# Another antigay pastor is outed. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242 "2010-06-23T15:04:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/21 "2010-06-23T18:08:26Z")
Over the years my gay friends have taught me that people who struggle with issues of sexuality can be extremely unhappy and do disastrously hopeless things as a result. "They need patience, understanding and compassion. " they tell me. Elsewhere on the net I’ve read some pretty hateful things about Pastor Brock posted by avowed homosexuals and I scatch my head and wonder what happens to that message when the shoe is on the other foot. Is it a reflexion of the self-loathing some gay people develop because of their social frustrations? A desire to punish? A forgetfulness of their own struggles to attain personhood? Complicated subject. And I sometimes wonder if it’s an absolute that everyone who is antagonistic to homosexuality automatically has to be gay. Sure seems to be a common factor. Yet I cringe sometimes when thoughtless voices jeer at antis and accuse them of being gay in a manner which implies insult or some defectiveness on their part. It looks like children taunting, “You’re a bad person!” _“Oh yeah? Well, so are you!”_ Puzzles me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/22 "2010-06-23T18:09:02Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > To be completely non-hypocritical, Brock would need to be open and public about his attraction to men, which could include the steps he is taking to fight it and his conviction that it is wrong to act on those feelings. This is probaby way too much to hope for; it would presume a surpising level of tolerance among his audience, which, if they had it, they wouldn’t be his audience in the first place. So, since he is not public about his true feelings at least in part for fear of losing that audience, there is a significant element of hypocrisy in his behavior after all. Why? Why does he have to divulge this personal issue in order not to be a hypocrite? Does he have to tell his parishoners about every single sin he commits in order not to be a hypocrite? I don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/23 "2010-06-23T18:24:17Z")
The anonymity of the support group shouldn’t have been breached. The guy isn’t a hypocrite, he’s a sad self-hater. Should he have been outed? I think so: his self-loathing doesn’t give him license to make hateful proclamations (and untrue ones at that) about others. But this wasn’t the way to do it – not because of the breach of his anonymity, but the breach against the other members of the group. Deluded though they may be, they deserved to have the intended sanctity of their meetings upheld. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/24 "2010-06-23T18:35:00Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > But this wasn’t the way to do it – not because of the breach of his anonymity, but the breach against the other members of the group. Deluded though they may be, they deserved to have the intended sanctity of their meetings upheld. The article didn’t breach anyones anonymity except Brock (and the priest that ran the group, but I don’t think he attended anonymously, as we was apparently the organizers of the group and the person who people who were interested in joining contacted). That said, I agree with peoples reservations about the ethics of joining an anonymous support group to out Brock. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/25 "2010-06-23T18:41:58Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Dear Homo Haters: > > It may be news to you, and you won’t want to hear this, but I’m going to have to tell you. For your own sake. > > I’m a fairly typical midwestern-born middle-aged white heterosexual male. Having been all but one of those all of my life (the middle-aged one, silly!), I feel myself qualified to educate people on some subjects. > > While I’m not really qualfied in speaking on homosexual issues, I believe that I AM qualified to speak on heterosexual issues. And you know what? I have never lusted after another man. I’ve never had to wrestle down the demons of homosexuality so that I wasn’t forced to grab a handfull of beefcake. I have never felt the need to suck a cock to prove to myself that I don’t, in fact, enjoy it. I’ve never told myself (afterward, of course) that I’m not the fag, he is, because he’s the one blowing me, not the other way around. > > Straight guys, if they want to help some poor homosexual see the light, do not go to some rent-a-boy website and find themselves a nice, hairless twentysomething. Some ugly gay kid from the children’s home would work just as well. > > Straight guys don’t spend their waking moments fighting off a raging to get a mouthful of stiff hard cock. They don’t even spend their waking moments thinking about how horrible and icky it is to get a mouthful of stiff, hard cock. What do they do? They don’t think about it! Not even a little bit. It’s kind of like spending a bunch of time thinking about what life must be like as a Bandladeshi Mud Farmer. It doesn’t even enter my head because there’s absolutely no attention paid to it in my brain. > > Now, I’m not saying that I’m completely oblivious to members of my own gender running around out there There might be some “Man, that guy looks good with his shirt off - maybe I should go to the gym more” or “I bet women throw themselves at Orlando Bloom all the time, I wish I had his looks, even if I ended up looking kind of femmy like he does.” There is no “I wonder if he’s cut?”. > > If you are experiencing any of these symptoms, or if you find yourself doing your wife from behind so that you can pretend it’s not a woman under you, it might be time to take look around, reevaluate your life, and move away from Homokill, IA. > > -Joe You seem to be obsessed with “stiff, hard cock”. Is there something you want to share with us all? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/26 "2010-06-23T18:46:24Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > …it’s beginning to look like this whole gay/anti-gay conflict is actually just a civil war among the gays, with us ambivalent heterosexuals caught in the middle… That– I— Uh— Shit. I’m gonna have to think on that. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/27 "2010-06-23T18:53:21Z")
Almost entirely unrelated to the thread, but seeing the term “GLBT” I couldn’t help but think “BLTG”. Someone needs to market Bacon, Lettuce, Tomato, and Gravy (G?) sandwiches. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/28 "2010-06-23T18:56:07Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Almost entirely unrelated to the thread, but seeing the term “GLBT” I couldn’t help but think “BLTG”. Someone needs to market Bacon, Lettuce, Tomato, and Gravy (G?) sandwiches. Guacamole. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/29 "2010-06-23T18:58:44Z")
If anything along those lines, it’s a war between gays and the religious traditions that have poisoned the minds of a lot of people. Some of whom are also gay. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/30 "2010-06-23T19:26:16Z")
You know what? To me, Brock’s hypocrisy is irrelevant. Brock makes a living taking money from people by playing to their worst fears, advancing an abhorrent point of view, and contributing to the dehumanization and discrimination against an entire class of people that have never done anything to him. The fact that he may belong to that class of people is, to me, beside the point. He could be the straightest guy on the fucking planet who never had a gay thought in his life and he would still be lower than a snake’s ball bag as far as I’m concerned. IOW, fuck that piece of shit. He deserves whatever happens to him. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/31 "2010-06-23T19:28:20Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Why was this addressed to me? I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make to me Hah. No, sorry. You were just a convenient one to hit the quote button on. It was more directed at tHe subject of the OP and those like him. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/32 "2010-06-23T19:43:24Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > advancing an abhorrent point of view, and contributing to the dehumanization and discrimination against an entire class of people that have never done anything to him. Well, apparently some of the ones in Slovakia did some things to him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/33 "2010-06-23T21:27:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We’re all dancing around the real issue here: That Lutheran pastor was attending a **Catholic** gay-chastity group! :mad: Yeah, wassup with that? Iz weird. > [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > You know what? To me, Brock’s hypocrisy is irrelevant. Brock makes a living taking money from people by playing to their worst fears, advancing an abhorrent point of view, and contributing to the dehumanization and discrimination against an entire class of people that have never done anything to him. The fact that he may belong to that class of people is, to me, beside the point. He could be the straightest guy on the fucking planet who never had a gay thought in his life and he would still be lower than a snake’s ball bag as far as I’m concerned. > > IOW, fuck that piece of shit. He deserves whatever happens to him. Fear mongering and dehumanizing for money, power, “respect” or any other reward from a Lutheran is hypocrisy. The fact that he was condemning gays and hated his own gayness only makes him non-hypocritical on that one issue. He is and was generally a hypocrite and a purveyor of hatred. As for the “confidentiality” of the meeting, 12 step meetings are not confidentially privileged under the law and reporters don’t impliedly promise confidentiality, they may explicitly do so, but that wasn’t done here. If you are a famous person who goes to Alcoholics Anonymous, like Ringo Starr, it gets all out over the internet, and Ringo isn’t all butthurt about it. That Kennedy cousin who confessed in a 12 step meeting was wrong about confidentiality too. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/34 "2010-06-23T21:36:18Z")
Sounds like Tom Brock has [SSAD.](http://www.boston-legal.org/script/BL03x14.pdf) (Scroll down a bit to **Denny Cranes’s Office.** ) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/35 "2010-06-23T22:03:41Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Over the years my gay friends have taught me that people who struggle with issues of sexuality can be extremely unhappy and do disastrously hopeless things as a result. "They need patience, understanding and compassion. " they tell me. > > Elsewhere on the net I’ve read some pretty hateful things about Pastor Brock posted by avowed homosexuals and I scatch my head and wonder what happens to that message when the shoe is on the other foot. Is it a reflexion of the self-loathing some gay people develop because of their social frustrations? A desire to punish? A forgetfulness of their own struggles to attain personhood? Could it possibly be that the venn diagram of your gay friends and avowed homosexuals on the internet may not, in point of fact, overlap? Anyway, my thought is that if he wants to be all conflicted, that’s his business. But if he takes an anti-gay stance in public then I don’t particularly care about him being outed. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/36 "2010-06-23T22:27:34Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Could it possibly be that the venn diagram of your gay friends and avowed homosexuals on the internet may not, in point of fact, overlap? > > Anyway, my thought is that if he wants to be all conflicted, that’s his business. But if he takes an anti-gay stance in public then I don’t particularly care about him being outed. Apparently the venn diagram of my gay friends and avaowed homosexuals on the net does not overlap! That seems a pity to me. I have difficulty understanding how demonstrating behavior other than what one desires for himself furthers any cause. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/37 "2010-06-23T22:42:26Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Guacamole. Perfect! I could never think of a food that started with G to round out the sandwich ingredients, but now I know what I can serve if I have a Pride party next year. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/38 "2010-06-23T23:03:00Z")
Bacon, Lettuce, Tomato, and Gruyère (cheese) would also work, if you don’t like Guacamole. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/39 "2010-06-23T23:04:36Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > As for the “confidentiality” of the meeting, 12 step meetings are not confidentially privileged under the law and reporters don’t impliedly promise confidentiality, they may explicitly do so, but that wasn’t done here. If you are a famous person who goes to Alcoholics Anonymous, like Ringo Starr, it gets all out over the internet, and Ringo isn’t all butthurt about it. That Kennedy cousin who confessed in a 12 step meeting was wrong about confidentiality too. Whether or not twelve-step groups are confidential under the law is irrelevant, I think. And as to whether “reporters imply or promise confidentiality”, that also is irrelevant as I don’t believe that the reporter identified himself as such. The confidentiality is a matter of understanding among the participants and I think that violating that confidence to get this story is a shitty thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242/40 "2010-06-23T23:15:07Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The article didn’t breach anyones anonymity except Brock (and the priest that ran the group, but I don’t think he attended anonymously, as we was apparently the organizers of the group and the person who people who were interested in joining contacted). It didn’t breach their anonymity, but the acts of the reporter breached the understanding that allows people to freely share in these types of meetings. Anyone who’s been to a 12-step kind of thing knows that the only reason why people are willing to open up about whatever it is they’re dealing with is because there’s a social contract involved, everyone there is going through the same thing, and that commonality creates a certain respect for privacy. No matter what sort of support group I was in, I’d be very disturbed to learn that someone who was meant to be my peer was actually an infiltrator, who has _demonstrated_ no respect for the privacy of those involved in the meeting, and might discuss what _I_ said there next. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > As for the “confidentiality” of the meeting, 12 step meetings are not confidentially privileged under the law and reporters don’t impliedly promise confidentiality, they may explicitly do so, but that wasn’t done here. It’s not about him implying or promising confidentiality as a reporter, it’s about the fact that his undercover operation to sting one person over their secrets gave him consequential access to the secrets of others to which he was not entitled. Lying and prying into the life of the target of your exposé is one thing, involving bystanders is another thing altogether. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-antigay-pastor-is-outed/544242.md?page=3)