# Another bad science fiction trope **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 26, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532 "2021-01-26T15:31:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/141 "2021-01-29T17:13:50Z")
This is not from knowledge but it seems to me that modern nuclear sub might clean the air well enough that smoking would be possible but WW2 diesels might not be able to. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/142 "2021-01-29T17:30:04Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Transhumanism: in the books the Belters are all very tall and lanky, but that would be difficult to cast. In the TV series, they did have a nod to it with some of the casting of minor characters in Season 1 (and, as I recall, there was a mention or two of Belters’ builds in early episodes), but I agree, it’s something that they didn’t focus on much, or for long, and most of the main Belt-born characters (Naomi Ngata, Joe Miller, Camina Drummer, Anderson Dawes, etc.) are played by actors with more normal proportions. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/143 "2021-01-29T17:30:30Z")
About 15 years ago on an SSN, we had a smoking spot (in the engine room near some very powerful vent fans). During some operations the “smoking lamp” was snuffed out, meaning no smoking anywhere. Only off-watch sailors were allowed to smoke in that smoking spot. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/144 "2021-01-29T17:45:19Z")
> [@solost](#): > > One group that desperately needs to get a message to another group figures out they can communicate Morse Code through some sort of primitive tapping or pulse transmission mechanism, and not only does someone know Morse on the sending end, there’s always one who knows it on the receiving end. This was used in a recent episode of _Star Trek Discovery_ . But now that I think about it, I think that the universal translator should pick that up: somebody starts tapping, everybody hears a disembodied voice saying stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/145 "2021-01-29T17:46:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think you assume a social acceptance of radical body modification that might not exist. Note that the endocrine acceleration implant is illegal, for one thing. On Earth, sure; there seems to be both social conservatism and strict laws (and probably a high surveillance ethic as well). But on Mars, which is future-focused and adapting all useful technologies to inhabit their planet (and apparently a high tolerance for corruption), or the anarcho-syndicalism of the Outer Planets Alliance? The Belters in particular are highly individualistic and clearly not adverse to conventional body modifications (e.g. piercings, tattoos, et cetera) so that they would not develop and use technologies that enhances survivability in their harsh environment—especially since we know they have the capabilities such as Drummer’s spinal implant, and the ability to culture tissue like Amos’ ruined hand—just seems like an oversight on the part of the writers. Again, not a huge issue, and there may be good reasons that they didn’t want to portray those technologies routinely (for one, it would make the props and effects work even more challenging) but sophisticated implanted devices with some neural connectivity and biological modifications are certainly technologies to be put into wide use on the foreseeable horizon of even the next couple of decades. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![cormac262](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@cormac262](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cormac262)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/146 "2021-01-29T18:48:51Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I don’t know what the policy is today. I also don’t know what the policy was back in the WWII diesel boat era. On the nuclear-powered submarines I was on, we had unlimited power for atmosphere control equipment, which was not the case on a diesel boat (which is actually battery powered when submerged). I will say that the fan room filters got pretty dirty from cigarette smoke, and it really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to allow smoking in a closed atmosphere environment. > > BTW, one way to piss off the smokers was to let the oxygen levels drop a bit below normal. They then had trouble lighting their cigarettes. 😉 I worked for a company that made sonar systems for submarines. We had a number of former submariners (sonarmen) as both field engineers and marketting/sales people. One of the older former sonarmen served on diesel electric boats post WWII (lots of cold war era), he used to tell the stories of how it was more important to keep your cigarette lit as the oxygen levels dwindled, than to…breathe. It was this “need nicotine to stay awake” more than “need oxygen to stay conscious” attitude. So these guys would be sucking frantically to keep the butts lit while huddled over their screens. These stories were recounted and confirmed when these old sonarmen would get together with their other brethren. So yes, they at least allowed sonarmen to smoke on the diesel electric boats. On the nuclear powered subs I got to go on sea trials for, they had the “designated smoking area” back somewhere toward the engine room. Knowing this was the designated smoking area, I avoided it as best I could (plus you lost hearing the closer you got to the engine room). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/147 "2021-01-29T19:38:49Z")
> [@robby](#): > > When I was first on a submarine in the late ‘80s. Smoking was allowed just about everywhere on board. It was not allowed in the wardroom (officers’ mess) because none of the officers smoked on the boat I was on. Nukes? Not Diesel? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/148 "2021-01-29T19:39:13Z")
That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/149 "2021-01-29T19:53:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > When I was first on a submarine in the late ‘80s. Smoking was allowed just about everywhere on board. It was not allowed in the wardroom (officers’ mess) because none of the officers smoked on the boat I was on. > > Nukes? Not Diesel? Correct. I was only on nuclear-powered subs. The last U.S. diesel submarine was decommissioned right around the same time that I was entering the submarine service. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/150 "2021-01-29T20:05:44Z")
Warp engines would have to be on the whole time, otherwise the warping of space would cease instantly. No “warp coasting”! ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/151 "2021-01-29T20:06:27Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > This is not from knowledge but it seems to me that modern nuclear sub might clean the air well enough that smoking would be possible but WW2 diesels might not be able to. However, note that diesel subs (which are battery powered when submerged below periscope/snorkel depth), don’t stay submerged all that long (measured in hours). When they run the diesel to recharge the batteries, they ventilate and change out the air. Nuclear submarines, on the other hand, stay submerged continuously for months. With the ubiquity of smoking in the WWII era, I don’t suspect there was any prohibition on smoking on subs (other than for specific evolutions, like fuel transfers, when it would be announced that the “[smoking lamp is out](https://theleansubmariner.com/2014/03/29/the-smoking-lamp-is-out/)”), but I don’t know for sure. I’m just making an educated guess. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/152 "2021-01-29T20:16:29Z")
Yeah, my reason for thinking modern sub clean the air well is precisely because they stay down so much longer than the old diesel electrics. Everything else I said was guess work. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/153 "2021-01-29T20:25:37Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > (for one, it would make the props and effects work even more challenging Cyber-arms and the like are trivial effects even a novice cosplayer can manage. That can’t be the reason. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/154 "2021-01-29T20:40:44Z")
Relevant spoilers for future Expanse books: At the end of the next book after the one for this season, a dickish dictator-type escapes through a stargate with the protomolecule. The next book starts after a 20-year time-jump, where we find that said dictator has been doing experiments on prisoners to superify them using the protomolecule in a way similar to the evil superzombies from earlier in the series. He is attempting to become immortal. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/155 "2021-01-29T21:37:43Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Here’s a trope that I see all the freakin’ time, and in much more than science fiction, though I feel like it’s used a lot in sci-fi because of the juxtaposition of high tech and old-school: all typical forms of communication have broken down, but one group that desperately needs to get a message to another group figures out they can communicate Morse Code through some sort of primitive tapping or pulse transmission mechanism, and not only does someone know Morse on the sending end, there’s always one who knows it on the receiving end. Hmm, is there a TV Trope for that? Yes, there is: > > **[Everyone Knows Morse](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneKnowsMorse)** That was subverted in one of the books in the 1632 series (about a West Virginia town that’s somehow transported back in time to the 30 Years War): A telecom tech (a modern one, who’s more used to working with computers than with bare copper) is stranded far from civilization, and manages to rig up something that he can use to send pulses… and so sends “SOS” repeatedly until rescue shows up. The other telecom tech (an old-school one, who got her experience on barely-functional mining equipment), who got his message, asks him why he didn’t send any more detail with his message. The modern tech admits, embarrassed, that SOS is the only Morse he knows. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/156 "2021-01-29T22:18:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > is stranded far from civilization, and manages to rig up something that he can use to send pulses… and so sends “SOS” repeatedly until rescue shows up. Funny, the TV Tropes page mentioned Harry Harrison’s _Spaceship Medic_ , but not Deathworld II, which basically has the same plot point you just posted. A stranded spacefairer rigs up a transmitter on a primitive planet to send out an SOS. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/157 "2021-01-29T23:02:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Cyber-arms and the like are trivial effects even a novice cosplayer can manage. That can’t be the reason. There is a bit of a difference between the quality and functionality needed for cosplay versus what is required for a cinematic prop, and a cosplay maker who can build a prehensile appendage that can actually function should probably quit their day job and start a prosthetics company. It is more likely the show portrays technology as it does because the role playing game the novels stemmed from didn’t have such technology available to the characters. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![eburacum\_45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum_45/32/3385_2.png) [@eburacum\_45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum_45)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/158 "2021-01-29T23:05:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They used “Radium” rifles, “radium” here being a unstable material but not actually radium. ‘Radium’ was already being used as a science-fiction label for a powerful material before the Curies adopted it as a name for their discovery. In 1897 Frank M. Close used ‘radium’ as the name of a material which emitted ‘apergy’, a strange kind of anti-gravity (like cavorite). > **[Anti-gravity | Apergy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-gravity#Apergy)** > > Apergy is a fictitious form of anti-gravitational energy first described by Percy Greg in his 1880 sword and planet novel Across the Zodiac. > John Jacob Astor IV used it in his 1894 science fiction novel A Journey in Other Worlds. Jack London describes it as "the hypothetical existence of a force, the converse of gravitation, which Astor has named 'apergy,'" in his short story entitled "A Thousand Deaths," first published in The Black Cat in 1899. > Apergy can also be found in an 1896 article, "So... I imagine Burroughs still considered that the term ‘radium’ could be used to justify a wide range of bullshit, just like the terms ‘vibranium’ and ‘adamantium’ are used in the comics. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/159 "2021-01-29T23:10:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The other telecom tech (an old-school one, who got her experience on barely-functional mining equipment), who got his message, asks him why he didn’t send any more detail with his message. The modern tech admits, embarrassed, that SOS is the only Morse he knows. Ha, yeah, that would be me, except I can’t even remember which letter is three longs and which is three shorts, so my rescuer would probably show up asking “what the heck does ‘OSO’ mean?” ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532/160 "2021-01-29T23:17:27Z")
Protip: Morse code for SOS is not SOS, SOS, SOS, SOS. It’s SOSOSOSOSOSOSOSOS… So it doesn’t matter which one you start with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bad-science-fiction-trope/931532.md?page=9)