# Another "Anti-Gay" Crusader Falls Out Of The Closet **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349 "2010-05-05T00:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/241 "2010-05-07T16:25:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Don’t be a weasel. Is a handjob sex, yes or no? No. It’s sexual activity. It’s sexual relations. It’s not sex. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/242 "2010-05-07T16:26:34Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m not Bricker (in spite of the frequent confusion of us when I’m in public), but I consider a handjob sex_UAL_ as opposed to sex if that makes any sense. I’d definitely wave a shotgun at any teenaged boy who got one from my daughter before packing her off to the convent, but I might not pull the trigger. If I had only had a handjob/given a handjob I would not consider myself a virgin nor would I consider that I had lost my virginity- it’s in that twilight area. > > Oral sex or anything else that can cause an STD is, imo, sex. Right there with you. This is exactly my view. (See why we’re confused so often in public?) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/243 "2010-05-07T16:27:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > When you say “they didn’t have sex”, are you supporting [Rekers’ claims](http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/05/22302) about their relationship? > > So do you in fact believe that Rekers was not involved in any illegal or sexual behavior with his travel assistant, or are you merely indulging in a pointless and tedious nitpicking lawyerwank about the precise definition of “having sex”? I doubt it was illegal. I’m virtually certain it was sexual. I believe it’s not “having sex.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/244 "2010-05-07T16:29:27Z")
:rolleyes: **Bricker** , are you willing to accept the fact that many posters here are using the term “to have sex”, especially in a same-sex context, to **include** sexual activities involving direct stimulation of the genitals but not involving the penetration of a bodily orifice by a penis, and stop nitpicking the definition of the term? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/245 "2010-05-07T16:34:56Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :rolleyes: **Bricker** , are you willing to accept the fact that many posters here are using the term “to have sex”, especially in a same-sex context, to **include** sexual activities involving direct stimulation of the genitals but not involving the penetration of a bodily orifice by a penis, and stop nitpicking the definition of the term? Not without a little more evidence that this is standard usage. I reject it completely for opposite-sex relationships. “Did you have sex with her?” “No, she just gave me a handjob.” I’ll admit that for same-sex relationships, as you suggest, the convention may be different… but we have my brother from another mother **Sampiro** , by all accounts someone who is at least passing familiar with same-sex conventions, saying exactly what I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/246 "2010-05-07T16:38:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > (See why we’re confused so often in public?) Hey, **Sampiro** - what’s your opinion on showtunes? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/247 "2010-05-07T16:41:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. > > It’s sexual activity. It’s sexual relations. It’s not sex. There’s a difference between “sex” and “sexual relations?” So Bill Clinton did not have sex with that woman, then? He did not commit perjury? Does a handjob count as adultery? How are you defining sex? It sounds like, by your definition, gay sex isn’t even possible. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/248 "2010-05-07T16:45:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Right there with you. This is exactly my view. > > (See why we’re confused so often in public?) So basically your definition is completely arbitrary and personal. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/249 "2010-05-07T16:46:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not without a little more evidence that this is standard usage. I reject it completely for opposite-sex relationships. > > “Did you have sex with her?” > > “No, she just gave me a handjob.” :rolleyes: again. Plenty of people would make exactly the same sort of distinction between “having sex” and, say, fellatio: “Did you have sex with her?” “No, she just gave me a blowjob.” “To have sex” is an imprecise expression whose specific meaning depends largely on context. Clearly, when people in this thread are saying things like “Rekers claimed he didn’t have sex with his rentboy, but it turns out he did”, they aren’t making a specific claim about Rekers’ engaging in penetrative versus non-penetrative sex; they’re just making the point that Rekers was lying about the sexual nature of the relationship. When you come into that conversation with the observation that you think the two “didn’t have sex”, without clarifying that you mean specifically penetrative sex, you aren’t making any useful point, you’re just confusing the issue with pointless nitpicking. Which seems to be what you live for. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/250 "2010-05-07T16:48:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not without a little more evidence that this is standard usage. I reject it completely for opposite-sex relationships. > > “Did you have sex with her?” > > “No, she just gave me a handjob.” > > I’ll admit that for same-sex relationships, as you suggest, the convention may be different… but we have my brother from another mother **Sampiro** , by all accounts someone who is at least passing familiar with same-sex conventions, saying exactly what I’m saying. I made this same argument a few hundred times during the Bill Clinton years, only substitute “handjob” with “blowjob”. I was repeatedly told I was crazy. In any event, it doesn’t really matter if they had according-to-Hoyle “sex”. The question is whether he participated in behavior unbecoming someone who claims to have left homosexuality behind, and I think “the long stroke” counts. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/251 "2010-05-07T16:49:29Z")
Exactly. What difference does it make what KIND of sex they had? Reker denied that the relationship was sexual. That was a lie. It’s my understanding that (contrary to popular belief) _most_ gay sex does not involve anal sex, so I can’t see how that is any kind of significant point at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/252 "2010-05-07T16:51:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There’s a difference between “sex” and “sexual relations?” > [@](#): > > So Bill Clinton did not have sex with that woman, then? He did. > [@](#): > > He did not commit perjury? He did. > [@](#): > > Does a handjob count as adultery? No. > [@](#): > > How are you defining sex? **Sampiro** said it perfectly. > [@](#): > > It sounds like, by your definition, gay sex isn’t even possible. No, it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/253 "2010-05-07T16:53:36Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > I made this same argument a few hundred times during the Bill Clinton years, only substitute “handjob” with “blowjob”. I was repeatedly told I was crazy. And you were. The distinction between this discussion and the Clinton experience is that Clinton had a detailed definition of what constituted “sex,” for the purposes his his deposition, and he lied under that definition. > [@](#): > > In any event, it doesn’t really matter if they had according-to-Hoyle “sex”. The question is whether he participated in behavior unbecoming someone who claims to have left homosexuality behind, and I think “the long stroke” counts. Of course it does. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/254 "2010-05-07T16:54:38Z")
This whole discussion about what’s sex and what’s not sex should give Rekers some sense of relief; all he has to do is to announce: “I’m not gay. I just got handjobs from a Rentboy,” and this whole kerfuffle will just fade away. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/255 "2010-05-07T16:55:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > “To have sex” is an imprecise expression whose specific meaning depends largely on context. Agreed. Which is why I said: > [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, based on that conversation,\*\* it sounds to me\*\* like they didn’t have sex. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/256 "2010-05-07T16:57:05Z")
And it sounds to me like Reker is gayer than 7 guys blowing 8 guys, so what fucking difference does it make? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/257 "2010-05-07T17:00:39Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > And it sounds to me like Reker is gayer than 7 guys blowing 8 guys, so what fucking difference does it make? Well, my whole line of commentary was intended to explore the mental gymnastic that Reker must be engaging in to deny that he’s gayer than… what you said. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/258 "2010-05-07T17:00:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Does a handjob count as adultery? I would qualify it as adulter_ous_, more than adulter_y_ if that makes sense, the same as with a French kiss or cyber sex or heavy petting. It’s less than full fledged adultery but more like Adultery Helper perhaps- the seasonings are all there but the meat’s not in the pot just yet. Personally I would consider a French kiss or cybersex to be adulterous and a handjob, on a scale in which peck on the cheek is 1 and penetration is 10, to be around a 5 (7 required for adultery). If a partner gave/received a handjob, voluntarily obviously, from another person, it would be a very serious matter and a reasonable relationship ender, but I can see how in a closet case’s strained logic would tell him it’s not technically being unfaithful to his wife, which is what I think Bricker is saying- not that it isn’t gay or isn’t a sexual act, just that it’s not intercourse. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Exactly. What difference does it make what KIND of sex they had? Reker denied that the relationship was sexual. That was a lie. Absolutely. It was definitely sexual, no question about it. If all he had done was watch the kid jack off, that would be sexual and specifically _homo_sexual. Contact isn’t required for something to be sex **ual**. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/259 "2010-05-07T17:01:50Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I would qualify it as adulter_ous_, more than adulter_y_ if that makes sense, the same as with a French kiss or cyber sex or heavy petting. It’s less than full fledged adultery but more like Adultery Helper perhaps- the seasonings are all there but the meat’s not in the pot just yet. Personally I would consider a French kiss or cybersex or a handjob to be a very serious matter and a reasonable relationship ender, but I can see how in a closet case’s strained logic would tell him it’s not technically being unfaithful to his wife. Again, I endorse this statement. It’s adulterous in nature. It’s not adultery. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/260 "2010-05-07T17:07:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How are you defining sex? It sounds like, by your definition, gay sex isn’t even possible. Speaking more explicitly, I consider intercourse- between gay men or a straight couple- to begin when there is orificial insertion of the penis. I think the impeachment of Clinton was an outrage but I’d think the same thing if they’d had two kids together- it was nobody’s damned business as far as the presidency was concerned. BUT, Clinton did have sex with Monica Lewinsky- no question about that in my definition of the term- and the only way to say he didn’t was to do technical word play which is what he did. He did not commit perjury in fact but he did in spirit, though I think the outrage is he never should have been questioned on a consentual sex act to begin with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349.md?page=14)