# Another bad science fiction trope **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 26, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532 "2021-01-26T15:31:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/101 "2021-01-28T16:28:55Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Wait. Shouldn’t that have meant that of course the Air Force would have _accepted_ it? 😉 Too difficult to wear while sitting in an office chair, and a gladius-style sword is too short to be used as a pointer for a PowerPoint presentation. You should have made it telescopic with a gas spring action a 5W laser pointer on the tip, then find a contractor to supply it to you at $100k per unit with a minimum purchase of 500,000 units and a ten year service life support and preventative maintenance contract worth $8B. Call it the Personnel Recovery Interim Crew Knife System (PRICKS) and you’d be set for promotion, which you’ll want to do to get away from the utter disaster this program will become after Procurement down-selects to a combined team of Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, United Technologies, and Fisher-Price to produce it. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/102 "2021-01-28T16:33:47Z")
Yeah. I suspect (though haven’t run the calculations) that nothing made of conventional matter and of that size would hold together spinning fast enough to get 1 gee ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/103 "2021-01-28T16:41:04Z")
A look at this chart of breaking length [Specific strength - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_strength#Calculations_of_Breaking_length) suggests that if Ceres was made of carbon nanotube it would survive being spun up to 1 gee ---
**Author:** ![eburacum\_45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum_45/32/3385_2.png) [@eburacum\_45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum_45)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/104 "2021-01-28T17:06:13Z")
Absolutely. I’ve ‘designed’ a rotating system made of carbon nanotube to surround Ceres while rotating at 7000kmph. I don’t suppose it will ever get built. By the time we could build something like this, we probably won’t need it. [![](https://orionsarm.com/im_store/med_ceresring.png) ](https://orionsarm.com/im_store/med_ceresring.png) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/105 "2021-01-28T17:13:12Z")
> [@eburacum\_45](#): > > Ceres is made of ice and rock. To get 1 gee at the equator you’d need to spin it at +7000kph. The rock and ice would fall apart and be spread around the Solar System. Maybe you could spin it to get 0.03 gee; but you already get that from the intrinsic gravity of this dwarf planet. In the books, Ceres is being rotated to generate ~0.3 g of radial acceleration, which is about 0.0025 rad/s and a linear speed of 1175 m/s. Assuming a density of 3000 kg/m^3 in a relatively thin shell, that gives a stress of ~4.1 GPa. The highest strength carbon fiber available today is about 6 GPa, and we can safely assume that in the space-jetting fusion-powered future of _The Expanse_ they have probably managed to improve upon that; carbon nanotubes can have theoretical tensile strengths into the 100 GPa region. So as long as the bedrock shell is adequately reinforced (essentially making it a giant composite overwrapped pressure vessel slash flywheel) it would be feasible. It’s not physically impossible in the way that, say, Larry Niven’s Ringworld structure is (without hypothesizing a non-physical material, anyway), and it is actually the kinetic energy requirements that **Dr.Strangelove** noted above that actually make it implausible. It would be a poor choice, anyway; much easier to move, manipulate, and protect a bunch of smaller habitats, and the energy and tensile strength requirements are much less with a smaller diameter habitat even if it isn’t as efficient in terms of interior surface area per amount of material. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/106 "2021-01-28T18:16:28Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Just to be clear, I think _The Expanse_ is a great show—very likely the best science fiction show that has been and will be made for the foreseeable future I often wonder–when I see gushing praise for the series–if I would have felt the same way if I hadn’t read the books first. That usually poisons my ability to enjoy a video adaptation. If it is loyal to the source material I’m rolling my eyes at the perfunctory ticking off of plot points and if it deviates greatly I’m being annoyed by the hack job. (I realize this isn’t especially rational.) There are rare exceptions to this for me, but _The Expanse_ isn’t one of them. It is just this thing that is on TV. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/107 "2021-01-28T18:21:40Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Yes, it was supposed to be half of all living things _everywhere_ – I can’t remember if it was just this galaxy, or the entire universe. It did not seem to be plants and trees. And since intelligent life was the curse, why cows and dogs and bugs? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/108 "2021-01-28T18:29:04Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Advanced interstellar civilizations still fighting with swords (Star Wars, Dune, Riddick, Klingons, etc) Well, the Lightsaber can deflect blaster bolts. In the books, the daggers were used on Dune as the shields blocked anything faster- but then why not design a gun with slow bullets that explode inside the target? I thought the Klingon weapons were ceremonial? Still, if your “blaster” is no better than a Colt 1911, then I have some doubts. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/109 "2021-01-28T18:31:37Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Just to be clear, I think _The Expanse_ is a great show Oh come on now. Having the belters _smoking_? Nobody would ever fucking smoke in outer space. Give me a break. Amazon must need that Big Tobacco payola. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/110 "2021-01-28T18:34:37Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > The Barsoom of Burroughs didn’t have Ray Guns (at least not until they had appeared in other franchises – all the combatants on Mars used either black powder rifles or swords. They used “Radium” rifles, “radium” here being a unstable material but not actually radium. And they had rules on who could use what weapon against whom. You couldn’t use a radium rifle vs a sword armed foe. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/111 "2021-01-28T18:35:25Z")
“But—and I’m only saying this because I care—there are a lot of decaffeinated brands on market that are just as tasty as the real thing.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/112 "2021-01-28T18:36:33Z")
Lol! 🤣 😆 ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/113 "2021-01-28T19:03:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It did not seem to be plants and trees. > > And since intelligent life was the curse, why cows and dogs and bugs? I think _everyone_ agrees the whole thing didn’t make sense. But [puts on geek pedant hat], the Snap _did_ include plants and trees. There was an empty courtyard in Avengers HQ. After the counter-snap, when characters are wondering whether it worked, one of the characters hears birdsong, and looks out into the courtyard which was visibly empty only minutes before to see it now has a tree with a couple of birds flitting around it. Granted, the movies weren’t consistent about depicting this aspect of the Snap, but, again, see _everyone_ agrees it didn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/114 "2021-01-28T19:21:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They used “Radium” rifles, “radium” here being a unstable material but not actually radium. And they had rules on who could use what weapon against whom. You couldn’t use a radium rifle vs a sword armed foe. The Radium is in the transparent bullet, and explodes when exposed to light. I don’t know if he ever says what provides the propellant force, but I’ve always assumed black powder. Certainly that appears to be what they use in the movie. It’s been a while since I read the book - I had to look this up. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/115 "2021-01-28T19:25:01Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I often wonder–when I see gushing praise for the series–if I would have felt the same way if I hadn’t read the books first. That usually poisons my ability to enjoy a video adaptation. If it is loyal to the source material I’m rolling my eyes at the perfunctory ticking off of plot points and if it deviates greatly I’m being annoyed by the hack job. (I realize this isn’t especially rational.) There are rare exceptions to this for me, but _The Expanse_ isn’t one of them. It is just this thing that is on TV. To each their own, but while I’m consistently disappointed by the various _Star Trek_ series, watching in horror as the SyFy iteration of _Battlestar Galactica_ went completely off the rails after a promising start, and couldn’t get past the wooden acting, soap opera plotting, and Video Toaster CGI of _Babylon 5_ enough to make it past the first series, _The Expanse_ feels remarkably well-written and produced. The budget clearly ins’t that high but set and prop designers have done very well in making it look like a futuristic and lived in world, and the CGI and wire work is of cinematic quality (not quite Marvel Studios but then they’re working with about 2% of the budget per screen hour). Having only read the first novel I can’t speak to how close or distant the later series have stayed to the books but the multithreaded storylines are pretty well balanced and they give room for each character to develop into more than just a single facet exposition tool. I would like to see a little more transhumanism in their technology to help explain how they live in space but they certainly portray an Earth, Mars, and Belt that have distinct cultures, competing political factions, and disenfranchised masses who are victims to the whims of powerful autocrats and oligarchs making self-serving or heart-hearted decisions intended to advance their own causes at the expense of ordinary lives. Nobody is wasting time pissing about a “Prime Directive” and then deciding to ignore it anyway. And I’ll just say it; Wes Chatham‘s Amos is a better sociopath than Jayne Cobb. He kills it as “That Guy” in scene after scene. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/116 "2021-01-28T19:25:15Z")
I will ask my wife , she is a expert. But they _look_ like black powder rifles, at least. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/117 "2021-01-28T19:28:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Oh come on now. Having the belters _smoking_ ? Nobody would ever fucking smoke in outer space. Give me a break. Amazon must need that Big Tobacco payola. Boy, people used to smoke in space all the time, especially in the 1950s. Have a look at the otherwise excellent **It! The Terror from Beyond Space** , the proto - **Alien**. Lots of people smoking there. (They also had and used pistols and grenades – grenades!! – on the ship to try to kill the beastie. Why were they even carrying that stuff?) Abuse of smoking privilege aboard a space ship with limited oxygen was even a plot point in Arthur C. Clarke’s story “Breaking Strain” (AKA “Thirty Seconds Thirty Days”) (1949) I guess back then people assumed smoking was a necessary vice. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/118 "2021-01-28T19:34:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And since intelligent life was the curse, why cows and dogs and bugs? “Plants and birds and rocks and things.” If the Snap took away half your gut bacteria, you’ll be in for a hurt until it resupplies back. and when it comes back, you’ll be in for a real worlkd of hurt. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/119 "2021-01-28T19:44:40Z")
Yeah. Look, the Snap made so little sense. If limited to intelligent life, which _could_ be considered a curse, that kinda makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/120 "2021-01-28T19:51:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > and couldn’t get past the wooden acting, soap opera plotting, and Video Toaster CGI of _Babylon 5_ enough to make it past the first series, _The Expanse_ feels remarkably well-written and produced. > … > Having only read the first novel I can’t speak to how close or distant the later series have stayed to the books but the multithreaded storylines are pretty well balanced and they give room for each character to develop into more than just a single facet exposition tool. > … > I would like to see a little more transhumanism in their technology to help explain how they live in space B5: I couldn’t get past the first episode. _They had a whole species of Grandpa Munster!_ Characters: All of the books are formatted as short chapters, each chapter shifting the POV character. For example, _Tiamat’s Wrath_, the only book I have on my phone in front of me, is 52 chapters in a not-especially-long book. Transhumanism: in the books the Belters are all very tall and lanky, but that would be difficult to cast. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532.md?page=7)