# Another Africa thread hijacked **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 1, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767 "2011-04-01T13:04:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/341 "2011-04-03T12:09:06Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Poster A can say all day: > Black people are too stupid for self rule, women need to know their place, and homosexuals are all pedophiles. > > Poster B cannot say: > Poster A is a racist/sexist/homophobe; Poster A’s views are racist/sexist/homophobic. What if poster A presents well documented facts that demonstrate that blacks everywhere in the world tend to be less intelligent than whites, and that they have never created a black majority government and economy that was well run? What if poster A demonstrates that women tend to have less mathematical aptitude than men, and that they tend to be more emotional and less sexually voracious? What if poster A points out that 85 percent of the victims of priestly pedophiles are boys, and uses this, and other facts, to argue that homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles than are heterosexuals? In that case, shouting insults at poster A will not disprove his arguments. It will substantiate them, because it will demonstrate that poster B cannot refute them rationally. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/342 "2011-04-03T12:38:22Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > So for the sake of peace, you’re willing to let racists say completely horrible, insulting things about huge swathes of humanity, while anyone who wants to call that behavior by its proper name is hamstrung because the name is too insulting for delicate sensibilities. To put it in more specific terms: > > Poster A can say all day: > Black people are too stupid for self rule, women need to know their place, and homosexuals are all pedophiles. > > Poster B cannot say: > Poster A is a racist/sexist/homophobe; Poster A’s views are racist/sexist/homophobic. > > Do I have that right? If I do, then I believe this is a despicable rule. For the sake of peace you’re willing to let the most vile insulting shit spew forth from the mouths of certain posters while the decent people who are affected personally or viscerally by the insults aren’t even allowed the satisfaction in debate of calling that shit exactly what it is. You allow the shitheels free rein and force the decent people to shut their mouths or go elsewhere, all the in name of politeness and “open debate”. Can you not see the difference betwen the two statements? Poster A made a broad claim that can be refuted by facts. Poster B simply hurled insults at Poster A. Poster B is permitted to demonstrate that Poster A is wrong without resorting to name-calling. As I noted in an earlier post, (possibly a different thread), there are dozens of positions held by the vast majority of posters that a large number of other posters consider stupid, ludicrous, or contemptible. If everyone who felt that any other poster could be called names, “because that’s what s/he is” then every thread would degenerate into name-calling. WQe already have The BBQ Pit for that. GD is for people who want to discuss, (or challnege or refute), the ideas of other people without the name-calling. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/343 "2011-04-03T12:46:05Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Can you not see the difference betwen the two statements? Poster A made a broad claim that can be refuted by facts. > Poster B simply hurled insults at Poster A. > Poster B is permitted to demonstrate that Poster A is wrong without resorting to name-calling. > > As I noted in an earlier post, (possibly a different thread), there are dozens of positions held by the vast majority of posters that a large number of other posters consider stupid, ludicrous, or contemptible. If everyone who felt that any other poster could be called names, “because that’s what s/he is” then every thread would degenerate into name-calling. WQe already have The BBQ Pit for that. GD is for people who want to discuss, (or challnege or refute), the ideas of other people without the name-calling. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/344 "2011-04-03T13:25:58Z")
What I dislike about the use of the word “racist” is that definitions are too broad to be very useful. An adjective and a noun that can be used for Charles Murray, or a member of the Klu Klux Klan or the American Nazi Party who burns down black churches is worthless as a descriptive term. It is only a weapon, and not a precise one. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/345 "2011-04-03T13:47:54Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > What I dislike about the use of the word “racist” is that definitions are too broad to be very useful. An adjective and a noun that can be used for Charles Murray, or a member of the Klu Klux Klan or the American Nazi Party who burns down black churches is worthless as a descriptive term. It is only a weapon, and not a precise one. No. It’s a precise one. Racist = idiot who believes (often vehemently) in the existence/predictive nature of 18th century race theories. see nutjob. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/346 "2011-04-03T13:51:47Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > What I dislike about the use of the word “racist” is that definitions are too broad to be very useful. An adjective and a noun that can be used for Charles Murray, or a member of the Klu Klux Klan or the American Nazi Party who burns down black churches is worthless as a descriptive term. It is only a weapon, and not a precise one. It is not a worthless descriptor for you, though. How it can be a weapon, praytell? No one has censored your bullshit–you’ve actually been given two platforms. Racists abound in this society, and the sad thing is that they can hide behind the “racism is hard to define” myth to try to portray themselves as something other than what they are. But you, sir, are a racist. And not only a racist, but a stupid racist. That’s the worse kind. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/347 "2011-04-03T14:13:40Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It is not a worthless descriptor for you, though. > > How it can be a weapon, praytell? No one has censored your bullshit–you’ve actually been given two platforms. Racists abound in this society, and the sad thing is that they can hide behind the “racism is hard to define” myth to try to portray themselves as something other than what they are. But you, sir, are a racist. And not only a racist, but a stupid racist. That’s the worse kind. It is easier to say, “You are stupid,” than to demonstrate it. You have not refuted any of my arguments. Your name calling indicates that you cannot. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/348 "2011-04-03T14:16:38Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > No. It’s a precise one. Racist = idiot who believes (often vehemently) in the existence/predictive nature of 18th century race theories. see nutjob. 😃 That the races differ in terms of average personality, character, and aptitude is becoming increasingly obvious. The failure of No Child Left Behind is providing fresh evidence of innate racial differences in intelligence. The discovery of genes for intelligence and crime will end the argument. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/349 "2011-04-03T14:26:41Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > That the races differ in terms of average personality, character, and aptitude is becoming increasingly obvious. The failure of No Child Left Behind is providing fresh evidence of innate racial differences in intelligence. The discovery of genes for intelligence and crime will end the argument. However, it doesn’t seem obvious to the modern scientific community.[ > [@](#): > > Historical research has shown that the idea of “race” has always carried more meanings than mere physical differences; indeed, **physical variations in the human species have no meaning except the social ones that humans put on them**. Today scholars in many fields argue that “race” as it is understood in the United States of America was a social mechanism invented during the 18th century to refer to those populations brought together in colonial America: the English and other European settlers, the conquered Indian peoples, and those peoples of Africa brought in to provide slave labor. (snip) > > How people have been accepted and treated within the context of a given society or culture has a direct impact on how they perform in that society. **The “racial” worldview was invented to assign some groups to perpetual low status, while others were permitted access to privilege, power, and wealth.** The tragedy in the United States has been that the policies and practices stemming from this worldview succeeded all too well in constructing unequal populations among Europeans, Native Americans, and peoples of African descent. _Given what we know about the capacity of normal humans to achieve and function within any culture,_ we conclude that present-day inequalities between so-called “racial” groups are not consequences of their biological inheritance but products of historical and contemporary social, economic, educational, and political circumstances. ]([http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm](http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm))You are (tirelessly) dedicated to an 18th century lie. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/350 "2011-04-03T14:30:59Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > However, it doesn’t seem obvious to the modern scientific community.[URL=“[http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm](http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm)”]You are (tirelessly) dedicated to an 18th century lie. You are tirelessly dedicated to the lies of political correctness. All you need to prove me wrong is to prove that blacks behave and perform as well as whites. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/351 "2011-04-03T15:43:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It really bothers me that the wrong person is leaving. Ha! **Chief** is soooo not leaving. I’ll give him a couple weeks tops before he’s back again to regale us with his pet theories about the NBA and MCAT scores. He’s addicted to talking about blacks and their inferior intelligence, and he likes to do it here because there’s always someone who will take up his bait and treat him as though he’s actually an open-minded debator instead of a True Believer–with racism serving as the religion and The Bell Curve as the bible. The only way he’ll stop is if some loved ones of his (assuming he has any) throw an intervention for him. And I’m not kidding when I say this. Scientific racism is his crack. **NDD** and **Chen** are his fellow crackheads. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/352 "2011-04-03T17:26:28Z")
Question for NDD: how did large scale rice farming originate in colonial America? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/353 "2011-04-03T17:28:13Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > It is easier to say, “You are stupid,” than to demonstrate it. You have not refuted any of my arguments. Your name calling indicates that you cannot. Oh I think we established that you are stupid just by showing all how inept you were at following or reading cites that were already posted, and then you compounded that stupidity with your demonstrated pigheadedness of not admitting that you where wrong on even such a small issue. It is just gravy that the article from Nature - that you cowardly avoided dealing with - , regarding the pro side to continue investigating connections with intelligence and human conditions, showed all how unsupported your say so’s are in academia. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/354 "2011-04-03T18:50:48Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Ha! **Chief** is soooo not leaving. I’ll give him a couple weeks tops before he’s back again to regale us with his pet theories about the NBA and MCAT scores. He’s addicted to talking about blacks and their inferior intelligence, and he likes to do it here because there’s always someone who will take up his bait and treat him as though he’s actually an open-minded debator instead of a True Believer–with racism serving as the religion and The Bell Curve as the bible. > > The only way he’ll stop is if some loved ones of his (assuming he has any) throw an intervention for him. And I’m not kidding when I say this. Scientific racism is his crack. **NDD** and **Chen** are his fellow crackheads. Do you think the same is true of Gigobuster and global warming? Also, why do you think he’s “addicted” to his “pet theories” instead of just being a guy who’s read the studies and doesn’t automatically dismiss them for being “racist”? That is, what specific facts allow you to distinguish one group from the other? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/355 "2011-04-03T19:16:32Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Do you think the same is true of Gigobuster and global warming? If you had bothered to read what I posted, there was a lot that I didn’t know about the state of affairs regarding the levels of acceptance of the “science” (actually the trash that NDD gets from the research) that NDD claims to follow. There was no need to become an expert of Climate Change, the reason why you think I obsess with it is just because there is an unfortunate correlation with conservatives denying the science (and unnecessary link as the evidence shows), the reality is that many of the deniers of climate science, like the most notorious sources of the “scientific” racists, also rely on publishing books instead of publishing scientific papers. It then follows that there is a mountain of evidence, published papers and expert blogs that do the work for me. Now, getting back to the current subject, I see that the consensus on this intelligence and race subject is a mixed one, and there are no in pro official positions by the mayor orgs involved on this issue; however, I can see that the trend is towards counteracting most of the conclusions that NDD gets from controversial research, it is clear that you will see me more often in discussions like this, when science is in favor of something and I notice fools misusing it, I’m there. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, why do you think he’s “addicted” to his “pet theories” instead of just being a guy who’s read the studies and doesn’t automatically dismiss them for being “racist”? That is, what specific facts allow you to distinguish one group from the other? As it is clear you are missing it, my main point is that the research is not the problem, **it is what racists and crackpots conclude and propose to do about it**. It is indeed following crackpottery when the efforts of the fools are to twist the research to support stupid solutions, an effort that most of the researchers that continue doing the controversial research clearly do not support as demonstrated when there are no citations from the researchers that crackpots claim to follow showing that they (the researchers) approve of the solutions that the crackpots propose. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/356 "2011-04-03T20:44:47Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Do you think the same is true of Gigobuster and global warming? I have no idea, but it’s interesting that you want to know my opinion on global warming and **GIGObuster** all of the sudden. Like WTF? Am I that interesting to you? > [@](#): > > Also, why do you think he’s “addicted” to his “pet theories” instead of just being a guy who’s read the studies and doesn’t automatically dismiss them for being “racist”? Stop making this more difficult than necessary. He’s addicted to the subject because he’s the epitome of a one trick pony. **Chen** and **NDD** even more so, but **Chief** has been around longer, so his behavioral patterns are that much more hackneyed and repetitious (and entertaining in a sideshow type of way). Black intellectual inferiority is the only subject he can talk about at length, with any amount of passion. He’s probably reading what I’m typing now, going purple in the face because he wants to respond in classic form but won’t because he’ll lose face given his dramatic donkey-story farewell last night. ---
**Author:** ![random6x7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@random6x7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/random6x7)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/357 "2011-04-03T21:18:38Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > 1. Is Christopher Chabris a racist? [http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~cfc/Chabris1998a.html](http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~cfc/Chabris1998a.html) Well, yeah. You read my comment. We’re all racist, at least to some degree. However, that article doesn’t prove or disprove it. You may be shocked, but I actually agree with much of what he said! More below! > [@](#): > > 1. The fact you’re talking about one gene for intelligence suggests you haven’t read anything on the topic. Research by the likes of Robert Plomin suggests there are likely to be hundreds, possibly thousands of genes of small effect involved. Uh, yeah, that was the point of what I was saying. Intelligence is an incredibly complicated trait that is not easily reducible to “It’s genetics!”. It undoubtedly has a genetic component, just as any human behavior probably does. However, our genes are not our destiny. Human behavior is, as I’ve said many times before, incredibly plastic. Environment and culture both affect our development. I don’t see why it’s so difficult to see that a trait like intelligence, which is so complex, has a very important cultural element. I mean, that Chabris article even points to some of the studies that I’d’ve mentioned. Yeah, these are looking at short-term changes that he dismisses as “test anxiety”. However, minorities and women are constantly reminded of our Other status. How does that affect us? Moreover, how does a lifetime of poverty, with its lower nutritional status and lessened access to educational materials, affect a complicated trait like intelligence? It sure as hell affects something as simple as height. Finally, you are dismissing the notion that there are more kinds of intelligence than just the IQ test kind. Yeah, I get what Chabris was saying about general intelligence, but that can be expressed in numerous ways, some of which simply are not tested by the standard IQ tests, which, again, are culture-bound. You will not do well on a Maori-approved test, no matter how smart you are, unless you are well-versed in Maori culture. Again, Chabris and I don’t disagree on many things, but I see this as a cultural phenomenon. And that’s what I get pissed about. If we’re ever going to have honest discussions about human differences, you guys are going to have to get over your assumptions. Culture is important. Cultural context is important. History is friggin’ important. Denial of that is, quite frankly, short-sighted and dumb. It’s that denial that makes me think you are less interested in science (which recognizes cultural and historical contexts!) and more interested in preserving the status quo. > [@](#): > > The simplest model would be that time since development of agriculture varies between groups, and this variation leads to different levels of selection for traits which might be useful for agriculturalists. There is some data on this here. > > [Information Processing: Recent evolution in humans](http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/12/recent-natural-selection-in-humans.html) Well, duh. I just had a big ol’ bowl of cereal with milk. I have to adjust to the high altitude of where I live now after leaving for a couple of weeks, while my Peruvian friend doesn’t. Why do agriculturalists require more intelligence than hunter-gatherers, though? Granted, h-gs had a much easier life, day-to-day choreswise, than the agriculturalists did. However, it wasn’t exactly the Garden of Eden. You need to know a hell of a lot to survive in the wild. Plus, h-gs are at least as social, if not more so, than agriculturalists, which is the number one trait that’s heavily correlated with intelligence in primates. I want some actual data here, please, and not just IQ test, which we’ve already seen are flawed and culture-bound. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/358 "2011-04-03T21:53:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, we don’t. All we have to do is cite that these people’s theories are considered crackpot theories amongst professionals. There were smart scientists who opposed Einstein’s theory of relativity. There still are some today, but we non-scientists only have to point out that most scientists say they are wrong. > > You know, I don’t find Chief Pedant’s theories offensive, except when he brings them up in places where they don’t belong. I have no problem with genetics playing a factor in intelligence, and different environmental pressures having shaped natural selection so that various groups of people are naturally more or less intelligent than others. Races do loosely correlate with ethnic ancestry, so it’s possible that, as unscientific as race is, there may be significant differences in intelligence in racial groups due to genetics. (The only problem is when you correlate it to the U.S., where we have racial mixing, which should override the original evolution pretty quickly.) > > The thing is, he admits that it’s just a wild theory, that isn’t considered correct by most people, and that he doesn’t actually have any proof. For him it is a hypothesis. The only times I find it offensive is when he forgets and acts like it’s established fact. > > You, NDD, treat the entire thing like established fact. You’ve admitted that you only keep harping on this because it riles people up. You disregard any cites that disagree with you as people intentionally trying to cover up the truth. You enjoy making people angry. You are a conspiracy-theorist race troll. > > It really bothers me that the wrong person is leaving. **Big T** , Are you aware of the survey by Mark Snyderman & Stanley Rothman of 661 professionals? 45% agreed that b-w psychometric **disparities are due to environmental & genetic variation**. Only 15% agreed it was solely due to environmental factors. So, three times as many were prepared to accept the Jensen/Murray/Herrnstein view compared to the Kamin/Gould view. > **[The IQ Controversy, the Media and Public Policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_IQ_Controversy,_the_Media_and_Public_Policy_(book))** > > The IQ Controversy, the Media and Public Policy is a book published by Smith College professor emeritus Stanley Rothman and Harvard researcher Mark Snyderman in 1988. Claiming to document liberal bias in media coverage of scientific findings regarding intelligence quotient (IQ), the book builds on a survey of the opinions of hundreds of North American psychologists, sociologists and educationalists conducted by the authors in 1984. The book also includes an analysis of the reporting on intelligen... ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/359 "2011-04-03T21:58:31Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > **Big T** , > > Are you aware of the survey by Mark Snyderman & Stanley Rothman of 661 professionals? 45% agreed that b-w psychometric **disparities are due to environmental & genetic variation**. Only 15% agreed it was solely due to environmental factors. > > So, three times as many were prepared to accept the Jensen/Murray/Herrnstein view compared to the Kamin/Gould view. > > [The IQ Controversy, the Media and Public Policy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_IQ_Controversy,_the_Media_and_Public_Policy_(book)) And that was published on 1988, I would go for the view from the Nature article and the reports from **random6x7** , the situation has changed a lot. ---
**Author:** ![random6x7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@random6x7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/random6x7)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767/360 "2011-04-03T22:18:09Z")
The nature/nurture debate does rage on in science as a whole, but I’d be really surprised if more than a minority was solely on one side or another. Biological determinism is just not feasible, any more than some tabula rasa kind of view of humans. Frankly, the kind of crap you get in the popular press is not what makes it into reputable journals. I have all kinds of theories about that, because I am a navel-gazing former philosophy major, but the truth is, the more you learn about the science, the more you realize how little anyone knows for sure. Anyone who says anything but “human behavior is a mix of biology and culture” is talking out of their ass, and anyone who talks about race as if it has objective meaning is about fifty years behind the times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-africa-thread-hijacked/576767.md?page=19)