Trolling minty?
I am with Sam on this.
You can’t say that everything is a conspiracy theory that has not been preeched in the church last Sunday.
I give here an example of a real conciracy theory, but look carefully, how many “good publications” are involved:
WARNING: Concpiracy theory coming up!!
http://www.unansweredquestions.org/background_44.php
Look at the cites they produced as evidence!
For me it is amazing!
I defend Sam in this way, that I think we should always debate if some “mysterious/not in the earlier line of truths” happens or is published.
If it will be proven to be not so important, which I do not think is the case here, we will see that through the debate.
That is what the debates are for.
No loosers if we get more facts. Even a “later proven non-issue” is a piece of knowledge.
We are, I hope, not here to “win” a debate. We are here to take our straws to it, and later learning from a more “whole picture.”
The Mecca may be the heart of Islam, but the Saudis are widely disliked, when not hated, in the Arab world. So, it’s not like picking on them could alienate many Arabs.
Dunno. But I read an article on this issue, and honnestly, the whole thing is pretty unclear. From what is known, it’s very difficult to come to any conclusion or even guess about who intended to fund the terrorists or even to guess if anybody actually intended to fund them. The “facts” known seem very tenuous to me…
Plus, there are already so much informations out there about the Saudis that I think this one is a drop in an ocean…
Not at all. Satire, m’boy. Since we barely have any idea of what’s going on at all, there is no way we can reach any reasonable conclusion broader than “Ooooh, what a naughty princess.”
You’ve been hanging around GD long enough to know the answer.
If the Saudi government wanted to fund terrorists they could do it much less conspicously than paying money into their familys’ bank-accounts. And they would hardly use the bank-account of the wife of the Saudi ambassasdor to make the payment.
It seems much likelier that this was just a case of a royal helping out Saudi students without knowing that they were involved in terrorism. Certainly that seems a reasonable base assumption until more evidence turns up.
As for the 15/17 terrorists statistic that is repeated like a mantra it doesn’t indicate much really since they were hardly a random sample but people handpicked by Bin Laden and co. 15 is not that large a number and there are probably several Muslim countries where you could get that many volunteers for a suicide mission. If Al Queda had wanted to they could probably have picked 15 Egyptians,say, for the mission. There has been speculation that they choose Saudis precisely to damage the relationship between the US and Saudi Arabia.
There are plenty of things to criticize about Saudi Arabia but I really do wish the Saudi-bashers would grow up and stop going into hysterics every time some new piece information pops up about the Saudis.
Iraq is saying all along that Saudi Arabia is an enemy of the US, not them. This is more proof.
I’m not sure it’ll make much difference. Let’s say the House of Saud falls and is replaced by a fundamentalist regime, so what?
Saudi is already a strict fundamentalist society so there’ll be no real change in people’s everyday lives.
As regards the oil, they’re still going to need to sell it - even a strict fundamentalist regime needs money. But who are they going to sell to? Has to be the US since the US is the biggest buyer.
So in the end everything will be much the same as it is now (except there’ll be a different boss in charge in Riyadh).
The new regime won’t want to upset America too much for the same reasons the House of Saud try to keep America sweet:
-
they need the oil money and
-
if they get uppity in any way, America will just invade to replace the government.
If anything, having a strict religious government in charge makes it easier for the US to move in “to protect the oil fields”.
The last thing I saw on this was in the Sunday paper, a Washington Post distributed story. According to that story the Princess, the wife of the Saudi ambassador to the US, had given some undisclosed amount of money to “A”, an Arab name that means nothing to me, to help with medical expenses. “A” in turn gave some money to, or knew, I’m not sure which it is, “B”, another Arab name. “B” knew two of the guys who were involved it the September 11, 2001, highjackings and may have given them some money. That is the story as far as I understand it. This is a long ways from saying that a Saudi princess funded the highjackers. We can speculate all we want about what information may or may not exist or be secretly known by someone who is not telling us, but what we have so far is a pig. We can put it in a calico dress and call it Florence but it is still a pig.
There is something going on here that is fairly disturbing. I see and eagerness to condemn the Ibin Saud Family as the facilitators of terrorism on the flimsiest of evidence. I suspect that there is something behind this. Who, I ask myself, would benefit if the Saudi Royal Family lost US support and good will? Who could possibly make money or gain power and prestige if Arabia fell into chaos and there was no central government to look after all that oil? Who, who, I ask would be willing to take up all that oil and care for it? It would be a thankless job but someone would have to do it. But who, oh, who would be willing to do it?
Good point…Spavined…
Who would would benefit for the downfall of the Saudi Royal family? If OBL wanted to drive a wedge between the US and the Saudis he sure did a good job. His original demand was to get US troups out of the country. Then he jumped on the Palestine_Israli conflict to stir up more support for him with the Arab World.
The Bin Laden family made all its money from contracts building roads(funded by the oil money=Royal Family) mosques(funded by Royal family=oill money). They have benefited directly with a close affiliation.
So, the reason OBL orchestrated the 9/11 bombings was to engineer the downfall of the Saudi royal family and also to get revenge on his own family for…what, exactly?
And, um, why would he want the Saudi royal family “downfall”? I feel like I missed a few episodes of “As The Conspiracy Theory Turns” there.
Besides Exxon? Oh, quite a few people–Sony, McDonalds, Playboy Enterprises, 20th Century Fox, the American Bar Association…
With the repressive Saudi regime out of the way, the people of Saudi Arabia would be free to live like normal human beings, playing video games and going to the movies, buying dirty magazines, eating at McDonalds, and suing the purveyors of all these fine consumer goods.
But I like Exxon for the 9/11 bombings myself. I never have really trusted them since they made all the Standard gas stations change their name. And they’re using an endangered species for product branding. “Put a tiger in your tank…” Is that sinister or what?
Now all we need is Halle Berry mostly naked on a tigerskin rug, and our scenario will be complete.
“So, the reason OBL orchestrated the 9/11 bombings was to engineer the downfall of the Saudi royal family and also to get revenge on his own family for…what, exactly?”
Not necessarily the reason for 9-11 but the reason for him picking Saudis for the job. It’s well known that OBL hates the Saud Royal family because they allowed US troops on Saudi soil during the Gulf War betraying what he considers Islamic principles… One of his long-run aims is probably to topple the Saud family and set up an anti-American regime which kicks the American soldiers out.
Your rather lame attempt at sarcasm would work better if you actually knew what you were talking about. Are you under the impression that OBL is on friendly terms with the Saud family?
Oh and you seem to under the impression that the Saudis don’t allow Western consumer goods; actually they are rolling in them; what do you think they spend all that money on?
The Point is that OBL want the US (all Westerners for that matter) out of Saudi Arabia. He hates the Royals because they asked the US for help and the US sent troups. Using Saudi nationals on the planes that were highjacked was an attempt to alienate the two countries. It worked to some extent because of the feeding frenzy happening on the Sunday news shows concerning Princess Haifa Al Faizal( the daughter of King Faizal who happened to be a somewhat progressive leader in the House of Saud and was murdered because of it)
There is no doubt in my mind that certain factions in Saudi Arabia funnel monies to Al Qaidia AROUND the world, but it isn’t coming from the Royal family which equals the government, because Al Qaidia wants the distruction of the Royals!
Why take that on faith when you could investigate and find out for sure ? Either one of these theories might be true. The two share a common property that something is going on in Saudi Arabia that it would be to our advantage to know about. Is crying conspiracy and getting offended over speculation really more important than finding out what the facts are, even at this late date ?
Please, by all means launch an investigation, Squink. I eagerly await your results. Beats the hell out of pulling stuff out of our asses.
Um, sorry, but I don’t see your “well known” backed up by any kind of reputable cite. Lots of theories, though.
Lots and lots of theories. Most of them quoting this article by Paul Wihbey, whose personal theory is…
http://www.israeleconomy.org/strategic/pmwbinladen.htm
I’d be truly interested in seeing a cite from, say, the CIA, or the FBI, or the DoD, as to OBL’s actual–proven–motive for 9/11. I was under the impression that it was just generally “I Hate America”. It’s silly of me, I know, to believe everything CNN tells me.
Yeah, this is why they confiscate half your luggage at the airport.
http://www.middleeastvacationguide.com/travel/SaudiArabia_Overview.html
So there ya go, the real evil genius behind 9/11 was a coalition of Christie Hefner, Wal-Mart, and Conde Nast. They arranged to have the WTC bombed so as to discredit the House of Saud and thereby ensure their inevitable downfall when the Saudi nation rises up against this worldwide humiliation and overthrows them, and makes Saudi Arabia safe for Miss December, Vogue, and the Christmas Annex.
Your rather lame attempt at refuting me would work better if you actually knew what you were talking about, like if you had some actual facts, instead of just parroting someone else’s conspiracy theory.
Eenerms, got any kind of proof or cite for what was going through OBL’s mind when he recruited certain people for this? 'Cause otherwise it’s just pure speculation on your part.
It’s too farfetched for me, to say that OBL hated the House of Saud because they allowed American troops on Saudi soil, so he arranged to get revenge on them by having the WTC blown up. The logic doesn’t follow. He had no way of knowing what the exact repercussions would be. For all he knew, the wussy Yankees might have shrugged it off as yet another terrorist bombing and gone with their Christmas decoration-buying, 25% off now through Sunday.
Duckie, ya know I love ya and all, but on this one, you’re flat-out wrong. Bin Laden’s stated goal is to kick all the Westerners off the holy Arabian peninsula. He’d hate us even if we weren’t there, of course, but that’s his excuse.
Okay.
But, can I still have Conde Nast in on the conspiracy? They have an Axis Of Evil travel magazine that I’d like to see Homeland Security look at more closely…