# Anonymous = Coward? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 6, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882 "2018-09-06T15:30:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/141 "2018-09-09T07:00:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Well, if this is true, you have an unprecedented case of a president’s administration **actively** working to thwart the president they work for as a matter of course. You have an un-elected group of people running the country. > > So yeah…big deal. > > Or a lie. But if it is a lie that the NYT perpetuated that in itself is a really big deal. You misspelled **half-assedly**. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/142 "2018-09-09T13:00:04Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Children in cages? Taking steps to increase the pollution that you and I will have to breath? Insulting our allies and complimenting our enemies? Giving a secret to the Russians? Lying his ass off? Saying Nazis are good people? > Saying that having those charged give testimony in return for a lighter sentence should be illegal? Okay, that is good for mob bosses at least. > Not to mention that his appointees - the best people, right? - think some of what he is doing is bad for America, which is why they were trying to stop it. Those same appointees have called him an idiot. As has been pointed out to you repeatedly. > If he really appoints the best people the best people don’t like him - those who don’t go to jail. If he does not, then he’s lying. Are you talking about the photos of children in cages that actually occured under Obama: > **[Obama officials rushed to explain photos from 2014 that went viral showing...](https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5)** > > Several 2014 photos of detained immigrant children resurfaced and went viral in May. Former Obama administration officials tried to explain the context behind the photos, which appeared to show migrant kids locked up in cages. Recent photos of Trump... ? Where is air pollution increasing? He is doing great on foreign policy. If he is insulting anyone, it is the globalists. How has he complimented our enemies? What secret did he give the Russians? What are his lies? As far as I know, he never said “Nazis are good people”: cite please. He thinks people are motivated to say lies against someone else so prosecutors won’t throw the book at them for stuff they may never have done. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/143 "2018-09-09T15:02:11Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Are you talking about the photos of children in cages that actually occured under Obama: > [Obama Officials Explain Viral Photos of Immigrant Children in Cages](https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5) > ? Where is air pollution increasing? He is doing great on foreign policy. If he is insulting anyone, it is the globalists. How has he complimented our enemies? What secret did he give the Russians? What are his lies? As far as I know, he never said “Nazis are good people”: cite please. He thinks people are motivated to say lies against someone else so prosecutors won’t throw the book at them for stuff they may never have done. So you want to argue about 5 different Trump complaints at once? Hoo boy. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/144 "2018-09-09T15:51:52Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Are you talking about the photos of children in cages that actually occured under Obama: > [Obama Officials Explain Viral Photos of Immigrant Children in Cages](https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5) From that cite: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > “What the Obama administration did, which is what the law requires, is to find shelter facilities for those kids, which were put together by the Department of Health and Human Services. So the goal was to get kids out of the Border Patrol, into proper care by HHS, and then HHS is supposed to release them to the least restrictive setting, and in more than 80% of the cases, that was their parents who were already in the United States.” > > Trump’s administration does have a new policy to separate children from their parents > > Both Favreau and Muñoz argued that the Trump administration’s policy of separating families at the border is different from the Obama administration’s handling of unaccompanied children. The cite actually showed that Obama had mostly kids that traveled alone and those cages were a very temporary thing. Trump actually separated families as a policy and those cages are used more by Trump and for longer periods of time. Currently, Trump is defying court orders and continues to try and use loopholes to avoid complying with court orders regarding reuniting families of their incarceration. > **[Judge blocks Trump from deporting reunited families](https://www.vox.com/2018/8/17/17714918/children-separated-parents-deport-asylum)** > > Hundreds of parents had been told to waive their children’s right to an asylum hearing to keep the family together. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > ? Where is air pollution increasing? Trump’s plan is coming and the picture is not pretty: > [@](#): > > So it was no surprise that President Donald Trump picked the state to announce his plan rolling back Obama-era pollution controls on coal-fired power plants. > > Trump left one thing out of his remarks, though: northern West Virginia coal country will be ground zero for increased deaths and illnesses from the rollback on regulation of harmful emission from the nation’s coal power plants. > > An analysis done by his own Environmental Protection Agency concludes that the plan would lead to a greater number of people here dying prematurely, and suffering health problems that they otherwise would not have, than elsewhere in the country, when compared to health impacts of the Obama plan. The relaxation of pollution rules (By Trump) already in place does not lead one to assume that the situation is improving. > **[Weakening Car Pollution Rules: This May Be Trump’s Dumbest Rollback Yet](https://www.nrdc.org/stories/weakening-car-pollution-rules-may-be-trumps-dumbest-rollback-yet)** > > The president wants to relax national fuel efficiency standards and bully states into scuttling their own plans for lower emissions and cleaner air.... > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > He is doing great on foreign policy. Hah hah ha… [wipes tear] No. > **[Trump did not solve the North Korea problem in Singapore—in fact, the threat...](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/trump-did-not-solve-the-north-korea-problem-in-singapore-in-fact-the-threat-has-only-grown/)** > > Rather than boasting of his wonderful relationship with Kim and declaring the problem solved, now is the time for Trump to refocus efforts on the specific steps North Korea urgently must take to show its seriousness to denuclearize. > **[The Costs of Misunderstanding Our Adversaries](https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-costs-of-misunderstanding-our-adversaries/)** > > The failure of so many of our policymakers to acknowledge that other states have legitimate interests and agency of their own leads us down the same dead-end road of confrontation and unnecessary conflict. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > If he is insulting anyone, it is the globalists. As I pointed in the other thread, global gangsters do love how they are stealing money from the people of the world and that guys like Trump want to get an America where they will also be safe to play their games. > **[Trump’s Russian Laundromat](https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate)** > > How to use Trump Tower and other luxury high-rises to clean dirty money, run an international crime syndicate, and propel a failed real estate developer into the White House. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > How has he complimented our enemies? [http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391770-trump-lavishes-kim-with-compliments-after-historic-summit](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391770-trump-lavishes-kim-with-compliments-after-historic-summit) > [@](#): > > Trump lavishes Kim with compliments after historic summit That is, failed historic summit. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > What secret did he give the Russians? > **[Israeli Intelligence Furious Over Trump’s Loose Lips](https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/19/israeli-intelligence-furious-over-trumps-loose-lips-russia-iran-syria/)** > > As the U.S. president heads to Israel for a show of unity, the country’s spies are alarmed at his disclosures to the Russians. > [@](#): > > But behind the public display of harmony, Israeli intelligence officers are angry and alarmed over the U.S. president revealing sensitive information in a May 10 meeting in the White House with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and the Russian ambassador to the United States, Sergey Kislyak. > > Trump divulged classified information gathered by Israel about specific terrorist plotting by the Islamic State. The information reportedly revealed Islamic State advances in bomb-making that could be used to mask an explosive device inside a laptop, and also referenced the city where the unfolding plot was being hatched. > > The details Trump spilled likely came from a source that was also useful on Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and its Hezbollah proxies in Syria and Lebanon, which are much higher priorities for Israel, the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said. > **[PM indirectly confirms Israel caused Trump intel leak to Russia](https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/PM-indirectly-confirms-Israel-was-source-of-Trump-intel-leak-to-Russia-533423)** > > Speaking to a conference of NATO ambassadors on Tuesday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu all but spelled it out. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > What are his lies? Hah! [Like if those are not piling up](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/08/01/president-trump-has-made-4229-false-or-misleading-claims-in-558-days/?utm_term=.1bab3ebbd6e4), But one should concentrate on his lies under oath (and those are many too): > **[Donald Trump's History of Lying Under Oath](https://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/26/mr-speaker-stop-trump-let-gop-lose-election-489797.html)** > > An open letter to Paul Ryan on why he must put party loyalty aside and condemn Donald Trump, who seems incapable of recognizing truth. > [@](#): > > His flexibility with numbers showed up later in the deposition, when confronted with public statements he had made about being paid $1 million to make a particular speech; he had received only $400,000—a huge sum that he still felt compelled to more than double. Well, Trump explained, the marketing he received in advertisements for the speech was worth so much to him that the amount of money he received was equal to $1 million. (Don’t try to understand that. It will make your brain melt.) > > Trump was later shown a letter he wrote to The Wall Street Journal, which mentioned two of “his” developments, including Trump Tower in Waikiki. Just like in the failed Florida project, Trump had simply sold his name to the developer. This time, though, the building was a success, so Trump claimed the Hawaiian development as his own. How? “It really is a form of ownership, because this is such a strong licensing agreement that I consider it to be a form of ownership,” he testified. That is hogwash; ownership entails a series of obligations and liabilities. Through the licensing agreement, Trump assumed none of those, with the exception of making sure the company building the project did not market it by claiming Trump was the developer. > > The rationalizations go on page after page in his depositions, Mr. Speaker, but you get the point. The man running as the Republican Party’s nominee for president is either a liar or—what I think is more likely—has no idea what the truth is and will say anything. > > Mr. Speaker, do not let your pride or party loyalty put us all at risk. As the most important Republican out there, you must condemn Trump and withdraw your endorsement of him. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > As far as I know, he never said “Nazis are good people”: cite please. > **[Trump Defends White-Nationalist Protesters: 'Some Very Fine People on Both...](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/trump-defends-white-nationalist-protesters-some-very-fine-people-on-both-sides/537012/)** > > The president backtracked from his remarks on Charlottesville just a day earlier. > [@](#): > > Trump Defends White-Nationalist Protesters: ‘Some Very Fine People on Both Sides’ BTW thanks to testimony obtained by Bob Woodward Trump apologized for that by claiming that he “denounced the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups.” only to say later that that apology/denounce was the “the biggest f\*\*\*ing mistake I’ve made”. Yeah, why look weak by apologizing and denouncing bad people? > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > He thinks people are motivated to say lies against someone else so prosecutors won’t throw the book at them for stuff they may never have done. That is why they got recordings of Trump and their henchmen. It is not only their word. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/145 "2018-09-09T16:20:27Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Specifics please: list things showing Trump is bad for America. The anonymous subject of this thread, presumably appointed by Trump, doesn’t seem sanguine about Trump’s “things.” Is he misinformed? A saboteur from the Deep State who snuck past the vetting? > [@pieceoftheuniverse](#): > > [Rex Tillerson](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/tillerson-s-fury-trump-required-intervention-pence-n806451): “moron” > [H.R. McMaster](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/sources-mcmaster-mocked-trumps-intelligence-in-a-private#.crrLeXm3E): “idiot,” “dope,” “kindergartner” > [John Kelly](https://www.nbc.com/nightly-news/video/nbc-nightly-news-apr-30-2018/3711433): “idiot” Tillerson, McMaster and Kelly, all appointed by Trump, don’t seem entirely confident about Trump’s genius. Does your vantage give you a better-informed impression of Trump than Kelly et al have? Were these quotes just invented by the Fake News media? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/146 "2018-09-09T16:21:00Z")
I know people smarter than me have already made these connections, but I find it interesting that parts of the Woodward book get released, Trump says it’s pure fiction. (GOP senators take it as true that Trump called Sessions “retarded.”) Then the opinion piece comes out and the WH says not that the things said are fiction, but that the person who wrote it should resign and that they are treasonous. Which seems an admission that they exist and are telling the truth about their actions. I recognize that Trump has never let consistency get in the way of a good pout, but when Woodward’s book comes out, will they attempt to pivot back to “it’s all made up”? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/147 "2018-09-09T16:52:00Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > From that cite: > The cite actually showed that Obama had mostly kids that traveled alone and those cages were a very temporary thing. Trump actually separated families as a policy and those cages are used more by Trump and for longer periods of time. > > Currently, Trump is defying court orders and continues to try and use loopholes to avoid complying with court orders regarding reuniting families of their incarceration. > > [Family separation: judge blocks Trump from deporting reunited families - Vox](https://www.vox.com/2018/8/17/17714918/children-separated-parents-deport-asylum) > Trump’s plan is coming and the picture is not pretty: > > The relaxation of pollution rules (By Trump) already in place does not lead one to assume that the situation is improving. > [Weakening Car Pollution Rules: This May Be Trump’s Dumbest Rollback Yet](https://www.nrdc.org/onearth/weakening-car-pollution-rules-may-be-trumps-dumbest-rollback-yet) > > Hah hah ha… [wipes tear] > > No. > > [Trump did not solve the North Korea problem in Singapore—in fact, the threat has only grown | Brookings](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/08/13/trump-did-not-solve-the-north-korea-problem-in-singapore-in-fact-the-threat-has-only-grown/) > > [https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-costs-of-misunderstanding-our-adversaries/](https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-costs-of-misunderstanding-our-adversaries/) > As I pointed in the other thread, global gangsters do love how they are stealing money from the people of the world and that guys like Trump want to get an America where they will also be safe to play their games. > > [Trump’s Russian Laundromat | The New Republic](https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate) > > [Trump lavishes Kim with compliments after historic summit | The Hill](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391770-trump-lavishes-kim-with-compliments-after-historic-summit) > > That is, failed historic summit. > [Israeli Intelligence Furious Over Trump’s Loose Lips – Foreign Policy](https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/19/israeli-intelligence-furious-over-trumps-loose-lips-russia-iran-syria/) > [PM indirectly confirms Israel was source of Trump intel leak to Russia - Israel News - The Jerusalem Post](https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/PM-indirectly-confirms-Israel-was-source-of-Trump-intel-leak-to-Russia-533423) > Hah! [Like if those are not piling up](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/08/01/president-trump-has-made-4229-false-or-misleading-claims-in-558-days/?utm_term=.1bab3ebbd6e4), But one should concentrate on his lies under oath (and those are many too): > [Donald Trump's History of Lying Under Oath](https://www.newsweek.com/mr-speaker-stop-trump-let-gop-lose-election-489797) > > [Trump Defends White-Nationalist Protesters: 'Some Very Fine People on Both Sides' - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/trump-defends-white-nationalist-protesters-some-very-fine-people-on-both-sides/537012/) > BTW thanks to testimony obtained by Bob Woodward Trump apologized for that by claiming that he “denounced the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups.” only to say later that that apology/denounce was the “the biggest f\*\*\*ing mistake I’ve made”. Yeah, why look weak by apologizing and denouncing bad people? > That is why they got recordings of Trump and their henchmen. It is not only their word. There is a lot to address here, much of it unfortunately embeded in quotes which are omitted in a reply copy. Trump’s border detention policy is similar ti past administrations. If a wall is built, this will all be moot. And the catch and release when children are present actually endangers children, who otherwise wouldn’t be taken on the dangerous crossing. It looks like Trump will succeed in denuclearizng North Korea, so criticizing the typical cordial compliments between meeting world leaders is absurd. This quote from your article shows you are twisting Trump’s words. It is absurd to call him a neo-Nazi supporter: 'I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me,” he said. “You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists,” Trump said. “The press has treated them absolutely unfairly.” “You also had some very fine people on both sides,” he said. And, finally, it sounds like Trump tried to help Russia stop terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/148 "2018-09-09T17:17:13Z")
0 > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > There is a lot to address here, much of it unfortunately embeded in quotes which are omitted in a reply copy. Trump’s border detention policy is similar ti past administrations. If a wall is built, this will all be moot. Nope, that is moot once one considers that most undocumented become that by overstaying their visas. The wall in reality will underfund other more effective methods to controll immigration. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > It looks like Trump will succeed in denuclearizng North Korea, so criticizing the typical cordial compliments between meeting world leaders is absurd. No evidence of this. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > This quote from your article shows you are twisting Trump’s words. It is absurd to call him a neo-Nazi supporter Sorry, but I already replied ahead of time to your claim of twisting his words, as he was reported to say, those statements you posted where part “of his worst mistake” ever. Meaning that what you quoted was indeed absurd, but an absurd apology/clarification from Trump. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > And, finally, it sounds like Trump tried to help Russia stop terrorists. This, like your previous silly Gish Gallop of a post, is not to point, the point was to show the evidence that indeed Trump did leak secrets. You were just ignorant of it, like with a lot of other things. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/149 "2018-09-09T20:49:16Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > There is a lot to address here, much of it unfortunately embeded in quotes which are omitted in a reply copy. Trump’s border detention policy is similar ti past administrations. If a wall is built, this will all be moot. And the catch and release when children are present actually endangers children, who otherwise wouldn’t be taken on the dangerous crossing. Where is that wall? And do you still think Mexico is going to pay for it? [url=[Transcript: The border wall call; Trump and Peña Nieto's conversation in full | Univision News | Univision](https://www.univision.com/univision-news/politics/transcript-the-border-wall-call-trump-and-pena-nietos-conversation-in-full)] Here is the transcript of the call between Trump and Nieto. Read it. There are some annotations in there of Trump’s lies - like saying he won New Hampshire when he didn’t. But the newsworthy piece is below - which I bet you don’t remember either. > [@](#): > > PEÑA NIETO: I fully agree that we should work together. And let me tell you that a lot of what is happening in terms of traffickers in Mexico is being largely supported by the illegal amounts of money and weapons coming from the United States. > > And this has led Mexico to fight against criminal gangs with the participation of the military and the entire army of Mexico. And this has taken many lives within the military and all the elements that are committed in this fight. But they are criminal groups that are well-armed, especially with weapons coming from the United States illegally into Mexico. I fully agree that both governments can work together to knock out and to do away fully with these criminal gangs. > > And on the other issue, Mr. President, on trade I think we are moving forward in a very positive fashion, especially through the dialogue both of our teams are holding. You have a very big mark on our back, Mr. President, regarding who pays for the wall. This is what I suggest, Mr. President – let us stop talking about the wall. I have recognized the right of any government to protect its borders as it deems necessary and convenient. But my position has been and will continue to be very firm saying that Mexico cannot pay for that wall. > > TRUMP: But you cannot say that to the press. The press is going to go with that and I cannot live with that. You cannot say that to the press because I cannot negotiate under those circumstances. > > PEÑA NIETO: I understand you well, Mr. President. I understand this critical point and I understand the critical political position that this constitutes for your country and for you, Mr. President. Let us look for a creative way to jump over this obstacle. It does not mean that this is not an important issue – this is an important issue. However, this is why we should walk on the path that we began, because when we start talking about the wall it prevents us from talking about other important issues that we must discuss. I clearly understand what this issue constitutes for you in the United States. And for Mexico, it is also an issue that goes beyond the economic situation because this is an issue related to the dignity of Mexico and goes to the national pride of my country. Let us for now stop talking about the wall. Let us look for a creative way to solve this issue, for this to serve both are your government, my government, and both of our societies. Let us leave this topic – let us put it aside and let us find a creative way of looking into this issue. And let us move forward on other issues that I think are positive for both of our countries. That would be my position, Mr. President. > > TRUMP: Okay, Enrique, that is fine and I think it is fair. I do not bring up the wall but when the press brings up the wall, I will say, “let us see how it is going – let us see how it is working out with Mexico.” Because from an economic issue, it is the least important thing we were talking about, but psychologically, it means something so let us just say “we will work it out.” And if you want to do that, then we will go back to the negotiation table with Jared and Luis. And I am sure they can work something out that is good for both nations, and obviously that would be a positive thing. Now, I don’t know if Trump was enough of a moron to think Mexico would pay for the wall, or if he was such a liar to say they would when he knew they wouldn’t, and assume that his idiotic supporters would believe him. As for the neo-Nazis, anyone happily marching with Nazis and KKKers is scum in my eyes. Trump only condemned them under duress, and you saw how he regretted doing so. Ditto for not condemning his KKK supporters. You know Trump gets the white supremacist vote, and depends on the racist vote. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/150 "2018-09-10T00:15:21Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > I really do think Trump is a genius. Hi, **Jim Peebles**! [Here is a less flattering view of Trump.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1cXUOekKLg) I hope you can spare the time to watch all 8 minutes and tell us your reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/151 "2018-09-10T00:29:15Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Where is that wall? And do you still think Mexico is going to pay for it? > > [url=[Transcript: The border wall call; Trump and Peña Nieto's conversation in full | Univision News | Univision](https://www.univision.com/univision-news/politics/transcript-the-border-wall-call-trump-and-pena-nietos-conversation-in-full)] Here is the transcript of the call between Trump and Nieto. Read it. There are some annotations in there of Trump’s lies - like saying he won New Hampshire when he didn’t. But the newsworthy piece is below - which I bet you don’t remember either. > > Now, I don’t know if Trump was enough of a moron to think Mexico would pay for the wall, or if he was such a liar to say they would when he knew they wouldn’t, and assume that his idiotic supporters would believe him. > > As for the neo-Nazis, anyone happily marching with Nazis and KKKers is scum in my eyes. Trump only condemned them under duress, and you saw how he regretted doing so. Ditto for not condemning his KKK supporters. You know Trump gets the white supremacist vote, and depends on the racist vote. No, Trump realized all recent presidents were puppets of the globalist elite. He ran as a republican, to fit into the false dichotomy of Republican vs democrat, which has really been a uniparty offering no real choice for a long time. His opponents have nothing to offer of substance, and so try to paint Trump and his supporters a racist, sexist, or whatever. Someone here tried to caricature the recent anti-globalist movement as antisemetic, linking it to a book from the early 1900s,which is bogus. Again, because the only play in their playbook is to demonize their opponents with false claims of bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/152 "2018-09-10T03:23:00Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > No, Trump realized all recent presidents were puppets of the globalist elite. You keep using that term, I don’t think you realize what you are reaching for: > **[Call it by its name: anti-Semitism](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/21/14685608/trump-anti-semitism-condemn)** > > Trump finally condemned violence against Jews in particular. That doesn’t let him off the hook for good. But, besides that, in ironic economical terms, the trade wars are more likely to turn people into voting against him and the Republicans. > **[Trump Entertains Economic Suicide to Tick Off the “Globalists”](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/03/trump-entertains-economic-suicide-to-tick-off-globalists)** > > The president is hopelessly ignorant when it comes to the train wreck he just set in motion, but knows what gets the base going. > [@](#): > > Trump Entertains Economic Suicide to Tick Off the “Globalists” > The president is hopelessly ignorant when it comes to the train wreck he just set in motion, but knows what gets the base going. > [@](#): > > So, basically, Trump decided to start a trade war because his base thinks “globalist” is the most insulting thing you can call a person, economic effects be damned. And now, the G.O.P. is worried that Trump’s ignorance will cost them the midterms, something they probably should have thought of when he announced his candidacy for president: > > > [@](#): > > > > Republicans plan to brag about the economy in midterm campaigns in hopes of countering Trump’s unpopularity, touting a strong stock market, low unemployment rate, and—most importantly—their increasingly popular tax legislation. But Trump’s suggestion Saturday that he might slap penalties on European cars, in addition to the tariffs on aluminum and steel he already promised, could upend that strategy completely, Republicans say. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > He ran as a republican, to fit into the false dichotomy of Republican vs democrat, which has really been a uniparty offering no real choice for a long time. Meh, in reality the system the founding fathers designed was IMHO designed to not be dependent on political parties. Extremism has been shoehorned in. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > His opponents have nothing to offer of substance, and so try to paint Trump and his supporters a racist, sexist, or whatever. **Ignorant** will suffice. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Someone here tried to caricature the recent anti-globalist movement as antisemetic, linking it to a book from the early 1900s,which is bogus. Again, because the only play in their playbook is to demonize their opponents with false claims of bigotry. Meh, seeing that your sources are inept at identifying good information to make a convincing argument, your say so here is silly too. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/153 "2018-09-10T04:42:31Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > No, Trump realized all recent presidents were puppets of the globalist elite. He ran as a republican, to fit into the false dichotomy of Republican vs democrat, which has really been a uniparty offering no real choice for a long time. His opponents have nothing to offer of substance, and so try to paint Trump and his supporters a racist, sexist, or whatever. Someone here tried to caricature the recent anti-globalist movement as antisemetic, linking it to a book from the early 1900s,which is bogus. Again, because the only play in their playbook is to demonize their opponents with false claims of bigotry. If you don’t think that Trump bragging about grabbing women isn’t sexist, if you don’t think Trump insulting women he doesn’t like as ugly isn’t sexist, I don’t know what to say. Actually I do, I can’t say it here. I never said that Trump was anti-semitic, at least not more than the base level that people who grew up when he did have. But he certainly accepts support from people who are actively anti-semitic. And he retweets racist tweets. Look it up. It is time for you to fact the pile of shit who you support head on. I used to be a conservative, and worked on the 1968 campaign. George Wallace who was running under his own stripes back then said “there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the Republicans and Democrats.” This was Humphrey and Nixon. If you are an extremist, no you don’t see the nuances of position. And if you are as ignorant as Trump, you also don’t see the differences. Here’s one example - do you think Trump has the slightest idea of what it would take to bring manufacturing back, and the impact on employment and cost? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/154 "2018-09-10T05:06:18Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > No, Trump realized all recent presidents were puppets of the globalist elite. Care to elaborate on this? What the fuck does this mean, exactly? And how doesn’t it apply to Trump, who colluded with a foreign power to get dirt on his political adversaries? I’m reminded of how Steve Bannon tried desperately to explain how Trump, DeVos, and Mnuchin weren’t “elites”, despite the fact that they’re all billionaires. It’s nonsense - DeVos in particular comes from family money and has produced nothing of value in her life - but for some reason, you can fool countless people into thinking that an executive branch that literally has a _5 billion dollar net worth increase_ over Obama is somehow less elite. These are buzzwords that mean _nothing_. Or maybe I’m wrong. Please, by all means, tell me - what the fuck does this mean? > [@](#): > > He ran as a republican, to fit into the false dichotomy of Republican vs democrat, which has really been a uniparty offering no real choice for a long time. :rolleyes: Are we just going through every cliche’d pro-Trump argument here? > [@](#): > > Again, because the only play in their playbook is to demonize their opponents with false claims of bigotry. We are? We are. Okay. Jesus, dude, if the only criticism of Trump you’ve heard is “he’s a bigot”, _you are not paying attention_. At all. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/155 "2018-09-10T13:13:03Z")
Any chance the general Trump discussion could get another thread? ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/156 "2018-09-10T17:52:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We don’t know what is actually motivating this guy, so it’s hard to say if he’s a coward or not. I would call him gravely mistaken at this point. He just made life miserable for most of his co-workers and will almost certainly end up making things worse rather than better. Trump has trust issues as it is, but he’ll trust no one now. It will be much, much more difficult to give him good advice. I’m guessing his / her motivation is more emotional than rational, more reactionary than strategic. Maybe they reached the tipping point. Fatigue and disgust won the day and they sat down and wrote the piece. Maybe they had written and deleted it numerous times before but this time they went thru with it. Maybe the McCain funeral gave them the sense that this piece would mark the final push toward critical mass. I’m betting the writer is now in a more relaxed state of mind knowing their days in the WH are numbered. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882/157 "2018-09-10T20:57:56Z")
> [@jacksen9](#): > > I’m guessing his / her motivation is more emotional than rational, more reactionary than strategic. Maybe they reached the tipping point. Fatigue and disgust won the day and they sat down and wrote the piece. Maybe they had written and deleted it numerous times before but this time they went thru with it. Maybe the McCain funeral gave them the sense that this piece would mark the final push toward critical mass. I’m betting the writer is now in a more relaxed state of mind knowing their days in the WH are numbered. I just got the weird felling that this is going to end like in some Agatha Christie crime novels, that in this case \*\*\*many writers \*\*\*are more relaxed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-coward/820882.md?page=7)