# Another Africa thread hijacked **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 1, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767 "2011-04-01T13:04:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/241 "2011-04-02T21:04:37Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I mean, if someone is posting, “The typical black people is mentally retarded and lacks the self-actualization to do anything worthwhile for the human race”, why should we censor ourselves by saying, “Hey. **Your post indicates that you hold a position that is similar to that of the Nazis, the Skinheads, and the KKK**. Are you aware of this, my gentle friend?” Instead of, “Hey. The position you just advanced is racist and not scientifically sound. Do you self-identify as a racist? Why or why not?” What I have highlighted is an example of the guilt by association fallacy. * * * Guilt by Association is a fallacy in which a person rejects a claim simply because it is pointed out that people she dislikes accept the claim. This sort of “reasoning” has the following form: It is pointed out that people person A does not like accept claim P. Therefore P is false It is clear that sort of “reasoning” is fallacious. For example the following is obviously a case of poor “reasoning”: “You think that 1+1=2. But, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Joseph Stalin, and Ted Bundy all believed that 1+1=2. So, you shouldn’t believe it.” [http://nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html](http://nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html) * * * I will not defend myself against the charge of being a racist because I believe that for too long the fear of being called a racist had inhibited a candid, and public discussion of serious social problems. Nevertheless, I do not believe that what I am racially - a white Gentile of north eastern European descent - is racial superior to Orientals and Ashkenazic Jews. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/242 "2011-04-02T21:10:59Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Nevertheless, I do not believe that what I am racially - a white Gentile of north eastern European descent - is racial superior to Orientals and Ashkenazic Jews. How many mighty…nah, too easy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/243 "2011-04-02T21:13:46Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > As far as calling someone a “racist” in GD, well, it’s a political term. Yes, it can be used as an insult, but since racism can be both an ideology and a behavior, I don’t see why people should keep that word out of GD discussion. When the shoe fits, it works. > > I mean, if someone is posting, “The typical black people is mentally retarded and lacks the self-actualization to do anything worthwhile for the human race”, why should we censor ourselves by saying, “Hey. Your post indicates that you hold a position that is similar to that of the Nazis, the Skinheads, and the KKK. Are you aware of this, my gentle friend?” Instead of, “Hey. The position you just advanced is racist and not scientifically sound. Do you self-identify as a racist? Why or why not?” Pointing out that a statement is consistent with racist statements from identifiable sources is permitted. So, up to the point where you ask whether the other poster is a racist, your statements would be permitted. I disagree with the claim that it is a “political term” as though that separates it from its insulting characteristics. It is always insulting and it is always intended as an insult. > [@monstro](#): > > Like I said, it can be used as an insult, or it can be an apt descriptor. If posters can refer to people off-board as racists (such as politicians), then I don’t see why it’s taboo to call out the blatant racism of other posters–and yes, assigning them with that label if it fits. It’s an adjective that should be no more taboo than “communist”, “free-market capitalist”, “radical”, “fundamentalist”, or “attention-whore.” If someone is posting something that is in the ballpark of racism, that’s juicy fodder for debate. Eliminating the word from our discourse halts that debate. The first four terms you mentioned are neutral descriptive terms, (aside from the weight that some people personally give them), that might be employed by posters regarding themselves. On the other hand, “attention whore” is a judgement call with a negative association that would also not be permitted in Great Debates when directed at another poster. The rule against insults against other posters is not intended to make GD appear to be a forum of all sweetness and light; we do permit insults against people who are not posting. It is intended to avoid having a thread in which posters wish to actually discuss the concepts involved be derailed by posters who are simply engaged in name calling of the “you’re a poopyhead” variety using harsher language. As I already pointed out: I am pretty sure that if we sifted through all of your posts, we could find positions that other posters found absurd or ludicrous or contemptible. We are not going to allow those posters to call you names, in GD, and we will not allow you to get away with such behavior either. ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/244 "2011-04-02T21:14:27Z")
Hmm? Which is it? You _are_ a racist – the views you continue to espouse, aside from being scientifically indefensible (as you have shown via your total failure at attempting to defend them in this thread) are textbook racism. So, at least own it. I mean, stand up, and admit that you are a racist. You’re saying racist things, consistently, over and over. You may as well admit that holding racist views makes you, in fact, a racist. That doesn’t mean your views are false (we come to that conclusion, again, by way of your total inability to defend them). Regardless of their veracity, though, they are in fact racist views, making you a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/245 "2011-04-02T21:16:49Z")
Oh, shit. Is it against the rules to call a racist a racist? I mean, when they’re engaged in textbook racism? If so, I apologize and retract my previous post. Pretend I said “flautist” instead of “racist”. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/246 "2011-04-02T21:21:17Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I do not believe that what I am racially - a white Gentile of north eastern European descent - is racial superior to Orientals and Ashkenazic Jews. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > How many mighty…nah, too easy. rac·ism (rszm) KEY NOUN: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. > **[Home : Yahoo Academy Learning Center](https://www.academy.yahooinc.com/student/catalog)** * * * By the following definition I am not a racist. I do not believe that race accounts for differences in human character and ability. I believe that genes are primarily responsible, although I also believe that these genes vary among the races, and cause different averages in intelligence and crime rates. Moreover, I do not believe that every member of one race is more worthy than every member of another race. Finally, I am opposed to discrimination on the basis of race, but I am in favor of discrimination on the basis of what correlates with race, such as intellectual performance and felony convictions, when that discrimination is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/247 "2011-04-02T21:28:14Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > > [@monstro](#): > > > > I mean, if someone is posting, “The typical black people is mentally retarded and lacks the self-actualization to do anything worthwhile for the human race”, why should we censor ourselves by saying, “Hey. **Your post indicates that you hold a position that is similar to that of the Nazis, the Skinheads, and the KKK**. Are you aware of this, my gentle friend?” Instead of, “Hey. The position you just advanced is racist and not scientifically sound. Do you self-identify as a racist? Why or why not?” > > What I have highlighted is an example of the guilt by association fallacy. > > * * * > > Guilt by Association is a fallacy in which a person rejects a claim simply because it is pointed out that people she dislikes accept the claim. This sort of “reasoning” has the following form: > > It is pointed out that people person A does not like accept claim P. > Therefore P is false > It is clear that sort of “reasoning” is fallacious. For example the following is obviously a case of poor “reasoning”: “You think that 1+1=2. But, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Joseph Stalin, and Ted Bundy all believed that 1+1=2. So, you shouldn’t believe it.” > > [http://nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html](http://nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html) Actually, in the sentence where your highlighting occurs, there is no fallacy. Simply pointing out that one’s statements are consistent with specific beliefs held by specific individuals does not engage in fallacy. Pointing out that connection might be a salutary wake-up call to a person who was simply repeating something he or she had “always heard” and the provenance of which were unaware. Drawing a conclusion from such a statement might tend closer to engaging in fallacy, or it might simply be shorthand to point out that the idea is silly. Your 1+1=2 example, is silly, since it is a concept shared by all people. Noting that somoene’s argument is identical to that of a known Conspiracy theorist and is held only by people favoring that Conspiracy Theory, however, provides the person addressed with the opportunity to demonstrate why their version is based on better logic than that of the CT nutcases, (or to declare their adherence to the same lack of facts and logic, obviating the need to refute the same nonsense for the thousandth time). ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/248 "2011-04-02T21:30:48Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > rac·ism (rszm) KEY > > NOUN: > > The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. > Discrimination or prejudice based on race. > > [Home : Yahoo Academy Learning Center](http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/racism) > > * * * > > By the following definition I am not a racist. I do not believe that race accounts for differences in human character and ability. I believe that genes are primarily responsible, although I also believe that these genes vary among the races, and cause different averages in intelligence and crime rates. > > Moreover, I do not believe that every member of one race is more worthy than every member of another race. > > Finally, I am opposed to discrimination on the basis of race, but I am in favor of discrimination on the basis of what correlates with race, such as intellectual performance and felony convictions, when that discrimination is relevant. You are interpreting that definition poorly, you fucking flautist. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/249 "2011-04-02T21:31:29Z")
> [@Rotlla](#): > > Oh, shit. Is it against the rules to call a racist a racist? I mean, when they’re engaged in textbook racism? Only outside the BBQ Pit. Here, you can call them whatever you want, (subject to the rules at the top of the forum). ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/250 "2011-04-02T21:32:47Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > It’s not fixed, not inherent,not genetic. And black Americans and Africans are not the same genetically. Especially considering some “black” Americans have the same amount of “white” ancestry as some “white” Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/251 "2011-04-02T21:34:05Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Actually that’s a population group. > > You’re trying maintain the viability of the failed concept of race by redefining it. Or a race. Here is the definition of race from biology online. > [@](#): > > Definition > > noun > > (1) A group or population of humans categorized on the basis of various sets of heritable characteristics (such as color of skin, eyes, and hair). > > (2) A descent from a common heritage, ancestor, breed or stock. > > (3) A tribe or family of people sharing a common breed or lineage. > > (4) A population of interbreeding species that develops distinct characteristics differing from other populations of the same species, especially as caused by geographical isolation. > **[Race - Definition and Examples - Biology Online Dictionary](https://www.biologyonline.com/dictionary/race)** > > Race in the largest biology dictionary online. Free learning resources for students covering all major areas of biology. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/252 "2011-04-02T21:39:54Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I disagree with the claim that it is a “political term” as though that separates it from its insulting characteristics. It is always insulting and it is always intended as an insult. It’s only insulting because it’s unpopular to be racist. The word itself is not a slur, though. Racism is an ideology. So is socialism, facism, libertarism, and capitalist. If a poster repeatedly expresses ideas that government is bad and needs to be overthrown whereever it arises, guess what? This poster is an arnachist. If a poster espouses that races differ one another based on innate abilities, guess what? This poster is a racist. It’s not that complicated. If they have a problem with being called a racist, when their ideas indeed match up word for word with racism, they need to ask themselves why they have a problem with being called a racist. Being in denial about it is stupid. And encouraging that denial by dancing around the right adjectives is ten times as stupid. This is what this board perpetuates on a daily basis. In many quarters, it’s unpopular to be gay. But that doesn’t mean “gay” is always a pejorative. Let’s be grown ups and embrace the English language. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/253 "2011-04-02T21:48:26Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It’s only insulting because it’s unpopular to be racist. The word itself is not a slur, though. > > Racism is an ideology. So is socialism, facism, libertarism, and capitalist. If a poster repeatedly expresses ideas that government is bad and needs to be overthrown whereever it arises, guess what? This poster is an arnachist. If a poster espouses that races differ one another based on innate abilities, guess what? This poster is a racist. It’s not that complicated. Just as many on the right call those on the left “socialist,” “Communist,” and/or “Marxist,” so many on the left think they win an argument by calling someone a “racist.” It does not matter is a statement is “racist.” What matters is whether it is true or not. The Bell Curve is not disproved by a book Stephen J. Gould wrote about it. It will be disproved when blacks perform and behave as well as whites. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/254 "2011-04-02T21:49:08Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That 55% number does reveal that indeed there is a lot of discussion on the subject and that is hardly a consensus, [aside] do you realize that experts on climate research agree with AGW by more than 90%? That is why we can talk about a consensus there and not here. > And this is also telling, the reality is that that 55% number is bound to be less due to the fact that most of the “great” books cited have lousy information on them. > > And since I already know that Jensen is dead wrong on the idea for the reasons why there is no official statement supporting him (It is not impossible in other sciences) I have to go for the consensus in this thread, there is controversy on this subject, but the conclusions and solutions to the issues made by the crackpots in this tread are even less supported. > [Should scientists study race and IQ? YES: The scientific truth must be pursued | Nature](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v457/n7231/full/457788a.html) 1. The comments of the people on here suggest that there is a consensus that average race differences in intelligence are nonsense. In fact, only 15% of the 661 surveyed considered group or race differences in intelligence to be due to environmental factors alone. So some people here need to revisit their priors. 2. I would recommend that you actually read some recent papers before saying people are ‘crackpots’. The June 2005 issue of Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, Vol. 11, No. 2 is a good starting point. [http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/](http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/255 "2011-04-02T21:51:11Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > By the following definition I am not a racist. I do not believe that race accounts for differences in human character and ability. Then what is this “skill” that I hear so much about that blacks do not have? > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I believe that genes are primarily responsible, That even the people in one of the books mentioned it could be from 40% and up. As the discussion in Nature showed, not many agree with this. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > although I also believe that these genes vary among the races, and cause different averages in intelligence and crime rates. Nope, no superiority here, no siree. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Moreover, I do not believe that every member of one race is more worthy than every member of another race. Except when you say so. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Finally, I am opposed to discrimination on the basis of race, but I am in favor of discrimination on the basis of what correlates with race, such as intellectual performance and felony convictions, when that discrimination is relevant. Thinking that the exudation of your biases would make them ok is really silly. I could say here that the solution you offer is useless and divisive, it does not matter what race you are, a criminal needs to be punished, but I have seen research that shows that the same crimes have different levels of punishment and incarceration rates for white people compared to blacks and other minorities, whites benefit more from that inequality. [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/weekinreview/07glater.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/weekinreview/07glater.html) The reality is that even the supporters of more research on intelligence and race know that they are not doing so well nowadays. [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v457/n7231/full/457788a.html](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v457/n7231/full/457788a.html) > [@](#): > > Watson’s first assertion could be read as scientifically supported: black Africans’ IQ scores are lower than those of white Europeans. But Watson’s use of ‘intelligence’ was interpreted as meaning ‘intrinsic cognitive ability’, ignoring how unfamiliarity with testing format, low quality of schooling, or poor health might depress IQ scores. There have been analyses showing average national IQs for sub-Saharan Africa to be approximately 30 points lower than average IQs for predominantly white European nations, and drawing a racial conclusion from those results1, 2. A refutation of these analyses would provide an opportunity to advance understanding. Sadly, **although these analyses can be refuted, as we and others have done** 3, most of those who scorned Watson never knew they existed. Well, we know that they exist and that is the current state of affairs, to claim that your ideas are based on science you are stretching what even the experts agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/256 "2011-04-02T21:52:29Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Just as many on the right call those on the left “socialist,” “Communist,” and/or “Marxist,” so many on the left think they win an argument by calling someone a “racist.” > > It does not matter is a statement is “racist.” What matters is whether it is true or not. The Bell Curve is not disproved by a book Stephen J. Gould wrote about it. It will be disproved when blacks perform and behave as well as whites. Having read both books, I can safely say that yes, Gould’s book did in fact disprove the Bell Curve. It’s a remarkably well-written book; one that a fucking flautist like you is doubtless incapable of appreciating. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/257 "2011-04-02T21:53:16Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > 1. The comments of the people on here suggest that there is a consensus that average race differences in intelligence are nonsense. In fact, only 15% of the 661 surveyed considered group or race differences in intelligence to be due to environmental factors alone. So some people here need to revisit their priors. > > 2. I would recommend that you actually read some recent papers before saying people are ‘crackpots’. The June 2005 issue of Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, Vol. 11, No. 2 is a good starting point. > > [http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/](http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/) You are missing the point you crackpot. It is not the research that reports IQ differences that I have a problem with, it is with the racists that use that research and employ it to propose solutions and platitudes that are not even supported by those researchers. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/258 "2011-04-02T21:54:13Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > By the following definition I am not a racist. I do not believe that race accounts for differences in human character and ability. I believe that genes are primarily responsible, although I also believe that these genes vary among the races, and cause different averages in intelligence and crime rates. Genes supposedly determine race, so you’re not saying anything useful by drawing a distinction between genes and race here. But why make defenses based on lousy loophole-based logic, anyway? I mean, to sit up here and say you don’t believe in discrimination based on race but rather “discrimination on the basis of what correlates with race” is a phenomenally cowardly attempt to dodge the “racist” label, don’t you think? (The last clause is rhetorical.) It’s funny though, so keep up the entertainment. To think that a grown man could be so afraid of being called a racist that he posts this kind of crap is fucking hilarious to me. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/259 "2011-04-02T21:58:20Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Genes supposedly determine race, so you’re not saying anything useful by drawing a distinction between genes and race here. > > But why make defenses based on lousy loophole-based logic, anyway? I mean, to sit up here and say you don’t believe in discrimination based on race but rather “discrimination on the basis of what correlates with race” is a phenomenally cowardly attempt to dodge the “racist” label, don’t you think? (The last clause is rhetorical.) > > It’s funny though, so keep up the entertainment. To think that a grown man could be so afraid of being called a racist that he posts this kind of crap is fucking hilarious to me. What I have said is that I do not care if anyone calls me a racist or not because I think the category lacks merit. I see myself as a genetic determinist. During the women’s liberation movement in the late 1960s and early 1970s there was a slogan, “Biology is not a woman’s destiny.” I believe biology is everyone’s destiny. It determines what we want to do, and what we are able to do. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/260 "2011-04-02T22:04:31Z")
> [@Rotlla](#): > > Having read both books, I can safely say that yes, Gould’s book did in fact disprove the Bell Curve. It’s a remarkably well-written book; one that a fucking flautist like you is doubtless incapable of appreciating. Just because Gould’s book tells you what you want to believe does not mean that it disproves The Bell Curve. Gould cannot explain why everywhere in the world and always throughout history blacks have been characterized by inferior intelligence. Charles Murray can and does. The assertions of The Bell Curve are not counter intuitive. Charles Murray explains what nearly everyone knows to be true, and his explanations are plausible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767.md?page=14)