# Anonymous vs Drug Cartel in Mexico ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383 "2011-10-31T15:23:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/1 "2011-10-31T15:23:12Z")
I think this belongs in great debates but if not … please move it. Anyone else following this? Anyone else think this will only end badly … is there even a remote chance this has a happy ending. I can’t help but feel there are a lot of teenagers/20somethings behind the Anon threat that are about to experience a huge dose of reality. [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202\_162-20127697/anonymous-hackers-threaten-drug-cartel/](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-20127697/anonymous-hackers-threaten-drug-cartel/) v/r Oliveritaly ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/2 "2011-10-31T16:34:44Z")
> [@CBS Article](#): > > Stratfor, in its analysis of the video, said anyone exposed by Anonymous as a Zetas collaborator — accurately or not — would be targeted by rival gangs, and the Zetas could respond by attacking Internet activists even if they are not affiliated with Anonymous. This is why vigilanteism, while fun and exciting in fiction, is not a great idea in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/3 "2011-10-31T17:36:35Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > This is why vigilanteism, while fun and exciting in fiction, is not a great idea in reality. When the authorities are unable to keep the peace what else are their options? ---
**Author:** ![PacifistPorcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PacifistPorcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PacifistPorcupine)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/4 "2011-10-31T17:41:15Z")
> [@Oliveritaly](#): > > I can’t help but feel there are a lot of teenagers/20somethings behind the Anon threat that are about to experience a huge dose of reality. This was my first thought as well when I read the news. It is one thing to antagonize a corporation that mostly has to stay within the bounds of the laws of a first world country, this is a whole different ballgame. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/5 "2011-10-31T17:51:33Z")
This will get very ugly. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/6 "2011-10-31T17:58:49Z")
I am not sure why Anonymous thinks they have any leverage whatsoever. All releasing names would do is ruin the lives of people who have likely been forced or coerced into working for them. Then, the cartel will just buy off/threaten/coerce their new replacements. While I doubt the Zetas care enough to track down any members of anonymous outside of their sphere of influence, it’s just a bad move overall. Especially with the Zetas. The cartel was started by special forces members trained to kill. Do they really think that could threaten them? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/7 "2011-10-31T17:59:07Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > When the authorities are unable to keep the peace what else are their options? More bloodshed, apparently. I understand the very strong desire for justice, vengeance and retaliation, but it seems arrogance in this circumstance is going to bring down a world of hurt, and perhaps to people mistakenly affiliated with it. If you work outside the justice system, guilty _and_ innocent lives are likely to be destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/8 "2011-10-31T18:04:51Z")
While I don’t think the threat from Anonymous will have much effect, I don’t think they have anything to worry about either. The FBI has a hard enough time tracking down (non-script-kiddie) members of Anonymous. A cartel isn’t going to do much better. True, if Anonymous manages to stir up a shitstorm it’s possible that innocents will be caught in the crossfire. But that’s doesn’t seem to be something they’re very concerned about. As far as Anonymous is concerned, this is a low-risk tactic with a correspondingly low probability of success. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/9 "2011-10-31T18:11:26Z")
I think the kidnapped member they’re trying to free is going to be made an example of in a particularly gruesome way. And considering what the Zetas have done to date, that’s saying something. Sucks to be that guy. ---
**Author:** ![PacifistPorcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PacifistPorcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PacifistPorcupine)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/10 "2011-10-31T18:15:08Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > While I don’t think the threat from Anonymous will have much effect, I don’t think they have anything to worry about either. The FBI has a hard enough time tracking down (non-script-kiddie) members of Anonymous. A cartel isn’t going to do much better. True, if Anonymous manages to stir up a shitstorm it’s possible that innocents will be caught in the crossfire. But that’s doesn’t seem to be something they’re very concerned about. As far as Anonymous is concerned, this is a low-risk tactic with a correspondingly low probability of success. How are they even defining “success?” By releasing the names of a few cops, or some low level bureaucrats, or… taxi drivers? Let’s say they publish incontrovertible evidence that the governor of X or Y state is involved. So that guy gets thrown out. How incorruptible is the next guy going to be? “Plomo o plata” (literally, “lead or silver”, as in “we pay you money or we shoot you.”) still applies today. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/11 "2011-10-31T18:15:41Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > I think the kidnapped member they’re trying to free is going to be made an example of in a particularly gruesome way. And considering what the Zetas have done to date, that’s saying something. Sucks to be that guy. Yeah, I just posted something along these lines and went on to explain what else I thought the cartel might do. I then deleted it, lest one of those ideas would make it back to them. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/12 "2011-10-31T18:50:37Z")
> [@PacifistPorcupine](#): > > How are they even defining “success?” By releasing the names of a few cops, or some low level bureaucrats, or… taxi drivers? Let’s say they publish incontrovertible evidence that the governor of X or Y state is involved. So that guy gets thrown out. How incorruptible is the next guy going to be? “Plomo o plata” (literally, “lead or silver”, as in “we pay you money or we shoot you.”) still applies today. This in my opinion is spot on pacifistporcupine. They may well be able to expose some lower level officials/professionals that are, through no fault of their own involved but, so what? Those exposed are killed by rival gangs, magic happens and the kidnapped hacker is released? This thing, to me screams poorly thought out and/or under the influence of an extra large glass of youthful arrogance. Either way, I think there is a steep learning curve ahead for the members of anonymous … ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/13 "2011-11-01T01:42:00Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > While I don’t think the threat from Anonymous will have much effect, I don’t think they have anything to worry about either. The FBI has a hard enough time tracking down (non-script-kiddie) members of Anonymous. A cartel isn’t going to do much better. True, if Anonymous manages to stir up a shitstorm it’s possible that innocents will be caught in the crossfire. But that’s doesn’t seem to be something they’re very concerned about. As far as Anonymous is concerned, this is a low-risk tactic with a correspondingly low probability of success. Are you sure about that? If the story is true as presented by Anonymous then it would seem that they already have one member of Anonymous in their custody now. And now they know that’s who he is if they didn’t before. If he was in Mexico he must have friends or colleagues in Mexico. They all could all be answering questions under torture right now - who might be behind the threat? who is the guy in the video? What other Anonymous members are in Mexico? If cutting up a few casual associates with a chainsaw in front of him doesn’t encourage a free sharing of information, maybe they would just kill him and go after his friends or family for any information they have, maybe they would offer someone a huge amount of cash for just an IP address or snippet of information left in an internet cafe’s logs. The combination of an enthusiastic willingness to murder some and pay several years salary in tax free cash to others gives them a clear edge over the FBI in such an investigation. However, the story probably isn’t true as presented or understood by Anonymous. There are plenty of low level, street thugs and gangs that kidnap and rob and deal drugs and are not “the Zetas” They may well wind up paying extortion fees to the Zetas or another cartel so in a way the money from the crimes is going to them eventually, but they probably wouldn’t expend a lot of money time or risk on investigating this because the threat Anonymous is really making is against those low level thugs, not the cartels. That still might not be good news for their friend, no matter who kidnapped him. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/14 "2011-11-01T02:29:02Z")
How can a bunch of hackers find out who’s in a drug cartel, anyway? Do drug cartels do a lot of business online and keep databases of members? ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/15 "2011-11-01T03:09:27Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > How can a bunch of hackers find out who’s in a drug cartel, anyway? Do drug cartels do a lot of business online and keep databases of members? I bet now they’re rethinking the wisdom of having that “Meet our staff” section on the Drug Cartel homepage and Facebook account. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/16 "2011-11-01T04:16:22Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Are you sure about that? No. It is speculation. > [@](#): > > They all could all be answering questions under torture right now - who might be behind the threat? who is the guy in the video? What other Anonymous members are in Mexico? If cutting up a few casual associates with a chainsaw in front of him doesn’t encourage a free sharing of information, maybe they would just kill him and go after his friends or family for any information they have, maybe they would offer someone a huge amount of cash for just an IP address or snippet of information left in an internet cafe’s logs. Let’s say they do bribe / torture someone, somewhere, and manage to dig up an IP address or name. Ok. Now what? If it’s just down the street they can continue their game of bribey-torture. But if it’s in the Netherlands? Utah? The Czech Republic? How does that information in any way prevent Anonymous from releasing the names of alleged collaborators? I guess what gets to me is the idea expressed by some that Anonymous is suddenly in serious trouble due to their making some rash, juvenile threat. But their member was apparently _already kidnapped_. Their threat didn’t cause him to be kidnapped. I don’t think their threat has much teeth in it, but it costs them virtually nothing to make that threat. I don’t think a world of pain is going to be unleashed upon Anonymous in meat-space because of this threat. (With the exception of the member who was _already_ in trouble, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/17 "2011-11-01T04:23:06Z")
Hopefully like what some leftist revolutionaries have hoped against the “System” this will provoke a massive uprising by the Mexican people against the drug cartels and give them the taste of their own medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/18 "2011-11-01T04:34:37Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Let’s say they do bribe / torture someone, somewhere, and manage to dig up an IP address or name. Ok. Now what? If it’s just down the street they can continue their game of bribey-torture. But if it’s in the Netherlands? Utah? The Czech Republic? How does that information in any way prevent Anonymous from releasing the names of alleged collaborators? It depends on how damaging they would really be to the cartel’s bottom line. The Netherlands, Utah, and the Czech Republic all have drugs entering and money leaving. Don’t you think it takes corruption in those places too in order for the cartels to do business there? If it were important enough, like a billion dollars worth of important, I’m pretty sure they could reach someone in any of those places. > [@](#): > > I guess what gets to me is the idea expressed by some that Anonymous is suddenly in serious trouble due to their making some rash, juvenile threat. But their member was apparently _already kidnapped_. Their threat didn’t cause him to be kidnapped. I don’t think their threat has much teeth in it, but it costs them virtually nothing to make that threat. I don’t think a world of pain is going to be unleashed upon Anonymous in meat-space because of this threat. (With the exception of the member who was _already_ in trouble, of course.) I agree they probably aren’t in trouble, but that’s because they aren’t really going head to head with the cartels and the Zetas probably don’t really have or care about their friend. They are threatening to expose a bunch of low level criminals who themselves probably don’t have any ability to reach them, and the cartels won’t lose any real revenue if every single one of them is exposed. It all comes down to revenue, not pride or honor or making an example of someone - but just the cold bottom line. If it would cost them more to hunt them down than they would lose to just let it go they will probably just let it go. And their friend probably isn’t being held by Zetas anyway but rather some random group of bandits trying to get a quick ransom by claiming to be the Zetas, which happens frequently in areas where they do operate. ---
**Author:** ![palacheck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a88e57/32.png) [@palacheck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palacheck)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/19 "2011-11-01T04:46:31Z")
From what I’ve read about the HACK3R!!1 “group” Anonymous, this won’t amount to a hill of beans. Except for the “member” they kidnapped. He’ll be decapitated with a Dremel tool by tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383/20 "2011-11-01T12:09:13Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > No. > It is speculation. > Let’s say they do bribe / torture someone, somewhere, and manage to dig up an IP address or name. Ok. Now what? If it’s just down the street they can continue their game of bribey-torture. But if it’s in the Netherlands? Utah? The Czech Republic? How does that information in any way prevent Anonymous from releasing the names of alleged collaborators? > > I guess what gets to me is the idea expressed by some that Anonymous is suddenly in serious trouble due to their making some rash, juvenile threat. But their member was apparently _already kidnapped_. Their threat didn’t cause him to be kidnapped. I don’t think their threat has much teeth in it, but it costs them virtually nothing to make that threat. I don’t think a world of pain is going to be unleashed upon Anonymous in meat-space because of this threat. (With the exception of the member who was _already_ in trouble, of course.) I agree completely with this. Anonymous itself is safe enough; at least its members outside of Mexico are. How many basically innocent or at least forced to be complacent in the drug trade world are going to be killed before this is all over. As someone else said it’s low risk to the (non-kidnapped) members of Anonymous but it also has a low probability of success. My best guess is that a lot of low-level cartel folks are killed by rival gangs or by members of Zeta and the Anonymous member is made a very ugly example of … Some of the comments that go along with some of the news reports are absolutely insane, btw … “about time someone exposed these X/Y/Z’s for what they are” or “well if the government can’t deal with them it’s about time that someone like Anonymous does” … really, really crazy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anonymous-vs-drug-cartel-in-mexico/601383.md?page=2)