# Another "Anti-Gay" Crusader Falls Out Of The Closet **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349 "2010-05-05T00:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/301 "2010-05-07T19:26:42Z")
In the tradition of Godwin’s Law, I propose Lewinskification Hypothesis: the longer a disagreement over U.S. political scandal, non-penetrative sex, or perjury should last the closer the probability of Bill Clinton’s blow job becoming a discussion point approaches 1. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/302 "2010-05-07T19:34:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > :dubious: Miller, I posted my question before seeing the second quote. I apologize for being human. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/303 "2010-05-07T19:39:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Miller, I posted my question before seeing the second quote. I apologize for being human. You, of all people, should no that humanity is no excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/304 "2010-05-07T19:40:32Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > The Catholic Church (which is not a gay-friendly organization, but has centuries of experience in legalistic definitions of such things) defines “sexual relations” as those which would normally include the possibility of pregnancy. Anything else would be “sexual activity” (and usually sinful). I suspect most of us could agree that what was going on in each case were things the Catholic Church would not approve of… ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/305 "2010-05-07T19:42:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Again, I endorse this statement. It’s adulterous in nature. It’s not adultery. Not to be too much of a prick, but you’re coming perilously close to Bill Clinton’s logic. Remember that he, concerned to be able to claim plausible deniability, sought out and obtained a definition of ‘sex’ that limited it to intromissive intercourse, and then truthfully denied having had ‘sex’ – by that definition. Voluntarily having another person not one’s wife, while married, bring one to orgasm for the purposes of sexual pleasure would for me qualify as adultery, regardless of the method used. ‘Lucien’ could have sat a yard away and tickled his penis with an ostrich plume, never having actually touched him where skin touches skin, and it would be adulterous. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/306 "2010-05-07T19:43:26Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > In the tradition of Godwin’s Law, I propose Lewinskification Hypothesis: the longer a disagreement over U.S. political scandal, non-penetrative sex, or perjury should last the closer the probability of Bill Clinton’s blow job becoming a discussion point approaches 1. I plead guilty and throw myself on the mercy of the court. ETA: **Bricker** , I apologize; I had not seen that extensive exchange on Clinton when I began composing my post responding to you above. Well said, sir. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/307 "2010-05-07T19:44:35Z")
This might be a first, but I will come in defense of Bricker. He was not being legalistic, he was merely explaining the sort of mental contortions that Mr. I Am So NOT Gay! must go through to convince himself that he can, in fact, enjoy when another man massages his genitals and still not be gay. And I agree that at some point “sexual activity” does not mean the same as “sexual relations”. If my doctor had asked my 19 yo self if I had had sex I would have truthfully answered no. For medical purposes the sexual activities I had been involved in were irrelevant. My father, I am sure, had a different definition. If I take a rentboy to Europe unbeknownst to my husband, it wouldn’t have mattered if we had _really_ spent the time reading the holy gospel (unlikely as that is). It is bad enough without the sexual component. Sometimes there is a transgression without sex, but most likely this type of transgression almost certainly mean that somebody was “hiking some trails”, ifyaknowwhatImean. As my mom would say, “if isn’t bad, why did you hide it?”. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/308 "2010-05-07T21:06:37Z")
And the details just keep spewing forth. [http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2010/05/\_despite\_what\_anti-gay\_evangel.php](http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2010/05/_despite_what_anti-gay_evangel.php) And according to the story Rekers never, ahem, climaxed, so I guess that just complicates the question of whether he did or did not have sex. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/309 "2010-05-07T21:20:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > … notorious “Fire Eaters” before the Civil War, [Preston “Bully” Brooks"](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Brooks) (who caned Massachusetts Senator Charles _ **Sumner** _ half to death right on the Senate floor)… Think ya could see yer way ‘round to gettin’ yer current senator to doin’ the same to New York Senator Charles _ **Shumer** _? I’d pay good money to see that. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/310 "2010-05-07T21:30:44Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > And the details just keep spewing forth. Especially the part about a _written contract_. Is that normal when hiring a rent boy? Seems pretty risky, if you are a famous anti-gay preacher! (Rather like the right-wing republican governor candidate we had some years ago, who paid for his mistresses abortion with a personal check! Some things are best not done in writing!) ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/311 "2010-05-07T21:47:42Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > … if Rekers set himself on fire on a street corner I not only wouldn’t shed a tear… I’d take pity on him and piss the fire out. [Oops, did I just piss on you? Sorry, dude… :rolleyes:] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/312 "2010-05-07T21:51:03Z")
First of all, I don’t think a handjob is “sex,” but I’m flabbergasted that there are people who wouldn’t call a handjob adultery. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/313 "2010-05-07T21:51:21Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > phbbbt! Of course not, a man doesn’t even have a vagina. Of course not. He has a cigar… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/314 "2010-05-07T21:55:04Z")
Why does this thread’s subject suggest _ **waaay** _ too many cheesy jokes? I guess the assholes should learn to keep their pants zipped, and pulled up at the back. [Crack Kills!] ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/315 "2010-05-07T23:11:57Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > He should have boldly announced to his flock ,that he is taking a gay escort on a 10 day vacation to an island ,to retrain him. I am sure they would have swallowed it. 😃 They would just be following his example, right? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/316 "2010-05-07T23:44:54Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I don’t care if we define a Rusty Trombone as a pseudo-non-adulterous-sexual-like-relation-of-the-third-kind, it doesn’t take away from the fact that this Reker guy is a hypocritical bag of shit. A Rusty Trombone is most certainly adultery. It is also disgusting. Don’t look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/317 "2010-05-08T00:02:08Z")
"Lucien"s statement that > [@](#): > > “Wait – you mean he mentioned there was no sexual…? Well, you know, I’m an escort, not a prostitute, and in this case, there was a sexual encounter amongst us. Agreed upon.” is a throwback to the earlier pre-Lewinskification question about how escorts are legal. Make no mistake- he’s a prostitute, albeit an upscale one as opposed to the “Hey dude, wanna party?” on the street variety, but while the guy/gal who offers to suck your dick for $25 can’t be taken as selling anything other than sex the escort has (filament thin but legally real) plausible deniability: “He paid me for my time, and since I liked him I- completely unrelated to the financial transaction- had sex with him.” A woman I once knew who’d worked as an escort in Manhattan was employed through an upscale agency. She said she was actually treated very well by the agency- it wasn’t a pimp situation at all- she was accompanied to every assignment by a ‘tough guy’ who made sure she wasn’t walking into a trap and who knew better than she the giveaway signs of a sting and he gave the “you understand you’re paying for this lady’s time, right?” She was paid something like $20 per hour for her time, though the “tip” was about $300 per hour. She had the right to refuse to do anything she didn’t want to do with any client, though if that happened she got the $20 only and of course if she did it more than occasionally she’d be dropped from the escort agency’s rolls. She said the woman who ran the agency had been an escort before she got a bit long in the tooth and had only rarely had any problems with the cops- again, it’s just too low pri. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/318 "2010-05-08T00:08:35Z")
Missed the edit window, but a bit more detail than the last: "Lucien"s statement that > [@](#): > > “Wait – you mean he mentioned there was no sexual…? Well, you know, I’m an escort, not a prostitute, and in this case, there was a sexual encounter amongst us. Agreed upon.” is a throwback to the earlier pre-Lewinskification question about how escorts are legal. Make no mistake- he’s a prostitute, albeit an upscale one as opposed to the “Hey dude, wanna party?” on the street variety, but while the guy/gal who offers to suck your dick for $25 can’t be taken as selling anything other than sex the escort has (filament thin but legally real) plausible deniability: “He paid me for my time, and since I liked him I- completely unrelated to the financial transaction- had sex with him.” A woman I once knew who’d worked as an escort in Manhattan was employed through an upscale agency. I don’t think these are as common for men- they tend to go more on their own- but they are fairly common for women since 1- the risks of rape and violence are higher (though these risks aren’t non-existent with male escorts) 2- there’s a much larger market (since there are more straight guys than gay guys in non-religious industries) 3- name recognition is a big part (just as with brothels everyone knew “Miss Lula’s” is the best in a certain town, they would know that Sidney Biddle Barrows Agency or whoever was a discretion and class assured agency in wherever) She said she was actually treated very well by the agency- it wasn’t a pimp situation at all- she was accompanied to every assignment by a ‘tough guy’ who she called her "driver’ even though he didn’t usually actually drive her since this was NYC; usually they just shared a cab. He was there to make sure she wasn’t walking into a trap and who knew better than she the giveaway signs of a sting and he gave the “you understand you’re paying for this lady’s time, right?” She was paid something like $20 per hour for her time, though the “tip” was about $200 per hour from which she gave the agency about half, part of which went to pay her ‘driver’. The driver was and wasn’t there to intimidate- he was as discreet as she was, but it’s a not subtle but also not unwarranted “Anything happens to her, you gonna see me again” message. She had the right to refuse to do anything she didn’t want to do with any client, though if that happened she got the $20 only and of course if she did it more than occasionally she’d be dropped from the escort agency’s rolls. She said the woman who ran the agency had been an escort before she got a bit long in the tooth and had only rarely had any problems with the cops. It’s just too low pri and it can be difficult to get a conviction if there hasn’t been actual sex and money exchanged, because again- it’s not like a street whore who’ll say “$50 for [sex act here]”, and one of the key things the clients are paying for is this discretion so they’re ready to play the game. Some escort agencies accept credit cards. There have been scandals- a lot of them actually- in which charges to escort agencies were deducted as business expenses on taxes, usually as some sort of consulting or business entertainment expense (which, often, it is- out of town businessmen are the bread and butter of most escort agencies and it’s always been a practice from some companies to take extra special care of their clients. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/319 "2010-05-08T00:54:25Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > First of all, I don’t think a handjob is “sex,” but I’m flabbergasted that there are people who wouldn’t call a handjob adultery. At the risk of being accused of being legalistic: > [@Va Code § 18.2-365](#): > > Adultery defined; penalty. > > Any person, being married, who voluntarily shall have sexual intercourse with any person not his or her spouse shall be guilty of adultery, punishable as a Class 4 misdemeanor. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349/320 "2010-05-08T01:40:46Z")
I guess I can be a pedant as well when the occasion demands of me: Adultery – [**Definitions**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery): > [@](#): > > In the traditional English common law, adultery was a felony. Although the legal definition of “adultery” differs in nearly every legal system, the common theme is [**sexual relations**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexual_behavior) outside of marriage, in one form or another. From link in quote: [**Sexual activity**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexual_behavior): > [@](#): > > **The term sexual activity can refer both to acts involving two or more people, as in sexual intercourse, oral sex, or mutual masturbation, and to the one person activity, such as masturbation.** – underline mine. As should be obvious, we’re speaking of the former definition here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-anti-gay-crusader-falls-out-of-the-closet/538349.md?page=17)