:50Z")
Canada kicked the US’ ass in the War of 1812. Oh, and _we_ burned the White House down. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/91 "2004-03-29T14:53:58Z")
I could start a whole thread on Hollywood myths alone: _The Jazz Singer_ being the first talkie, Thomas Edison “invented movies,” etc. If **Ukulele Ike** were around, we could discuss Lupe Velez drowning in her toilet. Where _is_ **Ike** these days? Anyone checked his bathroom? ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/92 "2004-03-29T15:00:08Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Canada kicked the US’ ass in the War of 1812. Oh, and _we_ burned the White House down. Care for a rematch? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/93 "2004-03-29T15:13:34Z")
> [@](#): > > The USSR collapsed when the Berlin Wall did… Depends on how you look at it. It was only a couple of years of slow-motion collapse, so its not exactly wrong. Two years is practically nothing from a historical viewpoint. > [@](#): > > They were a bunch of guys living on Mexican soil annoyed because the Mexicans decided they couldn’t have slaves anymore. And dadgummit, no one takes a Texan’s slaves away from him. Especially not a bunch of dirty Mexicans. Well, tat and they wanted to rule themselves. Such is life. > [@](#): > > America saved Europe’s ass in World War II. Its highly questionable whether England could have continued resisting (Germany may not have been able to invade, but Britain couldn’t have fought back) or Russia absorb the Wehrmacht without US economic aid, as well as military aid. Certainly, the US didn’t win it all by our lonesome selves, but Russia can’t claim that honor, either. > [@](#): > > The U.S. won its war for independence by wisely shooting from behind protection while the “foolish” British and Hessian troops fought in the “old style” standing shoulder to shoulder. gah! Partly true. Many of the American forces fought like guerrillas. Though many people do forget that we also fought continental style, too. Our habit of harrassing the British without direct confrontation was well-suited to the terrain and dispposition of our forces. > [@](#): > > I live in Virginia, and have a father who has traced our lineage back to Robert E. Lee. Therefore, he considers himself a Civil War buff. He trouts this line out to me all the time. I’ve never bothered to research it, but it’s never sounded right to me. Could someone debunk this for me? > [@](#): > > Doublequote: > > That’s the classic mythical argument. However, history has not shown people to be rational animals, and one should not form pictures of history based on what he or she believes logical people might have done in that situation. Instead, one tries to find evidence for what people really did do, however disgusting it might be. > > … > > I agree that slave-beatings probably didn’t occur as often as bad novels would have you believe. What did happen very frequently was worse: rape and sale. Slave families rarely remained together for a lifetime; even if your master truly cared about you and your family ties, Well, yes and no to both. Sure, by our standards they didn’t treat slaves well, nor even by their own standards. But on the other hand, the slave population in the US went from the 350K imported blacks to the 3 million of the antebelum period. So while slavery was brutal and cruel, it was also the kindest in the New World. Both views are correct. Life was far better on the Older, east-coast states, largely because tghose areas weren’t expanding production and all the hot-blooded young entrepreneurs were moving west. > [@](#): > > - Ancient artifacts like Stonehenge prove that ancient nonliterate societies were very astronomically sophisticated. Well, sort of, yes. Many of them were pretty sophisticated star-readers. [quote] - Galileo dropped heavy and light objects off the Leaning Tower of Pisa to prove they would fall at the same rate. He probably didn’t, but we have nothing to say either way. Its possible. > [@](#): > > - The ancient Greeks invented science. > > - The seventeenth-century Europeans invented science. Err… you can make a pretty good argument for both of these places/periods. It all depends on what a given person considers science. > [@](#): > > Mrs. O’Leary’s cow kicked over a lantern and started the Great Chicago Fire. While its true that modern investigation implicates O’Lery’s neighbor the drunk, you can hardly blame people for a myth that has been repeated (with reasonably good evidence) for what, 80 years now? > [@](#): > > Reagan caused the collapse of communism. > > Puh-leeze. The Soviet government collapsed due to its corruption and inefficiency, and also because Gorbachev was not willing to ruthlessly smite his opponents. The only thing Reagan accomplished with his military excesses was to bankrupt the country. Coming from a man named Bob-Lib-Dem… :rolleyes: Sure, the USSR might have collapsed if it hadn’ tried to match Reagan’s build up. But we don’t know that, so you are essentially casting past what-if’s to suit your political views. And even if it had collapsed, it might have taken the USSR another generation - or three - to die off, and perhaps would not have become a democracy. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/94 "2004-03-29T15:24:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Sure, by our standards they didn’t treat slaves well, nor even by their own standards. But on the other hand, the slave population in the US went from the 350K imported blacks to the 3 million of the antebelum period. So while slavery was brutal and cruel, it was also the kindest in the New World. Both views are correct. Life was far better on the Older, east-coast states, largely because those areas weren’t expanding production and all the hot-blooded young entrepreneurs were moving west. “Kindest in the New World.” Well, what other institutions of slavery in the new world are you comparing it too? And how does an increase in population mean suggest that life was better? ---
**Author:** ![RobuSensei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@RobuSensei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobuSensei)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/95 "2004-03-29T15:25:04Z")
Betsy Ross created the first United States flag. Vomitoria. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/96 "2004-03-29T15:31:16Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Canada kicked the US’ ass in the War of 1812. Oh, and _we_ burned the White House down. Well, the U.S. invasion of Canada _did_ fail, albeit York(Toronto) got burned. And the White House _was_ burned down, albeit by the British. My mother is Canadian, and moved to the States at about age 14. She’s said that she studied the war her last year in Canadian school, and her first year in U.S. school. For a while, she thought they were two different wars. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/97 "2004-03-29T15:45:03Z")
Hasn’t the whole Victorians/sex/table legs thing been debunked? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/98 "2004-03-29T15:53:57Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Nine million people were killed in the Burning Times. What are the “burning times”? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/99 "2004-03-29T16:12:07Z")
The Emperor Caligula made his horse a Consul. Shakespeare was an ignorant clod and the real author was Marlowe/Bacon/Queen Elizabeth I/insert name of choice. Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy. The ancient Egyptians were negroes. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959/100 "2004-03-29T16:19:09Z")
> [@snorlax](#): > > Stonehenge was built by Druids. They were a strange race of people. No one knows who they were…or what they were doing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/annoying-historical-myths/236959.md?page=6)